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Plants not happy - please help!

billiemackers

billiemackers

Member
Joined
31 Jul 2016
Messages
64
Location
Merseyside
Hello all,

The plants in my aquarium don't seem quite right. I set up this tank around August and all seemed to be gowing well, growth was good and the plants looked much better (taken a few months back)

DSC_7770.jpg



Since then, over the space of a week or so when I was away lots of the plants completely died back like the rotala and s. repens. I was amazed about how quickly things changed!

I felt like I was fighting a losing battle so decided 2 weeks ago to completely re arrange the tank, mainly to remove everything which wasn't doing well and start again with salvaged plants which looked healthy. I also got a more substantial filter at this point - the AquaClear 20/Fluval Edge HOB filter.

Initially, things looked good - the tank was much cleaner and things started growing well. But now it seems obvious that the plants aren't properly happy. Everything has a lime green / yellowish tinge to it:

Recently planted H. pinnatifida from an emersed plant that I kept growing on the windowsill. Looks ok for now?
DSC_7812.jpg


What's left of my S. repens. Growing back now, albeit a bit pale and battling with algae. This was growing great guns at the start of the 'project' and all of a sudden completely melted (some leaves developed black blotches). It's been struggling since:
DSC_7816.jpg


Rotala rotundifolia (which looks pale) and M. pteropus 'Phillipine' (courtesy of @zozo - thanks!). The java has grown quite a lot since I received it, but it's not right - look at those yellow tips.
DSC_7826.jpg

Pale rotala:
DSC_7833.jpg


What's left of my Crypt wendtii 'green'. New growth looks pale and deformed:
DSC_7810.jpg



After the re-shuffle:
DSC_7837.jpg


So basically I'm not sure how to improve things. I don't know if my water is too soft or I'm not providing enough iron/other nutrients, maybe the lighting is wrong? I was recently very tempted to buy the AZOO flexi mini light fixture after ready lots of good stuff about it (http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/azoo-flexi-mini-led-light-fixture.34679/).

I've read lots of things which I could try but have no idea really. Before I go down the road of buying more nutrients, changing the light / wasting my money I thought I'd ask to see if anyone who knows better what the problem is more likely to be and what a sensible way to improve things would be?

Here is some info about the setup:

Light: 6W Aquael Leddy Smart (on for 8 hours per day)
Filter: Fluval edge, usually on max flow. In media basket: 1x sponge,1 bag biomax,1 bag sintered glass.
Carbon: 1ml EasyLife EasyCarbo daily.
Ferts: Daily EasyLife Profito, standard recommended dose.
Substrate: Cal aqua labs black earth premium.
Water treatment for changes / top ups: API tap water conditioner, although have recently bought EasyLife fluid filter medium, not started using yet
Livestock: NONE
Tap water info:
waterinfo.JPG


Any help would be greatly appreciated. My basic question is - what should I do next?

Thanks a lot
 
I'm having a similar issues with dwarf hairgrass....I have the same tank as you but with the old florescent tube...however I inject Co2 and my lights aren't on for as long.

Are you going for the low tech approach?
Those plants seem to be relatively easy to grow however Co2 injection would make a huge difference.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
 
Hi, I don't plan on injecting CO2, no. I've seen several setups using the same plants that are low tech but are much happier than mine. From what I've been reading I was thinking it looks like some sort of nutrient deficiency, but may be wrong! That's why I started the thread really, I'm hoping that someone more experienced may be able to identify what the problem might be based on the pictures and info given.
 
tim said:
Profito doesn't contain a nitrogen or phosphorus source, could be lacking either of these, soft water shouldn't be an issue.
Click to expand...

Cheers Tim, I guess it would make sense to test the phosphorus and nitrogen levels in the water first then? Or I could get a fertiliser that covers all bases and try that?
 
billiemackers said:
Just read this about EI dosing http://www.ukaps.org/index.php?page=dosing-with-dry-salts

I was going to say I may go down that route, but as I don't inject CO2 as advised with this method perhaps it's not a good idea
Click to expand...
Hi billiemackers, EI is fine for low techs, just dose half or a third of recommended dose, as your using liquid carbon maybe start with half dose, also your light should be fine I used thee same light over the low tech in my signature, 40x40x30 tank.
 
