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Ongoing, consistent, plant growth problems and deficiencies

Hi all,
isonychia said:
I would like to hear more about the excess of "X" affecting the uptake of "X" premise.
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It is often just a numbers game, if you have a lot of Ca++ ions in solution, and not many Mg++ ions, the next ion to diffuse through the cell membrane is much more likely to be a Ca++, rather than a Mg++, ion.

There is plenty of work on deficiency symptoms and <"agricultural crops">, but a lot of it doesn't differentiate between ionic and pH effects (and these are often linked).

cheers Darrel
 
The only use for a pH controller would be to set it so it would prevent lethal CO2 dose ( malfunctioning system). To have it controle the pH would risk fluctuating CO2 levels which in turn could cause algae.
pH drops through CO2 delivery are no problem for the fish ( extreme CO2 levels on the other hand are lethal).
Using the pH to ascertain your CO2 delivery is helpfull, a pen would be best and most acurate.
 
Edvet said:
The only use for a pH controller would be to set it so it would prevent lethal CO2 dose ( malfunctioning system). To have it controle the pH would risk fluctuating CO2 levels which in turn could cause algae.
pH drops through CO2 delivery are no problem for the fish ( extreme CO2 levels on the other hand are lethal).
Using the pH to ascertain your CO2 delivery is helpfull, a pen would be best and most acurate.
Click to expand...

Understood. Can you suggest a particular Milwaukee pen? I could spend hours researching which one to buy. 🙂

Also, besides RO water any other suggestions as to what my problems are or what I can try?

I'm not sure how much more I can "dial it in" (I hate that phrase) my CO2. If I increase it my fish will gasp at the surface. All it takes is one more UP tick on the needle valve. I have tried it before. I cannot inject more.

If I exhaust EVERY option I will probably go out and buy 2 months worth of distilled water and cut my tap as I tried before. I guess I can try it again. But when I did it for a month 50/50 distilled/tap I didn't notice any benefits. Maybe it needs to be for a longer period. I would try that before I invest the time/money/energy into using an RO unit. I would almost rather change my tank to keep hard water plants before I go the whole RO route. If I do 50/50 distilled/tap thats 8 weeks of water changes.
1st water change: 8 gallons distilled and 8 gallons existing tap in tank. The remaining 7 water changes get 4 gallons of distilled/4 gallons tap. So that 4x7=28 28 +8=36 gallons of distilled water in my 2 months test period. Thats a lot of shopping carts full of distilled water.

iso
 
For me it's hard to see deficiencies ( using EI macro's and micro's).
In general dose plenty and do large waterchanges should work.
Two possible problems i see are: 1) something wonky in your well water 2) not enough maintenace ( either diy ( rub the leaves clean) or use a maintenance crew: snails, shrimp)
You could invest in RO water to cut your well water 50%, i would still do 50% waterchanges every week to reset EI, but maintain that for at least 6 weeks to see results, combined with the best maintenance you can provide.
Any seawater shops nearby, they sell RO water.
 
Hi all,
isonychia said:
went back to the DTPA iron from GLA.
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Can you get a micro or iron mix with added manganese? It is clutching at straws, but I note that neither ICP analysis recorded any manganese (Mn). In the UK you can get <"Chempak sequestered iron with magnesium and manganese">, but I'm not sure what you can get in the States.
Edvet said:
Any seawater shops nearby, they sell RO water.
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Would rain-water be an option for you? I've used it since the 1970's without any problems.

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all, Can you get a micro or iron mix with added manganese? It is clutching at straws, but I note that neither ICP analysis recorded any manganese (Mn). In the UK you can get <"Chempak sequestered iron with magnesium and manganese">, but I'm not sure what you can get in the States.Would rain-water be an option for you? I've used it since the 1970's without any problems.

cheers Darrel
Click to expand...

Hi Darrel,

Adding Manganese was the last thing I tried and continue to dose along with my micros. This is what I purchased.
https://greenleafaquariums.com/products/manganese-sulfate-mnso4-0-25lb.html
This was the last idea suggested by a planted tank member trying to help me after I posted my ICP water test results. Sorry I didn't mention it already. I dose slightly less than 1/64 tsp with my micros 3X a week. I did not notice any benefit in the 2 months I have been adding it.
I'm not sure we get enough rain currently to use it as a consistent source. There are aquarium shops near me that sell RO water. But if I do that I might as well as just buy the distilled gallons at the grocery store for my testing purposes.

In all my searches I keep seeing people with similar problems/deficiencies (older leaves yellowing with brown tips, general chlorosis on older leaves, lower leaves falling off) as mine and people suggesting it's a mobile nutrient problem. Or possibly a combination of mobile nutrients and the chlorosis as being iron. Being that I dose EI I should not be deficient on any nutrients.

I really wish I could get this figured out. I do all the work, all the water changes, maintenance etc and get zero satisfaction due to such poor growth/health of my plants. It really sucks. All the time I spent learning in this hobby, it's almost comical that I still cant figure this out. I would really like to create a new tank. A 33 breeder setup with partial emersed growth. But I cant even get there as I fear I will run into the same problems.
I did the water test because I was out of ideas. I figure there must be something that would surface in that water test from ICP.
Were you able to take a look at my towns detailed water report in the link I provided. I realize it's a lot of data. Just figured I would provide it again.
Go to this link and in the "Water system name" type in "Waldwick".
https://www9.state.nj.us/DEP_WaterWatch_public/index.jsp

There is information in there like "Carbonate Hardness: 418 MG/L" tested in 2019

Thanks
iso
 
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Hi all,
isonychia said:
it's almost comical that I still cant figure this out.
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I don't think there is a simple (or possibly single) answer. Your water is quite different from what the majority of us are supplied with.

All I can think is that the hardness and large amount of sodium (Na+), calcium (Ca++) and magnesium (Mg++) is interfering with the uptake of one of the other cations.

Do you know what the conductivity of your tank water is? (either in microS or as ppm TDS) .

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all,I don't think there is a simple (or possibly single) answer. Your water is quite different from what the majority of us are supplied with.

All I can think is that the hardness and large amount of sodium (Na+), calcium (Ca++) and magnesium (Mg++) is interfering with the uptake of one of the other cations.

Do you know what the conductivity of your tank water is? (either in microS or as ppm TDS) .

cheers Darrel
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I'm not sure how I would find out the conductivity. I can test for it if you tell me how.
Is it through a TDS meter?
 
Interesting read this I had a similar situation, very poor nd stunted growth...I was dosing EI, played around with the ratios, running CO2 at nose bleed levels, light increase and decrease with still no better results. Everything is automated lights frets and CO2, so I know that I everything was constang

I then embarked on strict maintenance regime near on 100% water change weekly making sure all detritus was removed and the tank was spotless. Added an air stone to run for 6 hours overnight....the change in plant growth had been dramatic.

My conclusion is that maintenance is the most important aspect of the high energy tank.
 
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