Perdition to paradise (hopefully)

[greying_mantis]

Day 19
13th and final rehab water change done. I did another 50% today. Tested at 40-50ppm nitrates. I’m happy to leave it there and move to weekly water changes. I want to see what the plants do with it.

I’ve been dosing NPK and trace elements for the last week or so. Not sure what exactly is in the trace mix, other than iron. It seems to be an older Aqua Essentials range - I’ve had them for a few years, I think they were a gift. I recognise there’s an element of risk using an old product but I don’t think there’s much that can “go off” in a way that would be dangerous for the tank. The fish are showing no ill effects. I’ll use them up and then see how things look, unless strongly advised otherwise.

The congos are displaying at each other and the synodontis seem to have settled down. Plenty of interaction/minor squabbles today but none of the vicious chasing/fighting from yesterday. The big two are making “desire paths” all over the tank - it’s lovely to see the sand reflect their preferences and habitual movements, something they couldn’t really achieve with the old substrate (which is still in there, just largely buried at the back).

If Lucy and Petri stay chill, the next fish added will be more congo tetra. I’d love to have 10 or so in there, and I think they’d be happier as well. Anyone with some not-tiny congos needing a new home, hit me up? 😄

I’ve ordered polycarbonate sheet for the new lid, and some new tools to cut it. I’ve not decided exactly how I’ll lay it out but I have some initial ideas. I want holes cut for emersed growth and will make the lid up of 2-3 panels, with the plant holes in a panel I won’t have to move much. This will either be at the back or in the middle, over the brace bar. I suppose it really depends how I want the plants to look over the tank, and their roots within it. I’ll do a mock-up tomorrow (probably).

Bought some plants of another UKAPS member - more vallis and limnophila sessiliflora, some dwarf water lettuce and red root floaters. Excited for them to arrive. I also want more foreground and mid ground plants - probably more crypts (with weights this time) but happy to hear suggestions

 

[greying_mantis]

Day 20

Managed to get a cloth attached to a broom handle down the back of the tank. No more water streaks! I don’t think the tank has ever looked this clean. I’d like to get a background to hide the pipe work and cables but I don’t know how I’d apply it neatly without draining and moving the tank. Maybe an old bank card tied to the end of the aforementioned broom?

I’ve been thinking forward to how I might manage CO2 if I want to add it. Despite knowing the likelihood of a catastrophic failure is relatively low, I continue to be very anxious about pressurised cylinders in the house, as is my spouse who is acutely aware of the risks from his work in chem labs. And I’ve seen several accounts of cylinders going through lethal-to-livestock “extinction bursts” as they run out. I would also really struggle with getting it refilled due to my particular disabilities which mean I am not allowed to drive, have highly variable executive functioning and struggle hugely with fatigue. I know that even with the best of intentions I will find it very difficult to get across to a refill site in a timely manner. Which leaves sugar-and-yeast or citric acid (which seems to be a sort of half-way between the other two?) The major cons seem to be the variability of the reaction, the risk of flooding the tank with reactants and the possibility of messy “explosions” if I overload the mix (though they seem rather less dangerous than a fire extinguisher gone haywire) but those seem manageable to me as long as the right routine and equipment are used, especially as I would be looking to add “just enough” CO2 to perk everything up rather than pushing 30ppm for intense growth of tricky plants. The need to change over the mix every week or so doesn’t seem more bothersome than doing laundry/other regular household tasks, and the ability to get everything I need from my regular supermarket orders is very useful (and likely the deciding factor). I know there are strong feelings about homebrew CO2 but I’m not seeing a consensus against it as a fundamentally unethical approach, more a general feeling that pressurised CO2 is cleaner, easier and more reliable.

Still, it’s not something I am rushing into. I need to make sure I can keep on top of basic maintenance before adding a new system. One thing this rehab process has done is “cure” my avoidance of water changes. They are not the big, scary task I had turned them into. If only I could find similar energy for weeding the garden…

Speaking of gardens, I have more plants on the way. I went back to Abyss who have been great during the “renovation” and also placed my first order with Dennerle. Mostly fore-to-midground and epiphytes. I finally paid attention to the bucephalandra hype and realised just how pretty they are. I don’t think they were very available last time I was seriously thinking about plants (a good many years ago). Once this lot land I should have a fairly heavily planted tank. Whether they’ll thrive or not is another matter!

