• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

Plant Names, Taxonomy and Reference Books

J

JJenna

New Member
Joined
11 May 2023
Messages
2
Location
Indianapolis, IN USA
I'm sure most of us have experienced plant mislabeling. I've seen mislabeling on websites that sell plants.

Is there a book(s) that serves as a standard? I've found recommendations for "Aquarium Plants" by Christel Kasselmann, "Aquarium Plants" by Dr. Rataj & Thomas Horeman, and"Encyclopedia of Water Plants" by Dr. Jiri Stodola.

I know I can find lots of information on the web, but being 'old's cool" there is nothing better than pulling that reference book down from the bookshelf and looking for items.

What are your go-to books for the identification of aquatic plants? Most plant apps I've found are abysmal when it comes to identifying aquatic plants.
 
Hi all,
Welcome to UKAPS.
JJenna said:
I'm sure most of us have experienced plant mislabeling. I've seen mislabeling on websites that sell plants.
Click to expand...
Absolutely epidemic on this side of the Atlantic as well. I'll cc. in @GHNelson as we've been having a discussion about a particular plant's name recently.
castle said:
"Aquarium Plants" by Christel Kasselmann
Click to expand...
Probably your best bet.
JJenna said:
I know I can find lots of information on the web, but being 'old's cool" there is nothing better than pulling that reference book down from the bookshelf and looking for items.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of us like a book <"Aquarium and Natural History Books">. Have you tried <"Aquarium and Pond Plants of the World - Lucidcentral">? and there is also the <"Flowgrow database">.
JJenna said:
Most plant apps I've found are abysmal when it comes to identifying aquatic plants.
Click to expand...
They are getting better, partially via AI, there are a number that are NW Europe based, but I assume there are some for the USA. Have you tried <iNaturalist>?

cheers Darrel
 
Plant taxonomy has been, and probably always will be, an evolving science, so name changes are not uncommon, and a consensus can sometimes prove elusive. Genetics has helped, but I think there's still some argument about what constitutes reliable genomic strategies for species classification.

Back in the day I remember one of my professors being very excited about the then emerging field of genome mapping and how it was going to revolutionise everything. 30 years later it's just another can of worms that raises even more questions than answers.

Either way Christel's book has become a standard reference for the likes of us hobbyists, at least, especially since the recent release of the second edition.
 
+1 on Christel’s book, I think it is the best book for plant taxonomy, it had help me a lot in identification plants from natural habitats and mislabeled plants.
Tim Harrison said:
Plant taxonomy has been, and probably always will be, an evolving science, so name changes are not uncommon, and a consensus can sometimes prove elusive. Genetics has helped, but I think there's still some argument about what constitutes reliable genomic strategies for species classification.

Back in the day I remember one of my professors being very excited about the then emerging field of genome mapping and how it was going to revolutionise everything. 30 years later it's just another can of worms that raises even more questions than answers.

Either way Christel's book has become a standard reference for the likes of us hobbyists, at least, especially since the recent release of the second edition.
Click to expand...
As a side note @Tim Harrison @dw1305, can we make some kind of information list on plants that frequently mislabeled, invalid or use trader’s fantasy name on UKAPS. As I had previously mentioned in one of my post, all of the “wild type” Echinodorus species that I purchased from the nurseries were mislabeled. This is also typical of the amphibius aroids, particularly Bucephalandra and Cryptocoryne.
 
Nont said:
+1 on Christel’s book, I think it is the best book for plant taxonomy, it had help me a lot in identification plants from natural habitats and mislabeled plants.

As a side note @Tim Harrison @dw1305, can we make some kind of information list on plants that frequently mislabeled, invalid or use trader’s fantasy name on UKAPS. As I had previously mentioned in one of my post, all of the “wild type” Echinodorus species that I purchased from the nurseries were mislabeled. This is also typical of the amphibius aroids, particularly Bucephalandra and Cryptocoryne.
Click to expand...
Sure, why not start the thread yourself with an example or two under "Plant Help".
Plus we do have our own database, "Plantbase", for reference.
 
Tim Harrison said:
Sure, why not start the thread yourself with an example or two under "Plant Help".
Plus we do have our own database, "Plantbase", for reference.
Click to expand...
Well, I’m not good with English grammar as I’m not a native speaker, I’m currently writing using grammar checker app. Also, I might get sued from Tropica, since the our plantbase is from their website?
 
Last edited:
Hi all,
Nont said:
As I had previously mentioned in one of my post, all of the “wild type” Echinodorus species that I purchased from the nurseries were mislabeled. This is also typical of the amphibius aroids, particularly Bucephalandra and Cryptocoryne.
Click to expand...
It is <"really difficult">.

