PH level too low?

[Dutch]

Hi all,

I recently started a new high tech tank (90P / 160 liter, aquasoil, Chihiros wrgb 90 pro, super jet filter 900, and co2 injection). The tank went through a dark start , and water parameters are good. Except for the PH. The tank has 7 hours light period and one hour before light turns on the co2 injection starts till one hour before light goes off. The drop checker at the end is green. But I also have a denerele PH controller which shows PH 6.5 before co2 starts and ends with PH 5.7 (somewhere arround 5 bps).

The tank plants are growing like crazy so I started today with introduction of 6 Ottos and 10 Amano shrimps. But I noticed directly the fish are struggeling. They grasp for air and look dwelled.

Since I believe this comes from the low PH levels I would like to know what to do? How can I make sure the co2 is good for plants but the fish also survive?

can I increase the PH levels while adding the same amount of co2? So it’s good for both fish and plants?

If I’m doing anything else wrong please let me know. Anyone’s support is highly appreciated!

Thank you!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all

The tank plants are growing like crazy so I started today with introduction of 6 Ottos and 10 Amano shrimps. But I noticed directly the fish are struggeling. They grasp for air and look dwelled.

Since I believe this comes from the low PH levels I would like to know what to do?

It isn't the pH, it is the CO2.

How can I make sure the co2 is good for plants but the fish also survive?

I think fish health is your primary objective at the moment.

can I increase the PH levels while adding the same amount of co2? So it’s good for both fish and plants

Just turn the CO2 down, it gives you time to think.

Cheers Darrel

 

[Bradders]

But I noticed directly the fish are struggeling. They grasp for air and look dwelled.

It isn't the pH, it is the CO2.

As @dw1305 says, but also the plants look new, and there is no gas exchange to bring oxygen in.

 

[Dutch]

Hi all

It isn't the pH, it is the CO2.

I think fish health is your primary objective at the moment.

Just turn the CO2 down, it gives you time to think.

Cheers Darrel

Hi Darrel, thanks for the reply! Yes , turned the co2 down a lot for tomorrow (lights and co2 are off now).
So the ph which is 6.5 is not too low for the Otto’s and Amano’s? What can I do so I can still keep adding co2 on a level that it’s still beneficial for plants but keeps the water levels healthy for its inhabitants?

I did put the Lilly output a bit higher so I created some bubbles / oxygen now. Guess water level was too high because of the water change..

 

[Andy Pierce]

Ottos are fragile in the general case even under well-established aquarium conditions, so not the best choice as a first fish into a new tank.

What is your source of water - is this tap or RO? If tap, where are you located and what does your water report say? If RO, what are you adding to the tank to remineralise? "New tank" means it might not yet be fully cycled so your livestock could be struggling due to ammonia or nitrite etc and not necessarily the CO2 or the pH. Plants are "growing like crazy" is not always good... conditions that are best for plants don't work for livestock so most aim for a balance where the livestock is happy and the plant growth is 'good enough'. If this were an established tank and you thought the pH was too low following CO2 injection to 30 ppm (like what your drop checker might be showing) that would mean you're at a very low KH and it would be pretty straightforward to add some sodium bicarbonate to bring the pH up a little, but we need more information before we can give our best advice. Your drop checker looks ok to me, but a better picture would help. If you can provide more information on when you started the tank and what your water parameters are, we can better help address the underlying problem.

Of course, please do not add any more livestock until you sort out what the issues might be.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Yes , turned the co2 down a lot for tomorrow (lights and co2 are off now).

Well done.

So the ph which is 6.5 is not too low for the Otto’s and Amano’s? What can I do so I can still keep adding co2 on a level that it’s still beneficial for plants but keeps the water levels healthy for its inhabitants?

The pH definitely won't bother the Otocinclus, I've never kept Amano Shrimps, so won't pass comment. I agree with @Andy Pierce about Otocinclus being sensitive fish.

it would be pretty straightforward to add some sodium bicarbonate to bring the pH up a little

I'm not a fan of sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), but potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) would perform the same function.

cheers Darrel

 

[Dutch]

Ottos are fragile in the general case even under well-established aquarium conditions, so not the best choice as a first fish into a new tank.

What is your source of water - is this tap or RO? If tap, where are you located and what does your water report say? If RO, what are you adding to the tank to remineralise? "New tank" means it might not yet be fully cycled so your livestock could be struggling due to ammonia or nitrite etc and not necessarily the CO2 or the pH. Plants are "growing like crazy" is not always good... conditions that are best for plants don't work for livestock so most aim for a balance where the livestock is happy and the plant growth is 'good enough'. If this were an established tank and you thought the pH was too low following CO2 injection to 30 ppm (like what your drop checker might be showing) that would mean you're at a very low KH and it would be pretty straightforward to add some sodium bicarbonate to bring the pH up a little, but we need more information before we can give our best advice. Your drop checker looks ok to me, but a better picture would help. If you can provide more information on when you started the tank and what your water parameters are, we can better help address the underlying problem.

Of course, please do not add any more livestock until you sort out what the issues might be.

Hi Andy,

Thank you for your time and reply!
Im using tab water , from Holland. The tank went through a 8 week dark start. Where the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate were already good to go at week 4.