 

[bazz]

I know it is subjective but to me your tank looks far better now, kudos for the effort. Under the circumstances I personally would not bother with CO2. Looking at that plant list and the plants you already have in your tank, I can't see many species that will vastly benefit from it's application, and varying levels of CO2 can open up a new can of worms. However, it is your tank to do with as you please, and if you do fancy a dabble, I believe lower levels of CO2 can most certainly benefit most plants as long as it is stable, plants love/need stability, and leave the higher levels of CO2 to the, high light, pearling stem plant junkies.
Obviously this is just my blinkered approach, but good luck with whatever path you choose.
Cheers!

 

[greying_mantis]

I know it is subjective but to me your tank looks far better now, kudos for the effort

Thanks bazz ☺️

Under the circumstances I personally would not bother with CO2. Looking at that plant list and the plants you already have in your tank, I can't see many species that will vastly benefit from it's application, and varying levels of CO2 can open up a new can of worms. However, it is your tank to do with as you please, and if you do fancy a dabble, I believe lower levels of CO2 can most certainly benefit most plants as long as it is stable, plants love/need stability, and leave the higher levels of CO2 to the, high light, pearling stem plant junkies.

This is my feeling too.

 

[Connswater]

my feeling too

And honestly, if you do want to "dabble", I myself recommend yeast and sugar, not perfect, but green, works and gives stability without endangering the fish and provides just a little boost in harder water for the plants in their ongoing 'battle with algae', nature 'tooth and claw' and all of that.

 

[greying_mantis]

And honestly, if you do want to "dabble", I myself recommend yeast and sugar, not perfect, but green, works and gives stability without endangering the fish and provides just a little boost in harder water for the plants in their ongoing 'battle with algae', nature 'tooth and claw' and all of that.

I’ve got the old Nutrafin yeast and sugar kit. I suspect it’s rather too small for my tank though, even with the lower output I’d be using. Do you know of any good resources for using yeast and sugar for “just a little” CO2? Most guides seem geared towards maximising output.

 

[Connswater]

maximising output

Mark, MJ Aquascaping (YouTube) used gelatine to make things last longer, slower release, never done it myself, but you might want to have a look. I used a modest home made system on a deep, wide, three foot with great success, but I did have to recharge a lot in warmer weather, but I was just using supermarket yeast and sugar in an old old fizzy drink bottle. With a yeast and sugar system the output is rarely more than a modest bubble per second or so, not the three or four bubbles per second some of us use. If I was doing things from scratch, I suspect, I would not use an external cannister filter, not buy dedicated aquarium lights, not use soil in my substrate, not muck about with my water chemistry and not use a high pressure CO2 system, but then I think I'm getting a bit less comfortable with all aspects of high tech, but I'm not going back to a manual typewriter, but LPs are better than CDs, in my humble opinion, and as for downloaded music, I'd rather let a real human being choose for me on the old fashioned "wireless". What suits is what is important I think, best of luck.

Pearling Rotala macrandra in my main tank tonight, after a massive prune, which proves I am sadly a CO2 stem plant "junkie".

 

[greying_mantis]

Day 21

The frogbit is really struggling and I noticed some issues with other plants. Posted in the Plant Help forum.

Thinkin’ ‘bout ferts, ferts, ferts. Probably Happi’s Solufeed recipe. Seems like a good middle ground between easy-but-expensive liquids and buying all the dry ingredients separately. I need to do a lot more reading, though.

Played around with the Nutrafin DIY CO2 canister. It’s feeding into a bucket of water. I want to see what the output is like and how long the system lasts. No bubbles yet but apparently it can take hours to get going. Maybe it’ll have woken up by morning. Maybe the yeast is too old (I found it in the back of the pantry).

I caught one of the monsters slurping crypts like spaghetti. I can see why people tend to keep small fish in their planted tanks 🤣

 

[greying_mantis]

Day 22

Noticed a couple of the synos flicking today. Their skin seems clear, aside from a few white grazes from their squabbles. No sign of whitespot or visible external parasites. Could just be residual irritation from the historically high nitrate levels. I’m very wary of chucking remedies into the tank on the basis of one non-specific symptom. As is so often the case with fishkeeping (and plant keeping), I’ll monitor for changes.

The yeast-and-sugar attached to the spare bucket has done nothing. Dead yeast, I assume. I’ll try again in a different container with a different recipe just to check.

Still thinking about ferts.

As our water is hard and the tank tends to sit around pH 7.4-7.6 I’m eyeing up iron that’s more strongly chelated such as Solufeed Rapid (Fe EDDHSA) as I suspect I’ll struggle with just relying on the iron in most commercial multi-nutrient mixes which seem to be aimed at low pH systems. I’m also wondering whether the problems with pH and chelating agents also apply to other elements such B, Cu, Zn. My next research topic, I think.