Nice to read the little fern does well.. :thumbup:

I noticed the plants in my lowtech reacting very good to diy ferts.. Actualy no idea if i do EI or Retfield, but it is definitively inspired by this and kinda made my own version.

I use, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate and Trace Elements.. All in powder form and mix my own with demi water. I do not realy go by the numbers, just did a quick sum whit what's recomended is and add a mixture of 20ml all together a week with a 25% weekly water change a la Redfield to reset. In comparison with the ready made ferts i used before, plants did grow 50% more in 2 months time then they did the 10 previous months before the new strategy.. :) And this is without glut and around a pH 8 with 11kH, which is rather low in CO2..
 
zozo said:
Nice to read the little fern does well.. :thumbup:

I noticed the plants in my lowtech reacting very good to diy ferts.. Actualy no idea if i do EI or Retfield, but it is definitively inspired by this and kinda made my own version.

I use, Potassium Phosphate, Potassium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate and Trace Elements.. All in powder form and mix my own with demi water. I do not realy go by the numbers, just did a quick sum whit what's recomended is and add a mixture of 20ml all together a week with a 25% weekly water change a la Redfield to reset. In comparison with the ready made ferts i used before, plants did grow 50% more in 2 months time then they did the 10 previous months before the new strategy.. :) And this is without glut and around a pH 8 with 11kH, which is rather low in CO2..
Click to expand...

Hi Marcel,

Thanks for the info, I've just been reading about making a DIY fertiliser. I didn't realise but EL Profito just seems to cover the trace elements, instead of being a true all in one fert. I suspect my plants are all basically nutrient deficient in some way! Time to change things!

This looks like good value: http://www.co2supermarket.co.uk/all-in-one-macros-micros-fertiliser-aquarium-plants-p299.html

Can you see any cons from buying this as opposed to going down the DIY route? Making a DIY fert isn't actually as complicated as I thought, but if I can get all of the coumpounds mixed in one bag it will be initially cheaper than buying everything separately and weighing out myself. I can see it would be more economical long term, but as I only run one 30L cube, 250g of that dry fert will last me a long time! The only real negative I can see is that if I decide I want to increase potassium for example then I can't if everything is already pre-mixed.
 
It is hard to say if there are any cons, it all depends on how your tank/plants react to it.. If it is good, it is good.. :) That's trail and error.. I do not know if it is that much cheaper, no idea what you pay for all the other dry stuff.. The only pro i can think of with using micro and macro compounts seperately is to able to play with the dossage seperately as well.. Simple example if you need extra potassium it is easier to add just a bit more of that without adding more of the whole package as well. Same goes for micros of course..

If it is a must? I guess not, we have examples enough that there are many roads leading to The Garden of Eden...

Also takeinto consideration, tanks and especialy the substrate in it matures and in this maturing it changes propperties.. Despite adding ferts it stillt took me almost 8 months to get some crypts to grow a few milimeters. And all of a sudden 8 months later into the process they start to take off.. I guess this was the time the tank or plant needed to get everything on track and feel happy. It is hard to say how and why and when, every tank does that in it's own way. All we can do is add or substract and wait and see..
 
I made this up today at work (free ferts!) using calculations from http://www.aquariumcalculators.com/aquarium-plant-food/estimative-index/

Macro solution:

Start with 380 ml of water and add:-
47g Potassium Nitrate
13g Monopotassium phosphate
Then add more water to increase the volume to 0.5ltr

I'll alternate this macro solution with Profito for now which I'll treat as micro solution and see how I get on.

