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Possible EI Micro Mix Product?

Stitch

Stitch

Member
Joined
21 Aug 2012
Messages
89
Location
Dubai
Guys,

I'm struggling to purchase CSM+B locally.

Do you think this would be suitable?
photo2pl.jpg


Based on these ratios could I just dose as normal CSM+B?

Sorry, I'm very new to EI dosing.

Thanks
 
Hi, I know these products are available via mail order but I am currently living in the Middle East - Dubai.

It would be too difficult to bring in powders and have to explain to customs etc.

Based on this, does anyone think the above would be suitable? Are the element percentages/ratios of CSM+B known and could be compared?
 
Yes this product is fine. EI does not care about brand names. Use whatever is available.

Cheers,
 
ceg4048 said:
Yes this product is fine. EI does not care about brand names. Use whatever is available.

Cheers,
Click to expand...
Would he double dose that trace Clive?
hoggie
 
As Ceg says.

Just work out how much to add to reach fe target level. If dosing EI you want around 0.5ppm fe.

I'm sure one of the chemists on this site would work out how many mg per 100L of granules you would need to add.

At a guess i would say somewhere around 600mg per 100l but you need to check :D
 
Hi guys,

Thanks for the reassuring replies.

What is the best way to work out the ppm levels of the elements?

Is there a formula or is it more of a test and see, using liquid tests? If using a liquid test when is the best time to test? Shortly after dosing?
 
Well I reckon anyone using a hobby grade test kit for Fe is daft. Test kits are not going to tell you anything you can't figure out with a calculator. As Hoggie alludes to, most micro mixes have a 10% Fe content. This mix is only 5%, which is not really a big deal, just add twice as much in your recipe if you really feel the need or if you see chlorosis in the leaves.

Most of the powders weigh about 6 grams (6000 milligrams) per teaspoon. So if you have a 100L tank and you dump a teaspoon of this stuff in the tank you will at least have (0.05)*(6000mg)/100L = 3ppm. If you are dosing micros twice a week then dosing half a teaspoon twice a week will accomplish the same. Most EI recipes call for only 1ppm Fe per week so you could dose 1/3 teaspoon per week on a 100L tank, or, 1/6th teaspoon twice per week.

This assumes 100% solubility in water, which you may not have, but it also assumes 100L of water in a 100L tank which you don't have either, so it all comes out in the wash. Don't waste money on an Fe test kit. That's the worst path you can tread.

Cheers,
 
Cheers Clive, that makes sense.

The EI document here mentions 0.5ppm per week so I can calculate this now : http://www.ukaps.org/EI.htm

Could you please help show me how to work out the following:
Nitrate (NO3) 20ppm per week
Potassium (K) 30ppm per week
Phosphate (PO4) 3ppm per week
Magnesium (Mg) 10ppm per week

I'm purchasing Potassium Nitrate, Monopotassium Phosphate and Magnesium Sulphate.

Sorry for being dumb but how can you tell the percentages of elements in these powders? eg: percentage of K in KNO3 and KH2PO4? or Mg in MgSO4 etc?
 
Yes, you can use the calculator listed on the link hoggie provided. In any case, if you read the article, two paragraphs down from where you extracted those ppm values it tells you exactly how to achieve it for any size tank. Your 112 USG tank is about 6 times bigger than the reference 20G so just multiply the numbers shown in that subsequent paragraph by 6 and round to the nearest sensible fraction. On that tank you could easily dump 1 teaspoon of KNO3 + 1/2 teaspoon Potassium Phosphate 3X per week. Then, add 1/2 teaspoon of your Emerites trace mix 2X per week on alternate days. Depending on how hard your water is you can toss anywhere from 1/2 teaspoon to 1 teaspoon of Epsom Salt either 3X per week or throw the whole weeks supply in after the water change.

You then have to observe your plants. There are so many things that can go wrong which will affect how well the plants are able to utilize these nutrients. Poor flow or poor distribution, or excessive lighting can have adverse effects on nutrient uptake, so monitor the plants for deficiencies and make adjustments from there.

It's not that hard to figure out the ppm from the amounts you add, but only true geeks or anoraks really care. If you're one of those types then let me know and I'll walk you through it. Most people just use the calculators or the simple ratio that I just used and throw the powders in the tank in the easiest way possible. The method was made to be simple, not to be a tester or mathematician.

Cheers,
 
Clive / Hoggie, cheers for the replies and help with the calculations.

These make sense and i'm going to give it a go. No need for the walk-through on the exact ppm calculations for now :)

Can you please help me understand why Magnesium Sulphate is used? Is it just to harden the water? If so, why is this important?

My tap water is higher than 7.6 pH (my max value of the test) with a KH of 2 and a GH of 3. However this drops to 6.2 pH with KH 1 and GH 2, possibly due to CO2 and my ADA Amazonia soil?

I'm guessing i'll need Magnesium Sulphate but the calculators are saying nearly 9 tsps a week. I just want to double check as this sounds a lot.

Finally, I have 4 x 54 watt T5 Daylight bulbs. Hoggie has already recommended a light period of 6 hours but should I run all 4 bulbs at once or do:
2 hours : back 2 bulbs
2 hours : all 4 bulbs
2 hours : front 2 bulbs

I know it will take some time to get this right but i'd like any helpful pointers to get me started.

Thanks.
 
Lighting
I would do
2 hours : back 2 bulbs
2 hours : all 4 bulbs
2 hours : front 2 bulbs
All aquariums are unique so its best to start easy on the lighting...it will cause you problems if you use the full lighting system...in a new set-up.
hoggie
 
foxfish said:
I must of missed the bit about tank dimensions & C02 injection but, can I assume you have a pretty big & deep tank
Click to expand...
Yea through PM...450 litres a bit of a beast.
hoggie
 
Thanks guys, :thumbup:

Here's my current setup:
  • Juwel Rio 400 (450 litres) - 150cm x 55cm x 55cm I believe
    Juwel Jumbo Internal Filter (1000 litres per hour)
    Pressurised CO2 (5 kg I think)
    50mm Do!Aqua Ceramic Diffuser - below filter outflow which helps circulate the bubbles
I've started dosing (3 times week):
  • 1 tsp KN03
    1/2 tsp Monopotassium Phosphate
    3 tsp Magnesium Sulphate
Regarding the trace elements. The first one I mentioned is a no go. After mixing with water in a cup it turned into a thick black treacle mix. I experimented with more water but it was still dark brown when diluted so it's not going in the tank.

Instead i've found a product called Fetrilon Combi 2 which is a fine green powder and is a transluscent lime green when mixed - looks good.

Are these values ok? I notice it has a lot more Zinc. The copper is the same so that's good.
tracese.png


With trace elements are we only really worried about the Iron?
(0.04 * 6000mg) / 400 litres = 0.6ppm per tsp

So i'm guessing i'll just dose this 1/2 tsp twice a week.

Lighting will be reduced to 6 hours as recommended.

One final point, I'm starting to realise flow in the tank is very important. I'm going to stick with my internal filter for now and have been recommended by people here to look into adding some powerheads (http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=23040) hopefully then i'll be all set.

Please let me know if i've missed anything, still very new to this, only been keeping fish for 2 weeks :)

Can't wait to see my Limnophila aquatica start to thrive - my current favourite :D

Thanks again
 
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