Problems with the scientific name in aquatic plant industries

[Nont]

Hi guys,

I’ve been collecting Echinodorus for a year now. And I’ve just recently realised that many my plants doesn’t match any scientific descriptions.
After I read a lot of post on Flowgrow and asking questions on Aqua planta facebook group. I’ve realised that there is some problems with how different nurseries and seller labels their plants especially Echinodorus and those in the Aroid family. Here are some of the example:

E. floribundus - sold as grandiflorus.
E. macrophyllus - probably not a real one since the appearance doesn’t match the one in Bonito.
E. muricatus - A plant with the synonym of E. floribundus, but isn’t.
E. palifolius - often sold with the name E. argentinensis/rigidifolius/rangeri which is a synonym of other plant.
Tropica’s E. cordifolius ‘Fluitans’ - is not a cordifolius, but related to E. longiscapus.

And there are hundreds more plants sold with the mislabeled name. It seems like they know what they’re doing especially with rare and expensive plants.

How do you feel about this and Is it something you guys have experienced before, if so which plants?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

And there are hundreds more plants sold with the mislabeled name. It seems like they know what they’re doing especially with rare and expensive plants.

How do you feel about this and Is it something you guys have experienced before, if so which plants?

It has been a real problem in the <"Horticultural Industry for many years">.

With terrestrial plants they tend to flower, which means that wrong ID's are more likely to be corrected, but with aquatic plants a lot are wrongly named, and <"unless they flower"> (or produce capsules if they are a bryophyte) those names are likely to remain.

The same applies to selling a common plant as a much rarer plant (at a different price point), sometimes it is a genuine mistake, often it is a <"deliberate attempt at deception">.

cheers Darrel

 

[hypnogogia]

I came across confusion of names for Java moss - in some places its classified as Taxiphyllum, and in others as vesicularia.

 

[tigertim]

Yup it's just as bad with Cryptocorynes, companies selling plants under the names of Mehlmannii and Bullosa when they are just variants of the common Wendtii and the adding of fancy names to a plant in a effort to push sales like with all the varients of Nurii or Affinis that are knocking around.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I came across confusion of names for Java moss

I'd guess that very few of the mosses in cultivation <"are correctly named">.

in some places its classified as Taxiphyllum, and in others as vesicular.

Traditionally it was thought to be Vesicularia dubyana, but it is probably <"Taxiphyllum barbieri">. Because it doesn't produce capsule submersed (I'm not sure about emersed, some mosses rarely "fruit" in any conditions) even that name is just a "best guess".

cheers Darrel

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi Everyone!

This is an eye-opener, to say the least. Is there no definitive reference to which we can turn to obtain the true/correct identity of aquatic plants? What about Christel Kasselmann's Aquarium Plants book?

JPC

 

[Simon Cole]

How do you feel about this and Is it something you guys have experienced before, if so which plants?

Yes, all the time. Two most costly and disappointing were probably:
Riccardia chamedryfolia (aka coral moss) - received Riccia Fluitans (aka crystalwort moss).
Eleocharis Montevidensis - received Elocharis Vivipara.
Misidentification like this is very hard to understand. I don't mind "fancy" names like @tigertim suggests, but I would suggest that deception is both very deliberate and fairly unavoidable. I have often wondered whether it would be worth the space to start a collection. I have always felt that collectors are incredibly valuable to the community. In many ways, it is plant genetic diversity that will suffer if we rely too heavily upon commercial producers.

 

[Nont]

Is there no definitive reference to which we can turn to obtain the true/correct identity of aquatic plants? What about Christel Kasselmann's Aquarium Plants book?

Yes, there are some in her book.

I would say that the one that help me buying correct plants is Flowgrow, take a look at this one.

Another one is Aqua Planta facebook page, I recently ask couple of questions about crypt and identifying echinodorus, and I got some replies from the expert Heiko Muth and Niels Jacobsen.

With terrestrial plants they tend to flower, which means that wrong ID's are more likely to be corrected, but with aquatic plants a lot are wrongly named, and <"unless they flower"> (or produce capsules if they are a bryophyte) those names are likely to remain.

I realised this, it seems to be issues as well in the “species observation website” like Inaturalist, where millions of misidentified aquatic plants observations turn into a research grade.

 

[hypnogogia]

I would say that the one that help me buying correct plants is Flowgrow

Even that site uses a different Latin name for Java Moss than das Christel Kasselman’s excellent book.

Traditionally it was thought to be Vesicularia dubyana,

That’s what it’s called in Christine Kasselman’s book.

