Oase Biomaster Pro 2 - Comming Soon

[FrozenShivers]

Fluval haven't changed there design for decades, makes you wonder why Oase feel the need to "fix" things... if it ain't broken...

They are a business and need to innovate/improve like everyone else or get left behind. Their Biomaster series isn't some sort of "perfect" filter that can't be improved, if they have worked on some of the key complaints from customers or found flaws which can be fixed then it's a good thing to do so.

 

[Maf 2500]

I really think if Oase can add a little more to the footprint, then they could be going somewhere.

Even in my tiny little aquarium cupboard, adding an extra 2 inches to the width and length would add another 170 cubic inches of biomedia capacity. Which is the equivalent of having 2.5 more 20 PPI sponges in the 350.

The way I see it Oase have likely sized these filters compared to the pumps such that dissolved oxygen is the limiting factor - ie. pretty much all the dissolved oxygen is being used up by the amount of biomedia present. For example the extra flow between a 600 and a 350 is enough to supply oxygen to an additional tray's worth of media under typical conditions. So, if they increased the footprint they have just made a bigger filter, that then requires a bigger pump to make use of the extra media with the associated increased running costs and increase in weight when maintenance is needed. Not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but an enlarged (in footprint) 250 or 350 is going to be a replacement for an 850 rather than one of the smaller models.

I think a more likely scenario is that eventually they decide they are going to need a higher output model than the 850, which quite frankly cannot increase in height, so must increase in footprint! At that juncture they keep the smaller footprint for the 3 lowest output models and introduce a significantly bigger footprint for a new 850, which is the same height as the current 250, with one tray higher variants of 1200 and 1600 matching the heights of the current 350 and 600. If they really wanted to go for it they could add a 2000 which would be the same height as the current 850. These models would either have increased hose diameter or be double hosed. Hopefully by the time they are ready to introduce these they are also transitioning to dc pumps with electronically controllable output. (wishful thinking!)

 

[Maf 2500]

Regarding the Fluval comparison, this company has constantly introduced new models that are slight improvements on the old models, for example 304 -> 305 -> 306 -> 307. Many core components are the same between generations, which will save tooling costs, but there are differences also. This seems to be the same kind of upgrade path Oase has taken with the Biomaster.

 

[Bradders]

I think a more likely scenario is that eventually they decide they are going to need a higher output model than the 850, which quite frankly cannot increase in height, so must increase in footprint! At that juncture they keep the smaller footprint for the 3 lowest output models and introduce a significantly bigger footprint for a new 850, which is the same height as the current 250, with one tray higher variants of 1200 and 1600 matching the heights of the current 350 and 600. If they really wanted to go for it they could add a 2000 which would be the same height as the current 850. These models would either have increased hose diameter or be double hosed. Hopefully by the time they are ready to introduce these they are also transitioning to dc pumps with electronically controllable output. (wishful thinking!)

I reckon that is some good thinking! (Although I have heard that DC pumps can be slightly intolerant to sand?)

The way I see it Oase have likely sized these filters compared to the pumps such that dissolved oxygen is the limiting factor - ie. pretty much all the dissolved oxygen is being used up by the amount of biomedia present. For example the extra flow between a 600 and a 350 is enough to supply oxygen to an additional tray's worth of media under typical conditions. So, if they increased the footprint they have just made a bigger filter, that then requires a bigger pump to make use of the extra media with the associated increased running costs and increase in weight when maintenance is needed. Not necessarily a bad thing in itself, but an enlarged (in footprint) 250 or 350 is going to be a replacement for an 850 rather than one of the smaller models.