In the meantime, I’m trying to do some of my own maths for a potential dosing regimen using the Solufeed powders - a considerable struggle given my severe allergy to numbers. I do want to have some understanding of why I am dosing a particular way rather than just relying on “because the computer said so”. Alas the Chemist (spouse) has gone to bed so I may need to commit to finishing this tomorrow with his help lest I sit up all night boiling my brain with decimal places. I checked out the IFC calculator but I don’t currently have access to Excel. I have a non-zero urge to stick my fingers in my ears and hide my banking app and just buy a pre-mixed all-in-one from an aquatics supplier.

On top of the plant problems described in the aforementioned help thread (see Day 21) I’ve now noticed chlorosis of some anubias leaves. Not neatly interveinal but decidedly striped nonetheless (for now). Along with the necrotic spotting and the necrotic margins on some leaves I’m wondering if potassium and molybdenum should be - separately or together - the main suspects.

The fairly rapid decline is ramping up my anxiety. I am not catastrophising about some sinister hidden killer or thinking all is DOOMED but I am aware of the need to correct this soon and I’m putting a lot of pressure on myself to find the Cheapest, Perfectest, Most Knowledgable-est solution and find it NOW. TNC Complete (or similar) is looking increasingly attractive and the cost really isn’t bad for the convenience. I’ve only got the one big-but-not-huge tank. At the very least, it’ll give me breathing room to work out a more cost effective, customised regime.

I’ll probably still get extra iron, though.

 

[hypnogogia]

That veining could be magnesium deficiency.

 

[greying_mantis]

That veining could be magnesium deficiency.

I didn’t feel confident suggesting that because it isn’t (yet) strictly interveinal but I’m probably being too rigid in my thinking. Really helpful to have another eye on it, thank you 🙂

 

[bazz]

TNC Complete (or similar) is looking increasingly attractive and the cost really isn’t bad for the convenience.

1 litre of TNC Complete is £16.50 on Amazon, used at their recommended dosage, 1ml/10 litres (I have heard some folks double or even triple dose, depending on plant mass) will last 40 weeks, so not too expensive.

I’ve now noticed chlorosis of some anubias leaves.

Are these your new additions? If so, they will have been grown emersed and existing leaves will die off sooner or later, as long as the rhizome is good, just keep an eye on the new growth and it's health. I thoink most of your new rosette plants will go through this process.

That veining could be magnesium deficiency

While our UK tap water contains copious amounts of Calcium there is very little Magnesium. Epsom Salts is cheap and cheerful and a heaped teaspoon/week could help and certainly would not do any harm.

If you want to go down the Solufeed route I can work it out for you (using the IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator) when I have a spare hour in the next day or two, and chart it for your understanding.

 

[megwattscreative]

Hiya! In terms of tanks mine is reasonably similar to yours, low tech, sand substrate, 100L. I imagine we will have similar levels of planting in future, maybe without the giant peace lilies! I do have extremely soft water which is a lot more forgiving on the plants.

I use a very lazy fertiliser - chempak sequestered iron with magnesium + manganese & solufeed. Over the past year I have been adding a 2.5ml spoon of each every weekly water change ( I normally do a 30-40% change, I just like doing hefty changes), and know from the frogbit that everything is very happy. I was originally stressing with calculators but after I got a rough idea of the ppm needed for the leanest dose possible I've just kind of freestyled. I've started dosing less frequently (every other weekish) and it doesn't seem to be making too much of a difference. I'd rather go leaner than have too much.

I really don't think it has to be too complicated! Ive barely made a dent in the iron over the year I've been using it, and the same with the solufeed. I'll see if I can find my cheapy eBay links and will add to this post.

Where I get my iron (free delivery)
@dw1305 gave me some solufeed so you'd have to ask him (thanks da)

Pics of my tank and frogbit for reference 🙂

 

[greying_mantis]

1 litre of TNC Complete is £16.50 on Amazon, used at their recommended dosage, 1ml/litre (I have heard some folks double or even triple dose, depending on plant mass) will last 40 weeks, so not too expensive.

I went for it. Something to keep the tank going in the short term, while I work out what else I want to do.

Are these your new additions?

