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Olympus is Calling.

Hi all,
jaypeecee said:
I would like to try using Miracle-Gro All Purpose liquid fertilizer in a planted tank with no livestock. Its nitrogen composition is as follows:
  • Urea Nitrogen 3.5%
  • Nitric Nitrogen 1.7%
  • Ammoniacal Nitrogen 1.8%
The recommended dose of this product is 15ml/litre of water for horticultural use.
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I'd probably go on the 7% total nitrogen. so that is approx. 0.07g (or 70 mg) in 1 mL of liquid fertiliser.

Milligrams per litre (mg/L) and ppm are equivalent measurements so 1 mL of fertiliser in 1 litre is equivalent to 70ppm and 1 mL in 10 litres = 7ppm. That is probably a bit conservative, so 2 mL in 10 litre would give you 14ppm.

You would need to work out how much of each of the other nutrients you are adding, based upon the 2 mL per 10 litre dosing. Phosphorus (P) content will be quoted as <"P2O5 and potassium (K) as K2O">.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi @dw1305 and everyone,

On second thoughts, I think Miracle-Gro All Purpose liquid fertilizer is possibly not such a good idea - phosphorus (P) is 1.3% and potassium (K) is 4.2%. These figures are high when compared with, for example, Tropica Specialised Nutrition for which the corresponding figures are 0.1% and 1.03%, respectively. I suspect that the high proportion of phosphorus in Miracle-Gro may promote algae and that the proportion of potassium wouldn't go down well with fish. Although I wasn't planning to have any livestock in this test tank, I may as well save myself some time and choose an alternative to Miracle-Gro.

It is always possible that I have made an error in my reasoning above as most of my grey matter is exhausted! I'll check it over again tomorrow.

JPC
 
Zeus. said:
well would say 'nature' but not aiming at a style 'per sa' just doing it as I like.

The list of plants 'Gaz' at TGM thought suitable was, got my markers ready

Cyperus hefferi
View attachment 94931
Staurogyne repens
View attachment 94932
Alternathera reinideri 'mini'
View attachment 94933
Micranthemum 'monte carlo'
View attachment 94934 But not as a carpet just between some of the rocks
Echrinodorus tennelleys (helenathsum)
View attachment 94935

Anablas bart nano 'petite' (on wood)
View attachment 94936
Cryptuconyne parra
View attachment 94937
Linderhia tohindifulia
View attachment 94938
Bucepandoreia wavy green (on wood)
View attachment 94939
Mosses ( dribyone/weeping moss)
View attachment 94940
Microseruim trident
View attachment 94941


But Still think its worth getting both sides with rock that works together first place wood estimate light in areas as will be shadows too, can always adjust spacing, getting to know each rock personally :LOL:

------------

Made a Noob mistake forgot the support for the rocks etc

eg

View attachment 94912

so got myself some porous pavers. stripped the tank except the ADA PS and bridge the PS

View attachment 100338

got myself a power planer and have been rather busy.


wall panels fitted to base, QD OFC (y)
View attachment 100339

Kessil light hanger (temp OFC) reduced height and width so can position lights in center or move six inches to enable to see the difference having eight would make to both sides. soldered and compression fitting from cache

View attachment 100342

Finding it hard to get a decent photo of hardscape as there isnt a fixed viewing position so any I take look much poorer than the naked eye , tried taking video on iphone but then the 100Mb file refused to send via email to PC complete noob at taking videos then getting them right size to publish, would read how to do it but got other things to do :LOL:. Getting close to want I'm happy with but need to take it all out to adjust the porous pavers 'maybe'. Was at LFS with son ,which had a few pieces of sieryu stone which had my name on them too .

Still a way off before critique time
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Hi Zeus.
I've been scouring your brilliant journal and am in the last phases of my tank planning stage.
I just wanted to ask about the porous pavers, if you have a moment? I haven't seen anyone using them before but they make sense to me. Lots of videos on Youtube simply put the rocks directly on the glass but that scares me a bit.

-Is that black landscaping fabric underneath them and did you leave that in when you did the final tank build please?
-Also, did you fill the voids with aqua soil and if so has any of they all remained covered when your tank became established or been exposed here and there due to shrimp activity/general erosion?

Thanks in advance!
Dave
 
Hi Tim, and thank you for your kind words😀

The black fabric I used was to prevent the 'ADA Power Sand' (base layer) making its way up to the top of the ADA Aqua Soil (AS). I would not use ADA power sand again (as I don't think it makes any difference). Other issue I have had in another tank when I covered AS with the sae fabric then cover with gravel it worked well keeping the AS in place - until I came to move some well rooted plants, the fabric came up with the plants and reshape was needed.

The black fabric was underneath the porous pavers and yes I did leave it in. All voids was fill with ADA AS and non have been exposed over the years so the porous pavers have stopped the rocks sinking in the AS IMO

I am planning to 'rescape' tank soon as moving, it will be the same hardscape, but different substrate, an inert one and plan to use the porous pavers again and no fabric. Not that I would advise anyone not to use AS, I wont to see 'if' the same scape can be redone with inert substrate, so more of an experiment to see 'if' the use use of AS has any advantage with a scape that will be running for years.
 
Zeus. said:
Hi Tim, and thank you for your kind words😀

The black fabric I used was to prevent the 'ADA Power Sand' (base layer) making its way up to the top of the ADA Aqua Soil (AS). I would not use ADA power sand again (as I don't think it makes any difference). Other issue I have had in another tank when I covered AS with the sae fabric then cover with gravel it worked well keeping the AS in place - until I came to move some well rooted plants, the fabric came up with the plants and reshape was needed.