I think this is interesting and probably needs @dw1305 to opine. Oxygen exchange is (when properly set up) always taking place. i.e. surface agitation causes oxygen to come in and CO2 to go out. When you have a heavily stocked aquarium, you will have to ensure that the gas exchange meets the needs of the inhabitants - especially during the overnight period. Assuming proper gas exchanges from agitation, pumps) then the water should be 5-7ppm/l saturated with dissolved oxygen. I agree you need a stronger pump to create that turbulent flow through the filter media. However, as long as the flow of water contains, for example, 6ppm/l, then I am not sure that a massively improved pump is required to deliver oxygen to the microbes in the bio-media. You can argue that just a 3 x turnover through the filter of 6ppm/l dissolved oxygen water should be enough.

 

[Maf 2500]

I think this is interesting and probably needs @dw1305 to opine. Oxygen exchange is (when properly set up) always taking place. i.e. surface agitation causes oxygen to come in and CO2 to go out. When you have a heavily stocked aquarium, you will have to ensure that the gas exchange meets the needs of the inhabitants - especially during the overnight period. Assuming proper gas exchanges from agitation, pumps) then the water should be 5-7ppm/l saturated with dissolved oxygen. I agree you need a stronger pump to create that turbulent flow through the filter media. However, as long as the flow of water contains, for example, 6ppm/l, then I am not sure that a massively improved pump is required to deliver oxygen to the microbes in the bio-media. You can argue that just a 3 x turnover through the filter of 6ppm/l dissolved oxygen water should be enough.

The point I was trying to make was that the bacteria in the filter consumes oxygen in the nitrification process, so water entering the filter at average dissolved oxygen levels only contains a finite amount of oxygen to be used up in the closed environment of the filter. Therefore there is a direct relationship between flow rate and effective media volume, and increasing media beyond a certain point is ineffective without a proportional increase in flow, and maybe the Oase engineers are aware of this. I am pretty sure @dw1305 has commented before that oxygen is the limiting factor in canister filters (and it would make sense that this was the case).

I saw in your post on another thread that you have purchased a dissolved oxygen meter. Maybe you could compare the oxygen levels in the input (tank level) versus the oxygen level in the filter output. I think you would have to be very quick to get an accurate measurement on the output water as it would take in oxygen from the atmosphere rapidly.

 

[Bradders]

I saw in your post on another thread that you have purchased a dissolved oxygen meter. Maybe you could compare the oxygen levels in the input (tank level) versus the oxygen level in the filter output. I think you would have to be very quick to get an accurate measurement on the output water as it would take in oxygen from the atmosphere rapidly.

I think that is doable. However, as you say, it will be hard to get a good reading due to the speed and variables. However, it's a blooming good (if somewhat basic) test! I'll do this on the next water change day over the weekend.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The point I was trying to make was that the bacteria in the filter consumes oxygen in the nitrification process, so water entering the filter at average dissolved oxygen levels only contains a finite amount of oxygen to be used up in the closed environment of the filter.

That is it. You could have a liquid with a very high Biochemical Oxygen Demand (BOD), like <"raw sewage">, where it would be impossible to get enough oxygen into it for <"full nitrification to occur in a sealed container">.

Therefore there is a direct relationship between flow rate and effective media volume, and increasing media beyond a certain point is ineffective without a proportional increase in flow, and maybe the Oase engineers are aware of this. I am pretty sure @dw1305 has commented before that oxygen is the limiting factor in canister filters (and it would make sense that this was the case).

Yes. The higher the BOD of the liquid is the <"more oxygen you need to get into the filter">, if you aren't <"pumping in extra oxygen?"> You need to increase the flow rate through the filter.

I saw in your post on another thread that you have purchased a dissolved oxygen meter. Maybe you could compare the oxygen levels in the input (tank level) versus the oxygen level in the filter output. I think you would have to be very quick to get an accurate measurement on the output water as it would take in oxygen from the atmosphere rapidly.

That is the problem, you can get probes that are designed to sit inside a fermentation tank etc. and measure oxygen levels, but as soon as the water leaves the filter oxygen levels will begin to rise.

The rate at which oxygen dissolves will be dependent upon the gradient across the gas exchange surface, but oxygen isn't very soluble, so you will get some idea from the DO levels in the outflow.

Cheers Darrel