 

[hypnogogia]

Traditionally it was thought to be Vesicularia dubyana,

That’s what it’s called in Christine Kasselman’s book.

 

[PARAGUAY]

Pearlweed different scientific names depending on the supplier also described as medium difficulty and easy. How do these changes happen somebody present a thesis or study paper? Seems as well a lot changes to fish classifications thinking Gouramis, had the well known scientific names for years suddenly reclassified.

 

[Simon Cole]

How do these changes happen somebody present a thesis or study paper?

To the best of my knowledge, changes tend need to be accepted into the <International Plant Names Index (IPNI)>.

 

[hypnogogia]

also described as medium difficulty and easy

There’s probably no common accepted calibration between different plant nurseries for this hence the inconsistency,

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

How do these changes happen somebody present a thesis or study paper? Seems as well a lot changes to fish classifications thinking Gouramis, had the well known scientific names for years suddenly reclassified.

A lot of it is on DNA basis now. If a genus is <"paraphyletic"> it will be split and the old / new genus names will depend on which species was described first and is the type species for that genus. In ornamental fish the <"genus Corydoras"> is going to split into six or seven, but with Brochis sp. and Aspidoras pauciradiatus being subsumed into some part of the Corydoras genus complex.

cheers Darrel

 

[Nont]

Out of curiousity, how did they choose which plants is in the same family for example; duckweed is in the family Araceae, Hydrocleys in Alismataceae. The same question goes for Order, Is it all DNA analysis or just the similarity of their structure?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The same question goes for Order, Is it all DNA analysis or just the similarity of their structure?

Originally on floral structure, this goes <"right back to Linnaeus">, and we now know that he did remarkably well. Jerry Coyne's book <"Why evolution is true"> is a good start of you want some reading material? The problem then is sorting out convergent evolution from actual relatedness. <"Bird pollinated flowers"> are a perfect example of convergent evolution and the mammalian limb a perfect example of <"divergent evolution from a common ancestor">.

duckweed is in the family Araceae

It is difficult when a plant has very reduced floral structure, but you may have <"intermediate species"> and / or <"other unique characteristics">.

cheers Darrel

 

[zozo]

All those people in the aquatic plant trade should definitively go on a "Bog Pimpernel" diet.

Till up to medieval times in mainland Europe, maybe even in England, the plant had the common name 'Guichelheil' or 'Gauchheil'.
'Guichel' and 'Gauch' both mean 'Madness' and 'Heil' is 'To Heal'. Thus 'To heal madness'.

Maybe we should go on this diet too, to get over this melancholic plant-naming problem.
The scientific name "Anagallis tenellus" is Greek and it means "To Laugh Again tenderly" and they used it to cure melancholy.

It might only work with a placebo effect, but that's worth something too... And next to that it's an adorable little plant to grow, looking at it alone already makes you happy again.

 

[Nont]

Jerry Coyne's book <"Why evolution is true"> is a good start of you want some reading material?

That’s an interesting one, this reminds me that I used to own a book with beautiful illustration of natural selection and evolution. Speaking of that, am I the only one here who question existence everytime I read something about this topic?

Maybe we should go on this diet too, to get over this melancholic plant-naming problem.
The scientific name "Anagallis tenellus" is Greek and it means "To Laugh Again tenderly" and they used it to cure melancholy.

It might only work with a placebo effect, but that's worth something too... And next to that it's an adorable little plant to grow, looking at it alone already makes you happy again.

Never heard that one before, does it has a submersed form?

 

[zozo]

Never heard that one before, does it has a submersed form?

It's quite a rare plant in nature in Europe, in my country it's on the red list due to loss of habitat. Some pond shops or garden centres might offer a cultivated variety. That's also how I got a hold of it, it's also a very delicate plant that withers away quite easily and fast if requirements are not met. If grown in boggy conditions indoors under high light and ample fertilization it goes semi-emerged/submerged, it grows both forms from the same plant/root probably able to aid each other with sufficient CO² supply. Grew it for some years indoors as an evergreen very well in an open top, but never got it to flower.

Exclusively submerged? Could be with ample CO² and light, but I probably didn't have either of them and never managed to grow it this way, so don't actually know. Also, I can't give a number of lumens or PAR to get it to flower indoors. You definitely would need a lot of light.

Outdoors in a very sunny spot, it will do very well, but still, it might struggle to survive a winter and might not revive the year after depending on how cold the winter was.

 

[waterlily_fan]

How do you feel about this and Is it something you guys have experienced before, if so which plants?

Oh yes, it is very annoying and unfortunate. I was very happy to have purchased a rare waterlily, but then it turned out to be a mislabelled Nymphoides.