• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

Please share your thoughts about my ph drop...

Here is a little update.

I've managed to get my Ph at 6.4 at lights on from 6.8 at co2 on. I was using Ista Max Mix large reactor before and the lowest I could get was 6.6. Now I added inline atomizer just before reactor and it's indeed some improvement. I could decrease bps while using atomizer and reactor together. When I was using reactor only I could not count bubbles in my slow motion recorder iphone app, it was so much bps. Now I went from 5bps to 6.5bps as for today but what concerns my is why going from 5 to 6.5 bps doesn't lower my Ph beyond 6.4? It stays there like rock... :-/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hi MikeJojo,

0.4 pH drop is not very much, it should be something more even with hard water... and 6.5 bps using an atomizer is a lot of CO2. It looks like you have to improve other aspects. What about improving the outlet position/system and maximize the flow all over the tank? Is there room for this?
A pic of your setup might help to have some clues...

Jordi
 
This is my setup.

yma4utuz.jpg

e7ypeqyj.jpg


I wondered if right outflow pipe end in shape of lily pipe would improve flow.

This is my filter setup in case if you want to have a look at it as well.

4evybury.jpg






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Can you see bubbles reaching the surface? Is the water misty while the co2 is on? How many hours before lights do you switch on the co2?
Not bad idea to experiment with the outflow... Try another position and then try a cheap DIY spraybar and test the pH drop again. In my case changing to a spraybar was a very significant change (although my hardscape was much more complex)

Another thing... Have you noticed variations in the bubble rate? This can be a leak... Brushing with soapy water in every potential leak place (from cylinder to outflow) should be enough to detect it.

Jordi
 
I see bubbles reaching surface and actually there is pretty much film a like made out of those tiny bubbles.

Water is misty during whole photoperiod and co2 is on 3hrs before lights.

I used to have diy spray bar but I cannot say if it was better. I went for single output just because it takes less space in tank.

Do you mean variation during a day or from day to day? As far as I know there was no leak when I checked it last time.

Thank you parotet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
http://www.prirodni-akvarium.cz/en/index.php?id=en_co2ph. Plenty of good information and a good example of pH readings according to different setups.

Good information but the second last sentence makes no sense, 'Aeration using an air stone has [despite the widespread myth] virtually no effect on CO2 degassing.'

This is precisely the solution I use to allow me to balance my co2 levels.

My DIY reactor gives me 100% co2 dissolution but because I'm using a canister and not a wet/dry filter my O2 saturation drops due to the small surface area of my tank (28L) and the fish aren't able to tolerate the level I need to get to for my drop checker to go green/yellow, so by lights off the fish are all at the surface. I then introduced an air stone at lights off to degas the co2 quickly and hopefully add some O2 before lights on again. I have been using a pH controller with my gas set at a level so that I go from 6.8-5.5 in two hours before lights on and the controller switches the gas off, but its not low enough to turn the drop checker green/yellow without the fish gasping. At a rate of injection to get that drop in the two hours before lights on, my solenoid was only ever open for about 3 hours total after lights on out of a 10 hour photoperiod, co2 degassed that slowly, add aeration at lights off and the pH climbed 0.5 in about an hour and fish became active again.

Cue aeration 24/7 and an increase in co2 injection rate (approx x3). Gas comes on same 2hrs before lights on and the pH rapidly drops from 6.8 to 6 in 15mins but due to the aeration it tails off and only finally makes it to 5.4 by the time the lights come on. This ensures the drop checker is the correct shade of green to be nearest the 30ppm level. To ensure that my off gassing rate and injection rate balance to keep me around 5.4 (the variance in my controller will close the solenoid at 5.31) I can either fiddle with my needle valve or adjust the amount of aeration, I did both. I added a flow clamp on the air line and dialled down the aeration injection first before I touched the needle valve on the co2, it was then a case of fine tuning both over a few days to get the sweet spot. I'm now using aeration with an air stone to control my off gassing and not touching the needle valve at all, I'm chewing through gas for the entire photoperiod without the solenoid being triggered to close.