Lighting period: 6 hours + 1 hour ramp up / down
Co2 : 7 hours (1 hour before light go on , off 1 before lights go off)

I just finished my testing ( Colombo testing kit):

Ammonia : 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate : 20 mg/l
Ph: 6.7 when co2 off - 5.5 at end of co2 period)
Ph tab: 7.5
Phosphate: <0.5 mg/l
KH: 4 ( 7 tab water)
GH: 4 ( 6 tab water)

When I woke up I noticed the ph was back to 6.7 and w/o the co2 in the water the Oto’s were all appearing good. Cleaning the tank and swinging like they should.

The drop checker will be light green at the end of the day when the co2 stops. I reduced the co2 now from 5 bps to 2 bps.

If the KH is too low, what can I do to increase the level of it? Hopefully you can tell me if the parameters indicate that I’m off on something.

Thanks!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I just finished my testing ( Colombo testing kit):

Ammonia : 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate : 20 mg/l
Ph: 6.7 when co2 off - 5.5 at end of co2 period)
Ph tab: 7.5
Phosphate: <0.5 mg/l
KH: 4 ( 7 tab water)
GH: 4 ( 6 tab water)

That looks OK. I'm not a fan of making decisions based on test kits, but they don't look unrealistic as numbers.

If the KH is too low, what can I do to increase the level of it? Hopefully you can tell me if the parameters indicate that I’m off on something.

You have plenty of alkalinity, just ignore what people tell you about <"pH stability">. Have a look at <"Soft water tank">.

Cheers Darrel

 

[FrozenShivers]

Otto's can be pretty fragile in my experience and are certainly not a good addition until the tank is a lot more mature & lots of algae on the glass/hardscape. Good job on lowering CO2.

 

[Andy Pierce]

You have plenty of alkalinity, just ignore what people tell you about "pH stability".

Agree. Your alkalinity is fine. I think your CO2 is good as well. This could be as simple as ottos don't work until you have a fully mature tank with lot of plants that have been growing for a while. If you haven't had to trim your stem plants yet, it's probably too soon for ottos.

 

[Le duke]

I’ve had otocinclus in a 145g tank that drops to 6.0 each day, for two years now.

Big Amano shrimp in there, too.

But: I have a LOT more surface disturbance than you do. An FX4 powers my Cerges reactor and an FX6 produces ripples all the way down the side of the tank. I have a power head driving water down the back side of the tank.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Dutch]

Agree. Your alkalinity is fine. I think your CO2 is good as well. This could be as simple as ottos don't work until you have a fully mature tank with lot of plants that have been growing for a while. If you haven't had to trim your stem plants yet, it's probably too soon for ottos.

Hi Andy, and everyone thanks again! I halved the co2 compared to yesterday (2 bps) and the Otos do good , they don’t grasp for air anymore and are looking for algae. I added a algae wafer if they can’t find enough. So that’s good for now.

The drop checker (see picture) is much greener compared to yesterday. It used to be light green whereas it’s now more darker green. Is this still good enough for the plants?

The co2 just stopped for today and now the PH is at 6.2 instead of the 5.5. So only a PH drop of 0.5 instead of 1+.

I never had the Otos , I was more focused on the plants and no fish, but seen too much YouTubers adding those fish as a so called “clean up crew” , even when the tanks were not even cycled. So thought that when the parameters are fine I can add them.. at least learned something.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The drop checker (see picture) is much greener compared to yesterday. It used to be light green whereas it’s now more darker green. Is this still good enough for the plants?

Any additional CO2 will benefit your plants, as long as none of your <"mineral nutrients are limiting plant growth">. Personally I'm not a CO2 user, partially because I could never forgive myself if I asphyxiated the pets <"I have a duty of care for">. If I was a CO2 user? That would be plenty green enough.

Have a look at: From <"Drop checker - Fireplace aquarium">

...... Here’s a chart I made that shows what colour the bromothymol blue solution in the drop checker will be, shown as a function of hardness of the water in the drop checker (usually set to 4 dKH – shown as the row headings) and the concentration of dissolved CO2 in the aquarium water (shown in the column headings). People generally aim for 30 parts per million (PPM) CO2 dissolved in the water, so if you read the chart across at 4 dKH you can see how the central lighter and darker green colours (outlined in bold boxes) indicate a CO2 concentration of beween 20 – 40 PPM, which is generally fine. The numbers inside the coloured boxes are the pH of the drop checker solution at equilibrium, which again is not the same as the pH of the aquarium water. .......

cheers Darrel

 

[Dutch]

Thanks Darrel! That’s a great overview! That overview suggest that today I ended up with 15 PPM with 2 bps. Instead of the range of 30-40 with 5 bps.

Any additional CO2 will benefit your plants, as long as none of your <"mineral nutrients are limiting plant growth">. Personally I'm not a CO2 user, partially because I could never forgive myself if I asphyxiated the pets <"I have a duty of care for">. If I was a CO2 user? That would be plenty green enough.

I understand, now I also need to take responsibility for the fish and shrimp. So lower co2 and check if I can increase it a bit when the the plants are more mature!

Thanks everyone for the support! Really helped and much appreciated!