Quick and easy money saver!

[PiddleMouse]

I think this will fit in well in this section, will move it if not?
Anyway, thought this worth sharing, although I can not take credit for this smart little idea, I saw it elsewhere.
Those testing strips as we all know are really expensive for what you get, but a guy online shared this way of getting double your money's worth.
My wobbly hands don't allow for neat cutting as you can see, but you will get the idea!
I always do this now, so hope it saves some of you a few bob also

 

[ian_m]

Nice idea, just requires the fact the test strips work, which for planted & freshwater tanks, they don't.

Save money and buy plants and fish, there is absolutely no point in wasting money (x 2 !!) in attempting to measure something that can't be accurately measured and doesn't need to be measured anyway.

 

[Smells Fishy]

Nice idea, just requires the fact the test strips work, which for planted & freshwater tanks, they don't.

How did you come across this info?

 

[Zeus.]

How did you come across this info?

Its in many threads and the basis of EI dosing, dont test and waste your money. I dont test anything. except pH to measure the relative [CO2]

 

[PiddleMouse]

Nice idea, just requires the fact the test strips work, which for planted & freshwater tanks, they don't.

Save money and buy plants and fish, there is absolutely no point in wasting money (x 2 !!) in attempting to measure something that can't be accurately measured and doesn't need to be measured anyway.

Well there you go, that is another important thing I have learned from being here, thank you ian-m! I am a little confused though, how will I know that my water is safe and comfortable for my axi please? Is there a better way to check, or is it a case of keeping the tank clean and doing partial water changes? I live in a hard water area if that helps

 

[PiddleMouse]

How did you come across this info?

I found it on a youtube video I think... was a while back. Not found it here sorry, am still finding my way around and getting used to the best way to word things in the search function. Am happy for it to be deleted if it's a bit of a 'waste of space' post, although I would like to copy and save the information I've been given as a result of it if that's ok please

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I am a little confused though, how will I know that my water is safe and comfortable for my axi please? Is there a better way to check, or is it a case of keeping the tank clean and doing partial water changes? I live in a hard water area if that helps

There are ways of estimating water status which use the health and growth of a floating (non-CO2 limited) plant.

You can also get values for your tap water from your water supplier, these will be accurate but you need to look at the maximum and minimum values, as well as the mean.

This is for <"PR8 1AA">.

Have a look at <"a simple and continuous....."> and <"questions about ....."> for some more discussion of water testing.

cheers Darrel

 

[ian_m]

Most hobby grade test kits suffer from poor accuracy, poor repeatability and interference from other ions.

Lab grade test kits like these do work (up to a point provided not too many other interfering ions), but at £100 per kit, you soon see why EI was invented to negate the need to test water.
https://uk.hach.com/nitrate-test-kit-model-ni-11/product?id=26427780260&callback=pf

how will I know that my water is safe and comfortable for my axi please

With new tank, wait say 6 weeks no plants maybe less if planted you will be fine to go. Could test for ammonia, (0 when cycled) but again interference from dechlorinators and/or high nitrate levels (if EI dosing) make testing a moot point.

 

[tam]

The opinion on them will depend who you talk to. Generally the dip tests aren't considered particularly accurate compared to the liquid tests, and the liquid tests not particularly accurate compared to laboratory tests.

Some people (particularly those with planted tanks following EI dosing and doing 50% weekly water changes) won't test their water at all. They rely on the fact anything in the water is reduced by 50% each time and therefore it stays reasonably clean and reasonably stable.

However, if you go chat with people who mainly keep fish rather than plants, you'll find more interest in testing. If you aren't changing 50% water a week, have a high fish load, or don't have lots of plants it may be more important to you.

Personally, I think testing is ok as long as you understand that the results aren't always 100%. For example, a nitrate test kit will give you a rough idea of where your nitrate is - is it super high, medium or low but don't expect it to be accurate to 1ppm. If your nitrate is going up every time you test, you might want to increase your water changes.

Knowing your initial GH and KH is helpful, as it can help you pick livestock that suits your hardness or adjust you water if you are catering to something fussy over hardness e.g. to raise a low GH for some shrimp species.

PH is less important for fish than the amount of attention it's often given. It can be useful to test for in a tank with CO2 though. Generally I've found the strips not particularly accurate at reading it though. If you were having a problem in your tank, checking for a dropping PH would be a good idea as that can signal a tank going downhill from 'old tank syndrome' (lack of cleaning/water changes).

Generally, unless you are cycling a tank, ammonia and nitrite aren't an issue and even less so in a planted tank. If you are cycling without plants (or just a few slow growers) then yes, test for them. You need to see ammonia and nitrite disappear and nitrate showing up.

 

[alto]

Test strip technology works just fine (data is constantly quality control checked via alternate testing methods, also with known test "standard" samples) in urinalysis, blood, soil, water sampling, food safety applications ...

I wonder what it is about the complex nature of aquarium water that renders this technology invalid




My personal guess would be user error rather than sudden catastrophic failure of technology


In the OP's example, fingerprints (& accompanying residues) must be kept off chemical pads, scissors need to be clean & dry & sharp, any strips that have been handled should not be returned to the original container but stored separately, strips need to be stored in sealed containers, once opened shelf life is limited (as with most testing solutions), storage conditions will also affect (testing) chemicals & storage life ...

sometimes I just can't resist these threads

 

[alto]

Is there a better way to check, or is it a case of keeping the tank clean and doing partial water changes?

