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ph readings, dropchecker always green and aquasoil... any relationship?

If you can achieve a better distribution of co2 then the co2 saturation process could be more efficient dropping the ph even lower , this though could not always be the case , but then it could be :)
I found I could achieve a lower ph level by lights on when my distribution was via a spray bar , I also have lowered the bubble rate.


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Yes, you're right. I have been reading some old threads and the many people have solved this problem improving the flow, in most cases with a spraybar. I could even save some CO2 due to better efficiency (instead of increasing more and more the bubble rate). Will keep on with my test today and maybe I will try to reduce the amount of material in my Eheim 2215 to increase the outflow (it is now full of media to the top. I should leave it only with coarse sponge and ceramic rings and get rid of the other sponges).
 
^^^ I would do exActly this , I wouldn't hesitate to remove 50% of the media and just leave in one sponge.
Be interested to see what results you get :)
Cheers


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Hi again, new update. This time with the diffuser placed under the inflow (as previous days) but I increased the bubble rate. Not happy with the results because there has been a small pH drop, but once again, not on time. Moreover I feel like I’m losing part of the injected CO2. The inflow is not able to swallow all the bubbles and as a result some of them reach the surface (I would say a 20%). So definitely I looks like a flow problem rather that a rate problem.

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First of all, I will get rid of half of the canister media, but this weekend I will look for cheap tubing to drill some holes and make a DIY spray bar... lots of fun with this issue!
 
It works, more flow was needed. I removed part of the media of my canister and...

NTqiort.jpg


more pH drop when light on. Next step: DIY spraybar.
 
Sacha said:
Reading pH of the tank water is NOT an accurate way to measure Co2.

I have only been on this forum a couple of days, but have seen loads of people talking about their co2 concentration in terms of a pH drop- how much the Co2 drops their pH.

A drop checker is the most accurate way to measure co2 concentration. pH of tank water is affected by so many other things than Carbonic acid. Humic acids, ammonia (which is acidic), nitric acids, even some algaes, all can influence the pH. Therefore we need to read something which is constant and ONLY influenced by the co2 gas (and the resultant carbonic acid). The way we do that is with a contained amount of water of a known KH, which is not in contact with anything else that may alter its pH.
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I couldn't help but respond to this..

Measuring the tanks ph IS the most accurate way in measuring co2.
The higher the water's kh, the more likely that the ph is effected from other sources of bicarbonates..this is true, and if we STRICTLY follow the ph/kh chart then you will likely not get an accurate measurement of co2 . However the ph/kh chart is not an exact science, similar to the drop checker, its an estimation of co2 concentrations, nobody is saying follow it exact, its essentially a starting point, like a drop checker.
When we use a ph meter(a good ph meter) we measure the tanks base ph, with no co2, then monitor the shift in ph, and using the kh/ph chart we can get close to our target co2. So essentially very similar to the drop checker, however this is where the accuracy of a ph meter greatly outweighs the drop checker. As we drive down the tanks ph, the more we drive it down, for each 0.1 ph shift, co2 shifts non linearly(you can see this in the ph/kh chart) and just 0.1 point can be a big difference in co2 concentration. For example, if we have a kh of 3, and our base ph is 7, we drive down the co2 to reach 30ppm were at around 6.5 ph, but lets say we have algae, poor plant growth etc. and we want to add say 10ppm more of co2, that's only around a 0.15 shift in ph, a very miniscule difference that's easily adjusted with a ph monitor, we dont have this accuracy in a drop checker. This isnt to say either that the 0.15 shift in ph will net exactly 10ppm more of co2, but that small adjustment can often times be the difference in a healthy aquarium or one covered in algae. Neither method is an exact science, but a ph meter is far better in monitoring co2 injection rates.
 
