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Please share your thoughts about my ph drop...

MikeJojo

Member
Joined
17 Oct 2013
Messages
78
Hi

Please share your thoughts about my Ph drop. I'm trying to eliminate any factors that gives me some algae. This time is Co2 and if enough is pumped in?

I know there is this idea of ideally having 1 degree Ph drop which tells you that you pump just right amount of Co2 but it is not always the case with high Kh right? :)

So my readings are as follow:

8 am - Ph 7.1 (Co2 on)
9 am - Ph 6.8
10 am - Ph 6.8
11 am - Ph 6.8
12 am - Ph 6.8
1 pm - Ph 6.6 (lights on)
2 pm - Ph 6.6
3 pm - Ph 6.6
4 pm - Ph 6.6
5 pm - Ph 6.6
6 pm - Ph 6.4 (Co2 off)
7 pm - Ph 6.5
8 pm - Ph 6.5 (lights off)

What do you think? I wonder if I could do anything to let me switch Co2 later and if I should switch Co2 at 5pm so Ph stay at 6.6.

My Kh is 12 and Gh is 18.

Regards

Mike
 
Seriously...if I had a £ for every time this was worried about:)... I have seriously hard water too, my pH drops from around 7.4 - 6.8/6.6 and I've had no issues whatsoever...I figure that so long as your drop checker is lime green with 4dKH solution at lights on till lights out there is no need to worry.
 
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I though so but in this aquatic world of unknowns everyone needs some second opinion :))) Looks that Co2 goes well.


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Forgot to say thanks :)


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I know it takes ages to get to Ph 6.6 at lights on but it's just my hard water I think. I use Ista Reactor and diffusion is really great. I was thinking about increasing rate, moving co2 on at 9-10am and see what drop that gives me. At the end switch co2 off earlier as well to keep up stable ph/co2 till lights off. How does that sound?


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Well I use good old London tap, which is hard water :) normally run my co2 on 2-3 hours before lights on and off 1-2 hours before lights off depending on tank and I always have a lime green d/c at lights on though this can be misleading if using inline atomisers IMO, reactors I've not used so can't comment, I believe making changes slowly whilst monitoring livestock is best to keep livestock happy, eventually you will hit that sweet spot. Try the increase in rate with the shorter injection period, just keep one eye on your livestock that's been my approach.
 
I have even a harder water than yours and I do the same as Tim does: co2 on 2 hours before lights on and co2 off one hour before lights off. I can hardly reach a pH drop of 1 unit, even now that I have optimized the diffusion using an inline atomizer, a spraybar all along the back of the tank and running the co2 at 3 bps... Just for a 65 liters, that looks like a lot of gas to most of people (I mean this bubble rate using an inline atomizer for such a small tank) but this way I can get a nice lime green from the very beginning of the light period. Nice surface rippling ensures that my fish are also happy with this setup.

Jordi
 
I've turned up bps but I'm still worried if my fish will be ok. Bps I have now is kind of safe limit when my fish do not gasp and go to the surface. Hopefully this time it will be better as I cleaned all hose, filter, aquarium and plants out off any algae. Cleaner water means more oxygen right? So maybe co2/o2 balance will be better now. Fingers crossed.

One more question. If I turned up bps my Ph will drop even more. What is safe limit? What ph you guys have at most Co2 concentration?



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You will have to test it by yourself. Each tank is different so it is impossible to tell if a particular setup will work.
Just watch carefully your fish... IME each time I though I had fine tuned my tanks there was still room for improvements, so do small changes and just see how it works.

Jordi
 
Parotet what's your lowest Ph during Co2 injection?


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Hi MikeJojo

I have managed to go from pH 7.1 to pH 6.2 and then keep it there during the light period. To get this 0.9 pH drop I've had to do a lot of improvements: adjust bps, change to spraybar, empty half of the canister media, switch on the co2 2 hours before light and even reorganize the hardware decoration in my tank that improved in a very relevant way the flow all over my tank. Every little detail is important. My water must be above kH above 15, probably more, but honestly never measured (i only use tap water and I got a significant limescale built up in about 3 days which can be only removed using a razor... Liquid rock!). The only test I made to my tap water was about total hardness (the washing machine technician forgot his water test at home) and the GH measured was 25. I live surrounded by limestone mountains.

Jordi
 
Don't worry about your ph going too low - my ph drops to about 5 during co2 injection. I have never had any problem with fish at this ph, in fact the opposite - they enjoy the low ph and I have had barbs and tetras spawn at lights on period when ph is lowest.
 
That sounds optimistic. Thanks Claire :)


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You need to read this table of CO2 ppm vs dKH (from here http://tropica.com/en/guide/make-your-aquarium-a-success/fertiliser-and-co2/)

CO2-tabel-med-ikoner_650_300x248.jpg


Thus with your dKH of 12 and aiming to get 30ppm CO2 you need a final pH 7.2.

However couple of major issues, your water is obviously not following this table due to other unknown causes, dead plants/fish, limestone, substrate etc. Also dKH test kits don't actually measure dKH but pH (alkalinity) and are prone to great error and even more compounded by your water, so measuring the pH & dKH is a leading you down the path to poor CO2, poor plants but probably great algae.

Just use a drop checker (like everyone else does) as that is completely isolated from all the goings on in the tank and will give you an accurate CO2 reading.

If you are using RO water that your have remineralised yourself, so are in control of water quality (and nothing in the tank eg limestone rock etc is liable to affect hardness) then pH measurement is a great way to determine CO2 level, but for all of use using tap water, drop checker is the correct way to do it.
 
I've increased my co2 and it's at 6.6 at lights on and 6.4 at lights off now. To achieve 6.4 through out whole photo period I assume I need set co2 on 1 hour earlier than it is now. Question - if I increase co2 a little bit more again would it start at 6.4 and stay at that level until lights off or it will probably go further down to 6.2?

I just wonder if the more concentration of co2 the more resistant ph is to change? What's your experience guys?

Mike


Forgot to mention that my co2 goes now on at 10am and off still at 5pm. That 3hrs delay of switching it on balanced increased injection I think. What will work better? Switching it on 9am to achieve desirable saturation at lights on or increasing co2 even more?
 
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Hi MikeJojo, theoretically I would be enough to switch the co2 two hours before lights on, even on very hard water. What I found is that it is a combination of several variables what makes your setup be fine tuned.
Have a look to this thread: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/...ys-green-and-aquasoil-any-relationship.30946/.This is a short version of how I managed to do it for my tank... You will be able to see that very small changes had sometimes significant results. In a few words, play with every little detail (improve flow, distribution, plants position, good o2/co2, etc.) and of course with the bubble rate. Nevertheless IMO bubble rate must be your last bullet. Try to optimize your setup with the rest of issues... Your fish will be safer and you will save a lot of gas.

Jordi
 
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Concerning the co2 concentration stability, there is a very interesting thread I cannot find discussing this issue. As fas as I remember Plantbrain explains how to achieve this stable co2 plateau using some figures as examples. Very interesting reading also about the importance of having both high co2 levels combined with high o2 levels (surface rippling, wet/dry filters)

Edit: Got it! Here's the one I mentioned: http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/co2-ph-level-in-planted-tank.26559/
And this is one of my favorite websites about planted tanks, done by a UKAPS' member: http://www.prirodni-akvarium.cz/en/index.php?id=en_co2ph. Plenty of good information and a good example of pH readings according to different setups.

Jordi
 
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