This is absolutely the best way to look after your 'axi'


The only 'waste of space' query is the one unasked, forums exist to facilitate discussion

 

[ian_m]

I wonder what it is about the complex nature of aquarium water that renders this technology invalid

Test strips are fine for say nitrate dissolved in distilled water, maybe at a stretch for tap water.

Where the issue occurs is cross reading due to other (unknown ions) that are more than likely present in a fish tank.

I think nitrate test strips can be affected by presence of chloride.

Ammonia kits are certainly affect by presence of dechlorinators.

KH test kits can be affected by organic acids.

Issue is you don't know what else is in your tank and also how it will affect the testing. Different manufacturers test strips behave differently.

The three measurements you get reasonably reliably are

• Drop checker, as it is isolated from tank water not affected by salts/ions in tank.
• pH probe (not test strip/kit). Handy for CO2 users for getting CO2 levels right.
• TDS (total dissolved solids). Basically electrical conductivity. Useful for more demanding shrimp and fish that prefer lower TDS water.

Anyway you get a reading from test kit....then what ??? What will a reading make you do ? So KH is high...then what ???/

 

[alto]

Test strips are fine for say nitrate dissolved in distilled water, maybe at a stretch for tap water.

You do realize that test strip technology has been used in hospital analysis for more than 20 years with urine & blood samples


Also that for each chemistry analysis there are known interfering compounds & detection limits etc - it really is science

 

[Edvet]

You do realize that test strip technology has been used in hospital analysis for more than 20 years with urine & blood samples

And with special color readers to get any decent reading. And as far as i know only urine with these strips. We used to use a strip for urea in blood, but that was very coarse. Nowadays i use a machine to read all those blood colorimetric test, just 10000 € approximately with tests that cost about 5-10 euro's each slide. Not sure that compares

 

[ian_m]

You do realize that test strip technology has been used in hospital analysis for more than 20 years with urine & blood samples

Yes, but they work with known levels of interfering salts/ions/chemicals unlike your fish tank where the levels of interfering salts/ions/chemicals is unknown.

 

[alto]

In order for aquarium water to be compatible with livestock, these (possible) interfering compounds need occur beneath certain threshold values ... the chemical methodology used in commonly available testing kits is extensively documented

My fish tanks run pretty close to my tap water parameters as I change water at least weekly, so no real surprises there

I suppose in a walstead method tank (potential soil borne contaminants in addition to accumulated remnants of fish life & food & plant life) with no water changes performed over years, exceptional conditions & compounds might certainly occur ...


Note that selective ion & pH probe membranes are also subject to interference & calibration drift

As an example, my tap water is very soft, as I'm not wanting to run my aquarium with a background level of 0.1M NaCl, cheap pH probes are useless & I've not keen enough to buy the (least expensive) $600 pH probe (+ meter) in order to have accurate, precise pH measurements ... those test kits & strips are just fine with the pH 6ish estimate

Of course I could remove sufficient water from my aquarium, add appropriate concentration NaCl, then measure ... but that's rather more effort than my inclination, and I'd still be making assumptions about possible interfering compounds - just as with the test kits

 

[alto]

Not sure that compares

Fortunately my aquarium water doesn't compare well with blood or urine (or even soil & food samples) either

 

[PiddleMouse]

Hi all, There are ways of estimating water status which use the health and growth of a floating (non-CO2 limited) plant.

You can also get values for your tap water from your water supplier, these will be accurate but you need to look at the maximum and minimum values, as well as the mean.

This is for <"PR8 1AA">.

Have a look at <"a simple and continuous....."> and <"questions about ....."> for some more discussion of water testing.

cheers Darrel

Thank you so much!

 

[PiddleMouse]

Thank you everyone for the fascinating and conflicting opinions! They've certainly given me plenty to think about, and plenty of avenues (streams ) to investigate! I do like a good variety of opinions, tunnel vision can block out so many important things that could be so important. Much appreciated!

 

[sciencefiction]

It's good to know your general water stats, pH, KH, GH, etc... but you can get that from your water company report. If your KH is low, non-existent, you may have to take measures. If not, then these become irrelevant too, and are only a guide to use when selecting fish.
If the tank is cycled, ammonia and nitrite testing becomes irrelevant.
So we are left with nitrate. Nitrate is the most unreliable test of all the rest, as a few have already mentioned. It may show 10ppm, 20ppm, who knows the exact value..However, what is unreliable about it, is that low nitrate does not guarantee you a healthy water. It is just one of many things accumulating in a tank. Some years back I did not do water changes for 5-6 months on a heavily planted tank. My nitrate test was barely turning colour. My fish however, were not happy one bit....
The only way you can ensure your water is as healthy as can be, is by doing regular, minimum once a week, large water changes....Ignore everything else. Ignore testing, just keep doing water changes. If the tank is planted, even better.

A fish tank environment is completely different than a laboratory environment. For example, nitrifying bacteria in laboratory conditions stops "working" in pH below 6.6. In fish tanks, and in nature this is not the case. And there is no clear scientific explanation why that is...