Hi all,
Jon said:
When we use a ph meter(a good ph meter) we measure the tanks base ph, with no co2, then monitor the shift in ph, and using the kh/ph chart we can get close to our target co2. So essentially very similar to the drop checker, however this is where the accuracy of a ph meter greatly outweighs the drop checker. As we drive down the tanks ph, the more we drive it down, for each 0.1 ph shift, co2 shifts non linearly(you can see this in the ph/kh chart) and just 0.1 point can be a big difference in co2 concentration. For example, if we have a kh of 3, and our base ph is 7, we drive down the co2 to reach 30ppm were at around 6.5 ph, but lets say we have algae, poor plant growth etc. and we want to add say 10ppm more of co2, that's only around a 0.15 shift in ph, a very miniscule difference that's easily adjusted with a ph monitor, we dont have this accuracy in a drop checker.
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This is right, but with the proviso that pH meter's aren't the lowest maintenance bit of kit, and needed to be calibrated with pH4 and pH7 buffers before each use.You also may run into problems if the dKH of the tank water changes.

Have a look at "plantbrain's" post in this thread
[URL="http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ph-drop-high-alkalinity.30384/#post-321378"]Ph drop & high alkalinity[/URL]

cheers Darrel
 
I do use a pH meter calibrated each time... not the cheapest instrument, no. The one I use from work costs a fortune.
This afternoon a new update. In my case it is a way to fine-tune some CO2 issues...
 
I use the £7.99 ebay yellow Ph pen lol, and calibrate occasionally with independently bought ph4 & 7 solutions. I have to say i've been impressed with how it retains calibration, having only had to make minor tweaks (like 0.2 at the most) in the 2 months i've been using it! 100 times better than trying to decipher liquid test results.
 
I also use a £7.99 pen from eBay and I haven't once calibrated it , i have no idea if it needs it but I seem to be able to control my co2 levels with the results alongside the drop checker .
Seems to work ok for me :)


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Guess what? This was another spraybar thread! New update and more progress achieved regarding the absolute pH drop and the time needed for minimum value. It looks a bit impossible to me to have a more relevant pH drop (with the spraybar it’s 0.4, maybe could be around 0.5. Should seriously consider to make a KH and GH test to know how liquid rock is my tap water) as my DC is quite yellowish at the end of the light period. I don’t have critters for the moment but I would be a bit worried if I had them. More advantages of the spraybar: I can manage to have nice ripples in the water surface, gentle movement of all my plants (even the ones in the corners), the surface film I had these last days seems to have vanished and I reach better values with less CO2.
Let it flow!!!!

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next steps: change the crappy Eheim green hook, see if the redmoors have decided no to float anymore... and watch it grow.
 
Is it a DIY spraybar fitted into the Eheim sheperds crook? If it is and it's a 16/22 crook what material did you use to make it ;)
 
Yes it is a 50 cm DIY spraybar fitted into the 12mm Eheim sheperds crook. I bought 1 meter of 12mm diameter PVC rigid tube (3.5€/meter) to try the configuration (how many holes and their size) and have at least 2 chances... but finally I only needed one (I read it in another thread: your outflow area must me more or less similar to the new outflow area, that is now 10 tiny holes. The water must hit the front glass). The PVC spraybar is attached to the hook with a small piece of green eheim tubing (12/16 mm). Much better if it not Green :) I will consider to buy an acrylic spraybar (10€/meter if I am not wrong) that is like glass... (PVC is a bit blue compared to acrylic).
Anyway, if you go to a specialised plastic shop you will have any diameter for tubing. Suckers were purchased in a pet shop.
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all, This is right, but with the proviso that pH meter's aren't the lowest maintenance bit of kit, and needed to be calibrated with pH4 and pH7 buffers before each use.You also may run into problems if the dKH of the tank water changes.

Have a look at "plantbrain's" post in this thread <http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/ph-drop-high-alkalinity.30384/#post-321378>.

cheers Darrel
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I agree, it is more expensive and you do need to ensure calibration, however it is far more accurate. I would never advise anyone to use a ph controller for injecting co2, if the kh changes then its easy to gas fish, or have something go wrong. however using a ph monitor as a means of adjusting co2 can be very accurate, especially when you get to very high co2 levels where drop checkers and bubble counts become unreadable.
 
Hi, new update but no more figures ;) , just mention that my DC goes blue every night now. May I asume that this is due to the ripples produced by the spraybar in the water surface? (loss of CO2)
I kept measuring the pH during the last days and I have also noticed that itis slowly going up, closer to the tap water values. I guess the Aquasoil is leaching less humic acids.

Now, trying to see if I can still improve the system:
CO2 inline diffusers | UK Aquatic Plant Society
 
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