The black fabric was underneath the porous pavers and yes I did leave it in. All voids was fill with ADA AS and non have been exposed over the years so the porous pavers have stopped the rocks sinking in the AS IMO

I am planning to 'rescape' tank soon as moving, it will be the same hardscape, but different substrate, an inert one and plan to use the porous pavers again and no fabric. Not that I would advise anyone not to use AS, I wont to see 'if' the same scape can be redone with inert substrate, so more of an experiment to see 'if' the use use of AS has any advantage with a scape that will be running for years.
Click to expand...
Thank you. I really appreciate your response. It’s quite a learning curve this aquascaping lark! Can’t wait to get started now.
 
Zeus. said:
Hi Tim, and thank you for your kind words😀

The black fabric I used was to prevent the 'ADA Power Sand' (base layer) making its way up to the top of the ADA Aqua Soil (AS). I would not use ADA power sand again (as I don't think it makes any difference). Other issue I have had in another tank when I covered AS with the sae fabric then cover with gravel it worked well keeping the AS in place - until I came to move some well rooted plants, the fabric came up with the plants and reshape was needed.

The black fabric was underneath the porous pavers and yes I did leave it in. All voids was fill with ADA AS and non have been exposed over the years so the porous pavers have stopped the rocks sinking in the AS IMO

I am planning to 'rescape' tank soon as moving, it will be the same hardscape, but different substrate, an inert one and plan to use the porous pavers again and no fabric. Not that I would advise anyone not to use AS, I wont to see 'if' the same scape can be redone with inert substrate, so more of an experiment to see 'if' the use use of AS has any advantage with a scape that will be running for years.
Click to expand...
I look forward to hearing how your inert substrate goes. Be interesting to see how your dosing compares.
 
EA James said:
Evening @Zeus.
Happy new year to you matey, Was just wondering how the house move is going and what your plans are with the tank moving forward?
All the best

James
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Happy new year too. In the waiting phase for all the searches coming back back then we should be good to go.
 
Zeus. said:
Happy new year too. In the waiting phase for all the searches coming back back then we should be good to go.
Click to expand...
Ok well fingers crossed it goes well for you. What will you do with the tank then? Complete rescape or are you going to try and save it? Be such a shame to take it down but i guess there is only one way?!
 
EA James said:
Ok well fingers crossed it goes well for you. What will you do with the tank then? Complete rescape or are you going to try and save it? Be such a shame to take it down but i guess there is only one way?!
Click to expand...

Thinking trim all the trident, Bolbitis etc back to rhizomes and put in smaller holding tank with low light with other plants Anubis, buce etc so will be a bit of floating jungle for few/several/many months so will need 100 to 150litre tank.
Then same scape without AS just grit/sand and start with DSM.

So basically same scape without AS and probably RO water. We have lots of plans for house which will be taking priority, so could well be some time, plus there's always the chance something comes up on the searches or the seller changes their mind about selling. Its not a deal until all the paperwork is signed and the property is ours 😬
 
jaypeecee said:
In my naivety, I was expecting the plants to gobble up the ammonium but that didn't happen.
Click to expand...

Hi Folks,

I have done an interim experiment. But, I intend to do this yet again as I have managed to obtain a small quantity of high-purity urea. And, this time, I'll take on board all the useful suggestions from @dw1305. I would have included these suggestions this time around had I been successful in tracking them down. But, if I'd done a more thorough search, I would have found them. My bad.

So, the key difference this time around was the inclusion of floating plants - Amazon Frogbit, to be precise. Starting ammonium was 0.5 ppm, nitrite was 0.05 ppm and nitrate was 3 - 5 ppm. pH was 7.2. In just under 24 hours (i.e. including overnight), ammonium had dropped to < 0.05 ppm, nitrite was 0.1 - 0.2 ppm and nitrate was 5 ppm. In other words, virtually all the ammonium appears to have been taken up by the plants. The nitrifying microbes missed out this time.

JPC
 
jaypeecee said:
In other words, virtually all the ammonium appears to have been taken up by the plants. The nitrifying microbes missed out this time.
Click to expand...
Or maybe also the plants mopped up quite a bit of NO3 and also the nitrifying microbes converted the Ammonium to nitrite and then to nitrate so there looks like the nitrate level seem unchanged
 
Zeus. said:
Or maybe also the plants mopped up quite a bit of NO3 and also the nitrifying microbes converted the Ammonium to nitrite and then to nitrate so there looks like the nitrate level seem unchanged
Click to expand...

Hi @Zeus.

Whilst it's entirely possible that the plants could absorb nitrate, I doubt that the oxidation of ammonium via nitrite to nitrate would happen in less than 24 hours. But, who knows? Based on scientific research, it has also been demonstrated that most aquarium plants preferentially take up ammonium instead of nitrite or nitrate. And this was my starting point. In her book*, Diana Walstad has a section entitled "Aquatic Plants Prefer Leaf Uptake of Ammonium" (pp 106 onwards). It makes for very interesting reading.

* Ecology of the Planted Aquarium

JPC
 
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Thanks for heading me to your journal, interesting read indeed. For me the tank looks great, if a little bit too technical for me
 
Moving looks like its happening and it might be happening quick so thought it would be prudent to make a start.

Thought I would trim all the Trident and Bolbitis Heuelotii right back to the rhizome ready for ease of move and ready for next setup. As all the leaves take up lots of space, one small portion below.
1613422644274.png

Tied all the rhizomes together in batches with garden wire and weigh them down with some ceramic, then popped them back in tank. The Trident I just trimmed back to the rhizome and left it attached to the wood.
Several hours later
 
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