From <"Cryptocoryne | Aquarium and Pond Plants of the World E3">
Additional comments
......... A genus of 60 species, but only about a dozen species commonly traded in the industry. ........ Cultivated either submersed or emersed. Frequently tissue cultured. High degree of polyploidy between some species, combined with a high degree of phenotypic variation, has made the taxonomy of this genus problematic. Accurate identification of most species can only be confirmed by examining flowers .............
Click to expand...
The problem is that, in most cases, you need the plant to flower <"for a definitive ID">, and even then there maybe some ambiguity. We have some threads <"where plants have flowered"> and that has allowed us to get to a likely ID.

Same applies to most mosses, <"no capsule, no name">.

cheers Darrel
 
Last edited:
dw1305 said:
It is <"really difficult">.

From <"Cryptocoryne | Aquarium and Pond Plants of the World E3">

The problem is that, in most cases, you need the plant to flower <"for a definitive ID">, and even then there maybe some ambiguity. We have some threads <"where plants have flowered"> and that has allowed us to get to a likely ID.
Click to expand...
Some wrongly named Cryptocoryne species in that link. the best sites for legitimate cryptocoryne species for identifying are

The Crypts pages~ by Jan D. Bastmeijer

www.cryptocoryneworld.org www.cryptocoryneworld.org




 
Last edited:
Nont said:
Well, I’m not good with English grammar as I’m not a native speaker, I’m currently writing using grammar checker app. Also, I might get sued from Tropica, since the our plantbase is from their website?
Click to expand...
Your grammar is very good, so you’re doing better than you think. Tropica will be fine with it. Like I mentioned above plant taxonomy is a bit of a free for all and pretty volatile when it comes to circumscrption.

If there’s a problem, which there won’t be, the moderating team will sort it. So if you come across any misnomers throw them out there for the community to comment on. You never know it might spark an interesting discussion 😉
 
Nont said:
use trader’s fantasy name on UKAPS
Click to expand...
...like ludwigia mini super red for example - probably the most annoying "new" name for aquatic plant I know - in this case ludwigia palustris in various forms mostly caused by playing with ferts etc.
 
Should we move this subject to a new thread, I think I might be hijacking OP’s threads.
Tim Harrison said:
Your grammar is very good, so you’re doing better than you think.
Click to expand...
That’s because I use the grammar app 🙃
dw1305 said:
The problem is that, in most cases, you need the plant to flower <"for a definitive ID">, and even then there maybe some ambiguity. We have some threads <"where plants have flowered"> and that has allowed us to get to a likely ID.
Click to expand...
Flower identification isn’t always the case with Echinodorus and Crypts, as there seems to be “unintentional” hybridization happening in both nature and the nurseries. For example, I purchased this plant under the name E. cordifolius; the leaf shape and inflorescence decumbent behavior match the descriptions of Kew’s website and appearance on Inaturalist’s wild observation but the petiole cross section and "fruit" shape is different. The research by Lehtonen and Falck below is a great reads on this subject (from page 27 upward)

Also from this research, regarding Tropica’s E. cordifolius subsp. fluitans from the plantbase (Page 33)
“Another example of name misapplication was the plant sold as Echinodorus cordifolius ssp. fluitans by Tropica Aquarium Plants. Based on studied DNA sequences this plant combines genetic material of E. longiscapus and E. grandiflorus”.
 
Last edited:
Hi all,
Nont said:
as there seems to be “unintentional” hybridization happening in both nature and the nurseries.
Click to expand...
I think that we are actually more likely to get hybrids, rather than pure species, partially because hybrids often have <"hybrid vigour"> and may be sterile as well, which often improves vegetative growth. There may also be polyploidy, again with enhanced growth in tetraploids etc.

In the UK we get Marsh Orchids (Dactylorhiza spp.) which often grow in <"hybrids swarms">.

cheers Darrel
 
I'm so thankful to have found the UKAPS...After reading the comments and having retired from an evidence-based medical practice it's definitely out of my wheelhouse to switch to evidence-based practice when it comes to all things aquaria after re-entering the hobby after 40+ years. Appreciate all the recommendations and didn't mind the comments not related to my question.
 
Your question raised a really interesting subject and subsequent discussion. I think it's a great introduction to future questions relating to plant names and taxonomy, so I decided to change the title in the hope that those with similar questions would find this thread.
 
Hi all,
JJenna said:
After reading the comments and having retired from an evidence-based medical practice it's definitely out of my wheelhouse to switch to evidence-based practice when it comes to all things aquaria after re-entering the hobby after 40+ years.
Click to expand...
We have members who are trying to quantify <"plant growth parameters"> etc. I'm a <"botanist by training"> but I'm <"quite interested in probability"> as well.

You might be interested in some of our threads on <"Cycling">.
It is an area where there have been huge advances in scientific knowledge, many of which haven't really yet trickled down to the aquarium hobby.

cheers Darrel
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top