Yes, they all are apart from some old anubias and Java fern rhizomes that are still alive but have no leaves. Though the Java fern seems to be slowly recovering. I expected some melt but didn’t think it would manifest like this, and didn’t expect the anubias to go (though the aforementioned old lot did, a few years back - I put that down to poor conditions as they didn’t recover)

If you want to go down the Solufeed route I can work it out for you (using the IFC Aquarium Fertilizer Calculator) when I have a spare hour in the next day or two, and chart it for your understanding.

Thank you for the very kind offer. Yes, that would be very helpful 😊 I’m looking at Solufeed 2:1:4, TEC Sodium Free and Rapid (Fe EDDHSA). Aiming for a moderate dosing level, not EI. I’d still like to try to get a grip on the maths myself but having a reliable cross reference/back-up would be very appreciated.

I imagine we will have similar levels of planting in future, maybe without the giant peace lilies

I’d love some giant peace lilies. Sorting an emersed growth rig and light(s) is a project for another time, though. Maybe we can compare tanks in a year or so 😄

I was originally stressing with calculators but after I got a rough idea of the ppm needed

I really don't think it has to be too complicated!

It’s the initial “rough idea” I’m stuck on! I’ll get there, though 🙂

Pics of my tank and frogbit for reference 🙂

Lush 😍

 

[Connswater]

still like to try to get a grip on the maths myself

You are braver than me. I know my limits, I've spent the last fifty odd years failing to learn French.

I scraped a pass in O Level mathematics in 1978 - or thereabouts - and even physics! But I didn't study/sit chemistry, did get biology, but enjoyed art history more. Seriously, I find a good look at frogbit tells me if I need more chelated iron, art O Level comes in handy, visual texture and colour sensitivity.

I've tried lots of different sequestered iron products over the last nearly 40 years, battling hard water in southern England since leaving my roots in the soft water of the Mourne mountains, my tap water is very hard, and moderately hard in my main tank, after mixing with rain water, I've found that all chelated iron products seemed to work, but yes, I do think probably some need to be added more often than others, if the they are not quite matched to your water hardness. With the right product you only need to add with weekly, or in my case, monthly, water changes. A slightly less long lasting product, maybe a tiny amount every other day. I haven't changed the water in my main tank for...ages...measured Nitrate today, couldn't get a reading, so I might need to think about adding some water column fertiliser, but I have been harvesting floating plants by the handful twice a week for some months now.

Tomato feed products, often have good levels of iron, lots of potassium and not too much nitrate or phosphate, but then, I rarely add much by water column fertilisation, beyond iron, fish poop is manure, and as I've said my tank is well lit and CO2 injected. My maths isn't great but I have a bit of philosophy and 'one size does not fit all'.

Yeast is cheap from the supermarket and I personally found brewer's yeast no more effective than baker's yeast.

Good luck with the 'hard sums'. But more importantly enjoy all the process and ultimately a green nature vibe in your personal living space. On a grey day, my aquarium cheers me up when the lights come on and the plants show natural green vitality.

 

[greying_mantis]

Day 23
At some point I shall move to more sporadic updates but I am still very much in a “high octane” phase with the tank so daily updates continue for the time being.

I grabbed some TNC Complete. Takes the pressure off the ol’ noggin for a bit.

The results of the aged/degassed tap water test are in - pH 8 or just under. Makes sense for my patch of Yorkshire.

My girlfriend (who lives with me and my spouse - a “very modern family”) tried to make bread today and found the yeast utterly unresponsive. That answers that question. New yeast bought, new CO2 mixture made. It has produced a few bubbles but isn’t exactly steaming along. Might just need more time to get going. The ambient temperature in the house is around 18 Celsius - too cold?

The cats were flashing quite intensely today so I’m pretty confident “something is up”. Petri also seemed to be moving his gill plates more than normal, perhaps trying to flush out some discomfort. My aquatic medicine cabinet has not been kept in stock so I bought some Fluke-Solve, eSHa 2000 and eSHa EXIT which should cover quite a lot of ailments and should all be safe for scaleless fish. I am leaning towards treating for flukes unless a new symptom presents itself. Whether the problem has been caused by stress from all the recent upheaval or has some in with some of the new plants is a question I’m unlikely to get an answer to, but I should probably start running plants through some kind of safety dip before planting - bleach? Anti parasite treatment? Something else? Off to the search bar I go.

Also bought some carbon and a new test kit. I like to have the reassurance of being able to quickly check for ammonia and nitrite, especially when using medication/dealing with poorly fish. At least until the tank is more densely planted.

