Question | Could a plant's routes bust out the sealant on my tank? Echinodurus Cordifolius

[Stubbo]

So in my 300l tank, I've got an emergent Echinodurus Cordifolius that from base of the tank to top of plant leaves is now 1.5m in height. It's roots have pretty much made a mat of half my substrate (the sand doesn't move and planting into it is hard because of all the routes within it). Substrate is 3" thick.

Along the edges of the glass at the base, I can see it's roots travelling along the edges of the tank.

My question is, given it's got massive (when I set the tank up it was emergent, but about half that size), is there any danger of it 'bursting' out of the tank in the way plants are able to grow into concrete and ultimately bust through it? The seal and tank were all brand new when I got the tank, but is there any risk? Getting it out would be the thing of nightmares. and if I cut it out I assume it would have horrible decay from the roots left behind in the tank substrate.

Thanks for any guidance.

 

[Tim Harrison]

It is possible

Paludarium / tartarium glass thickness

So. Turtle terrariums, aka tartariums, seem like fantastic starting points for making a paludarium or riparium. However, both the Ciano and the Exo Terra ones seem to have really thin glass, at 3-4mm thickness. I checked their dimensions on the aquarium glass thickness calculator and they'd need...

www.ukaps.org

 

[tam]

No idea, but if you were concerned, rather than attempting to remove the whole thing, you could remove any major roots around the perimetre (silicone joints). Depending on the tank/growth, that could just mean sliding a credit card down the glass (carful to avoid scratches) and pushing back - the roots will move back and then let the substrate shift back in place. If it's already too dense, try using a pair of scissors to cut in the line through the substrate an inch in (whilst syphoning to catch debries) then sift through the substrate to remove what you can - you could do it in stages to limit potential issues with decay/disturbance. If you repeated semi regularly you'd just be trimming tiny new growth off as it tried to regrow so won't be a bad as the first time.

 

[rockpaper]

Just personal experience, but my friend's house required a $10,000 repair when plant roots widened a water-but-not-air tight crack in a steel pipe, eventually weakening it until it burst. I've also seen potted plants with aggressive roots pierce straight through cheap plastic (tupperware style) pots. I don't think a silicone seal would be a challenge for some plants... but, in each of those cases, the plant had a good reason to try and "escape", and plenty of plants tolerate being root-bound just fine (or even like it).

This guy (apistomaster) wrote about Echinodorus in the context of a fertilization question, but he mentions that they don't tend to mind being root bound as long as they have enough fertilization. Darrel quotes the following from the first link on this thread:

Echinodorus are heavy feeders. Assuming you have enough of the right lighting, the best thing you can do is put Echinodorus in pots. I use clear plastic containers and no holes.If the pots have holes in them then the roots will intrude into the surrounding substrate. I mostly use clear plastic juice container bottoms. I cut them to about 3-1/2 to 4 inches high. Use a good plant substrate and substrate time release fertilizer. It makes a world of difference. I conceal the pots by burying them in the surrounding substrate.When plants are potted thusly then they have exclusive access to all the fertilizer. The root systems are contained so they are never disturbed during any gravel vacuuming and one can relocate the plants without causing any transplant shock. I've grown huge Echinodorus bleheri and other large Echinodorus species in relatively small containers. The pots often become root bound but it doesn't seem to hinder growth of well fertilized plants. I never use fertilizers in the water column. What's the point of flushing them from the tank as one will do if you are making the large and frequent water changes discus need to thrive?

Still... if it were me, I think I'd be making mid-to-long-term plans to "re-pot" the thing or dispose of it entirely. tam's suggestion would definitely stave off the problem for a while, I think.

 

[bazz]

I seem to remember @zozo encountered this problem but I cannot find the thread and it's also possible I maybe incorrect (old age).

 

[Tim Harrison]

@bazz 🙂

It is possible

Paludarium / tartarium glass thickness

So. Turtle terrariums, aka tartariums, seem like fantastic starting points for making a paludarium or riparium. However, both the Ciano and the Exo Terra ones seem to have really thin glass, at 3-4mm thickness. I checked their dimensions on the aquarium glass thickness calculator and they'd need...

www.ukaps.org

 

[Stubbo]

Hmmm. Sounds like I might be best to get it out out....never a good time to come find 300l on the floor, and who doesn't love the chance to do a full rescape! Looks like a whole weekend Project at some point in the not too far off future. Might tray and convert it to a house plant and see if can maintain it out of water.

Sounds like 'breadknife' the roots as far round as possible without going near the tank edges and then try and have it out...then sift the sand away from it to remove the fibrous root masse. Hopefully the mesh I use to separate the soil layer from the sand layer doesn't get ripped to the surface in the process.

Not fun, but again all better than 300l on the floor of my office, and myriad dead fish. Thanks all.

 

[bazz]

@bazz 🙂

Doh!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Sounds like I might be best to get it out out

I think you are fine, <"there are a lot of roots"> on an Echinodorus sp., but they are quite soft.

In Marcel's (@zozo ) case the plant was a very large, established <"Cyperus sp.">, which produce very hard lateral rhizomes as they grow.

cheers Darrel

 

[Stubbo]

Here's the roots in my substrate near the edge as an example, and the plant itself.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

and the plant itself.

Wow, that is fantastic.

cheers Darrel

 

[Stubbo]

Thanks @dw1305 ...but you think no cause for concern given the nature of the root type?

 

[simon_the_plant_nerd]

That’s a spectacular plant.

 

[Stubbo]

That’s a spectacular plant.

Thanks! I'd be loathe to remove it (guess would try and grow it in another container) but also want to make sure it doesn't destroy the whole tank! It seems to like the nutrient rich substrate (it was setup as a Father Fish style tank) as well as the window sky light directly above.

Got lots of little baby plants growing on the flower stems now too.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

but you think no cause for concern given the nature of the root type?

Basically "yes", but to a small degree "no". I'd be a lot more concerned about a Cyperus, Nymphaea or Nelumbo etc., but I probably would have a small amount of concern that the plant would eventually place some strain on the glass, not so much from the root, but from the increasing girth of the plant.

...... seems to like the nutrient rich substrate .... as well as the window sky light directly above.

I'm guessing that is the "magic".

Got lots of little baby plants growing on the flower stems now too.

I would try and grow one of these on as an eventual replacement.

cheers Darrel

 

[si walker]

Wow. I can see why you are concerned.
You wait for all the questions about your Co2 distribution and what fertilisers you are using. Its going to happen!

Keep us updated please.

Si

 

[simon_the_plant_nerd]

Wow. I can see why you are concerned.
You wait for all the questions about your Co2 distribution and what fertilisers you are using. Its going to happen!

Keep us updated please.

Si

The skylight directly above and the access to atmospheric CO2 is probably contributing to its massive growth. Once my Echinodorus broke the surface, it’s been growing on fast forward.