So judging by my observed experience that's why that statement makes no sense to me. The air stone is increasing the area that my tank water can make contact with air beyond what my tanks surface area alone can without aeration. It is also providing a surface agitation, but not much more than my 900lph filter is putting out so my observed effects can't just be down to minor increases in surface agitation. The best method for aeration is a wet/dry filter, which is water crashing through an air interface. An air stone is air crashing through a water interface.

The key is to ensure you have enough O2 in the water relative to the amount of co2 you inject, then you can stop worrying about the fish and concentrate on making sure the plants get what they need. I needed to use more co2 to ensure I have enough O2 in my tank, crazy but true, but now the fish don't care!

My KH is probably close to zero, and I'm off the charts, but my pH drop still correlates to the charts.

:)
 
I totally agree... Also IMO good O2 levels during night and day are as important as CO2. In my case the water surface is much higher than yours. I use a spraybar and I began with a light rippling but I have noticed very good results when the rippling is much more significant (I can see microwaves) and all over the surface. I use a canister so it is the only way I have to ensure a high O2 exchange.

Jordi
 
Yeah the addition of extra O2 at night is crucial, before I used the airstone I was probably seeing the cumulative effect of O2 being used up at night and not being replaced quick enough during the day through photosynthesis, leading to an o2 shortfall by next lights on and by mid afternoon the fish are gasping after depleting the O2 relative to the amount of co2 being injected, even aerating only at night was not enough, gas transfer has to happen 24/7.

That's quite vigorous surface agitation, those large crested deep trough ripples will be adding a massive amount of additional surface area that water can be in contact with air.
 
So... I went for spray bar again and now I have much better flow around tank and also surface agitation is much more. Now there is a question. Before I used that single pipe outlet and Ph drop was from 6.8 to 6.4. Now using spray bar and having more surface agitation I'm degassing my water to the point that Ph goes from 7.6 to 6.8 at lights on. Ph drop is more significant but does it mean it's more Co2 in water than before? IMHO not really... I just degassed it more over night. Virtually I have the same amount Co2 dissolved in water right?

So what's the point of trying to achieve 1 Ph drop if it all depends on what's your starting Ph is?

Please clarify me on this.

Mike




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Hi Mike

Ph drop is more significant but does it mean it's more Co2 in water than before? IMHO not really
I agree with you. CO2 levels are very difficult to measure in a tank and pH drop is just a rough estimation. Moreover this pH readings can be different everyday (plants grow...), can be affected by other issues and are not probably that accurate (if you do not have a high quality pHmeter). Not an expert but nothing can be said regarding CO2 concentration just with this.

So what's the point of trying to achieve 1 Ph drop if it all depends on what's your starting Ph is?
Well... what this new pH drop is telling you is that you are degassing more your water column, which in my opinion is the optimal situation. The point is that this way you are stabilizing your CO2 levels at lights on (what your plants like, algae spores won't Bloom = stability) and your fish won't be so stressed. In other words you are reaching high Co2 levels combined with high O2 levels (folks do it like you, that is managing the gas exchange in the water surface, or using wet/dry filters). Now the point is to let this configuration run like this for a long time so plants' physiology can be re-adapted to this new situation and grow healthy.

Jordi
 
Thanks Jordi.

It seems pretty good then. It also means that probably I was injecting just right amount of co2 before achieving Ph 6.8-6.4 (depend on configuration) but drop was just little as there was still plenty co2 in water in the morning because not much degassed.

Here comes my statement of hope - my algae problem wasn't due to not enough co2 but to not enough circulation which I have now using spray bar. Fingers crossed this is it! :D

I felt hopeless before as I could not go lower than 6.4 to achieve nice Ph drop. I was in dead spot thinking, Man! You cannot gas more!


Mike


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Back
Top