Speaking of, some plants arrived today from another UKAPS member. A huge handful of red root floaters and water lettuce, along with more limnophila sessiliflora and vallis (tiger striped!) More should be arriving tomorrow or the day after from Dennerle and Abyss, including replacement frogbit as mine has all but disintegrated. I’m really excited to see more green (and some red) in the tank 😃

 

[SamTheMan]

Day 23
At some point I shall move to more sporadic updates but I am still very much in a “high octane” phase with the tank so daily updates continue for the time being.

I grabbed some TNC Complete. Takes the pressure off the ol’ noggin for a bit.

The results of the aged/degassed tap water test are in - pH 8 or just under. Makes sense for my patch of Yorkshire.

My girlfriend (who lives with me and my spouse - a “very modern family”) tried to make bread today and found the yeast utterly unresponsive. That answers that question. New yeast bought, new CO2 mixture made. It has produced a few bubbles but isn’t exactly steaming along. Might just need more time to get going. The ambient temperature in the house is around 18 Celsius - too cold?

The cats were flashing quite intensely today so I’m pretty confident “something is up”. Petri also seemed to be moving his gill plates more than normal, perhaps trying to flush out some discomfort. My aquatic medicine cabinet has not been kept in stock so I bought some Fluke-Solve, eSHa 2000 and eSHa EXIT which should cover quite a lot of ailments and should all be safe for scaleless fish. I am leaning towards treating for flukes unless a new symptom presents itself. Whether the problem has been caused by stress from all the recent upheaval or has some in with some of the new plants is a question I’m unlikely to get an answer to, but I should probably start running plants through some kind of safety dip before planting - bleach? Anti parasite treatment? Something else? Off to the search bar I go.

Also bought some carbon and a new test kit. I like to have the reassurance of being able to quickly check for ammonia and nitrite, especially when using medication/dealing with poorly fish. At least until the tank is more densely planted.

Speaking of, some plants arrived today from another UKAPS member. A huge handful of red root floaters and water lettuce, along with more limnophila sessiliflora and vallis (tiger striped!) More should be arriving tomorrow or the day after from Dennerle and Abyss, including replacement frogbit as mine has all but disintegrated. I’m really excited to see more green (and some red) in the tank 😃

Glad to know the plants came ok! looking forward to seeing them in the tank. 👍

 

[greying_mantis]

Day 24

so. many. plants. and it still doesn’t look “heavily” planted! Hopefully it will as things grow in and spread.

At least 3 dozen epiphytes glued down, stem plants & vallis nearly doubled, new Echinodorus and a lot of new crypts. Frogbit replenished. Still some gaps at the back under the internal filter but I’ll fill those when it comes time to trim the stem plants.

The nursery tank is full of tiny stuff that won’t yet survive the synos, who have so far been really well behaved with their new “toys” (though Talbot is giving the helanthium tenellum a good look.)

I made a fishing line barricade for the floaters so they’re all at the front of the tank, allowing the light down behind them. Keeps them out of the flow as well. The Congos are appreciating the canopy.

There’s moss coming next week but I’m not sure I want to drag the hardscape back up again. I’ll see what I can do with superglue under water.

I only fell off the step ladder once.

Tired now.

 

[greying_mantis]

Day 26

The first “weekly”/maintenance water change. I went for 50% as the new test kit did not give me a clean result for nitrite. Surprising as the tank and filter media are very mature but I have been “f-ing around” with it for a few weeks now so maybe I’ve knocked the biofiltration back a bit. I ran the test twice and also compared it to a “clean” water sample so I’m not particularly doubting the result. Hopefully this is just a blip and the filter will catch up soon, with the help of the new plants. If needed I’ll go back to daily water changes.

I considered that the elevated nitrite level may be the cause of the flashing but a couple of suspicious spots have turned up on the fins of the Congo tetra. Sudden disease due to contamination and/or opportunism is one of the other risks of “f-ing around” with a stable (albeit neglected) system. Fortunately the medication I ordered arrived today. With some trepidation I’ve dosed eSHa EXIT (anti-whitespot). I believe it is safe for the synos and they seem unbothered so far but I am anxious nonetheless. The larger female Congo is breathing quite heavily. Hmm.

Everything is very green.

 

[greying_mantis]

Day 27

Second dose of eSHa EXIT. The cats seem to be flashing less and everyone is out-and-about doing fish things. Good.

The floating plants are doing OK this time but all the new growth is rather pallid. I’ve ordered some iron - Solufeed Fe 6% EDDHA 5.3% o-o

The polycarbonate for the lid arrived. I had a bad fatigue day so didn’t manage to unpack it, let alone start work. Hopefully I’ll be able to take a look at it tomorrow.

Signing off 🫡