I'm wondering though, the macro recipe I used doesn't use Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate, why would this have been left out?

 
billiemackers said:
I'm wondering though, the macro recipe I used doesn't use Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate, why would this have been left out?
Click to expand...
Because a lot of these calculators come from US (and eastern Europe) where magnesium is common in the water. It is not very common in UK, so add magnesium sulphate, it is the cheapest EI ingredient, £15 for 25Kg on Ebay if you want a decent amount :)....

Also watch out as your water is very soft (many people would die for tap water like yours), so pH readings will/maybe erroneous using hobby test kits and or pH probes. Some people do have difficulty growing plants in very soft water. You might want to consider hardening your water up a bit. Search the forums for many ways to easily harden your water.
 
tim said:
Profito doesn't contain a nitrogen or phosphorus source, could be lacking either of these, soft water shouldn't be an issue.
Click to expand...

Definitely as Tim suggests a complete fertilising regime is a good plan, to include micros & macros (especially if you've no fish) but I had a quick question - I thought macros (nitrogen, phosphate, potassium) were mobile in the plant & micros aren't. If it's your rotala is pale at the top & your crypts have new pale & deformed leaves it might be a micro deficiency because the plant hasn't moved the missing nutrients to the new growth? If it's a micro that is missing I don't dont think if you add more macros the plants will be able to use them?
 
Hi all,
ian_m said:
Also watch out as your water is very soft (many people would die for tap water like yours),
Click to expand...
They certainly would.
Manisha said:
I thought macros (nitrogen, phosphate, potassium) were mobile in the plant & micros aren't. If it's your rotala is pale at the top & your crypts have new pale & deformed leaves it might be a micro deficiency because the plant hasn't moved the missing nutrients to the new growth?
Click to expand...
That is right, but the plants look a bit pale all over, so nitrogen (N), phosphorus (P), potassium (K) or magnesium (Mg) are all possibilities. My suspicion would be either N or P (or both).

Calcium (Ca) isn't mobile in the plant and that would be another possibility with the very soft tap water, but your tap water looks to supply enough. Iron deficiency is still a possibility in very soft water (you may just not have any source of iron, levels in the OP's tap water are very low, but I think that the Profito would cover this).

cheers Darrel
 
ian_m said:
Because a lot of these calculators come from US (and eastern Europe) where magnesium is common in the water. It is not very common in UK, so add magnesium sulphate, it is the cheapest EI ingredient, £15 for 25Kg on Ebay if you want a decent amount :)....

Also watch out as your water is very soft (many people would die for tap water like yours), so pH readings will/maybe erroneous using hobby test kits and or pH probes. Some people do have difficulty growing plants in very soft water. You might want to consider hardening your water up a bit. Search the forums for many ways to easily harden your water.
Click to expand...

Ah cheers! The solution I made up today didn't contain any Mg, I'll try to figure out how much to add (any ideas?) - this should also raise the GH right?
 
billiemackers said:
this should also raise the GH right?
Click to expand...
Yes, raises GH (general hardness) but not KH (carbonate hardness).

I and many other use 4 tsp potassium nitrate, 1tsp potassium phosphate and 6 tsp magnesium sulphate in to 500ml water, dosing 10ml per 50litre tank water.
 
ian_m said:
Yes, raises GH (general hardness) but not KH (carbonate hardness).

I and many other use 4 tsp potassium nitrate, 1tsp potassium phosphate and 6 tsp magnesium sulphate in to 500ml water, dosing 10ml per 50litre tank water.
Click to expand...

If I do consider hardening up my water a bit, don't I need to figure out the KH and GH values straight out of the tap first? If so, how do I do this as I've read a lot of stuff about hobbyist water testing kits being a waste of time
 
Hi all,
billiemackers said:
don't I need to figure out the KH and GH values straight out of the tap first?
Click to expand...
You can convert the hardness in degrees Clark values (from your water report) into hardness degrees German (dGH).

Your water has about 3dGH, and we can assume that is nearly all from CaCO3, so dKH will also be ~3dKH

The calculation is a bit strange, but details are in <"How do I work out..">.

cheers Darrel
 
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