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no HC growth in 3 weeks.. confusing.. any help?

R

Rabb.D

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Joined
3 Nov 2010
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139
Location
Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia
like the title says there's no growth in 3 weeks... due to lack of experience, i'm not too sure whether this is to be expected or i'm doing something wrong.. the HC is also stringy and melting to a certain degree but stops short of just dying away... very strange and barely any pearling for the whole 3 weeks especially after raising the lights... wondering whats wrong... any help?

IMG_8728.jpg
 
Some questions:
- do you have co2?
- do you dose ferts?
- what lighting do you have an what is the lighting period?
- what substrate?

HC needs good co2, ferts and light to grow. 🙂


___________________________
 
ghostsword said:
Some questions:
- do you have co2?
- do you dose ferts?
- what lighting do you have an what is the lighting period?
- what substrate?

HC needs good co2, ferts and light to grow. 🙂


___________________________
Click to expand...

i do have co2 is use dropchecker which is usually light green in 3 hours from startup it settles at 2 bubbles per second

i do dose ferts - KNO3, KH2PO4, MgSO4, and Fe using EI ppm measurements and dosing

my lighting is 2X39watt t5ho from 2pm to 12am... 10 hours--- 20cm from water level

my substrate is ADA Amazonia normal grain 3x9l pack

any help appreciated... thanks
 
skeletonw00t said:
Whats the flow like at the bottom?
Click to expand...

i have a power head at the right front top corner, at the front bottom where the HC is at using a ruler and counting i'm guessing it moves about 2inch to 2.5 inch per second

actually its not light green its lime green i'm thinking the co2 is not enough... 2 bubbles per second most of the time
 
Your lights are on for quite a long time, I would cut back to 6-8hrs.

Upping the co2 if you are able might also help.

All this said I've struggled with HC of the years, I've managed a carpet a couple fof times, but more often than not I get exactly the same result as you - no grown and it gradually dies of over the course of a few weeks.

If you find out what the cause is do let me know!

Sam
 
Themuleous said:
Your lights are on for quite a long time, I would cut back to 6-8hrs.

Upping the co2 if you are able might also help.

All this said I've struggled with HC of the years, I've managed a carpet a couple fof times, but more often than not I get exactly the same result as you - no grown and it gradually dies of over the course of a few weeks.

If you find out what the cause is do let me know!

Sam
Click to expand...

hmmm this is really bugging me... really wanted to conquer HC for a long time... will keep trying.. thanks though
 
Add more CO2.
Add more flow.

Turn the gas on a few hours before the lights are turned on. Lime green or yellow should occur at lights on, not three hours after lights on. by that time it's already too late.

You did not specify the size of the tank, therefore 2 bps has no meaning. 2 bps might be fine in a nano but is poor in a 200L tank.

How much flow rating is in the tank?

Melting and rotting plants are always a sign of poor CO2/flow.

Cheers,
 
ceg4048 said:
Add more CO2.
Add more flow.

Turn the gas on a few hours before the lights are turned on. Lime green or yellow should occur at lights on, not three hours after lights on. by that time it's already too late.

You did not specify the size of the tank, therefore 2 bps has no meaning. 2 bps might be fine in a nano but is poor in a 200L tank.

How much flow rating is in the tank?

Melting and rotting plants are always a sign of poor CO2/flow.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

that must be the issue... i cant figure it out though... but you're right lime green 3 hours after lights on.. 2 bubbles per second in 182 liter tank 90x45x45 cm tank... seems way to little... flow is a bit confusing, i'm using ehiem 2217 rated at 1000l/h so i'm guessing its about 600 l/h or less considering all the inhibitions.. right i have a chiller and co2 reactor attached with the ehiem 2217... the powerhead i think is china made.. supposedly 2000l/h which is crazy but i'm guessing at 200+300l/h just a guess.. i'll try get a better powerhead
 
Well, having a total 2000LPH flow rating on a 180L tank is more or less OK as this complies with the 10X rule and the rule takes into account the low output of the filters. What the 10X rule cannot address is the manner in which you are distributing the flow energy. If you do not arrange the filter outlets in a way that is additive then you will cause flow cancellation and disruption. getting flow and CO2 to the bottom of the tank is actually very difficult, and many people fail with plants such as HC and glosso because they refuse to pay attention to flow distribution.

You need to have all filter outlets pointing in the same direction and not in opposite directions. When you have good flow distribution in the tank, and when you have a good injection rate, the plants will be able to utilize the CO2. In the meantime, as an emergency measure, if you have access to liquid carbon products then you can supplement your CO2 by adding these each morning, before it's too late. You can also improve your distribution by using external CO2 reactors instead of in-tank diffusers. See the thread viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1167

After you're able to arrest the rotting/browning of the HC, you can then trim them to help them grow more nearer the substrate instead of growing upwards. The upwards growth is also a sign of poor flow at the substrate level.

Cheers,
 
ceg4048 said:
Well, having a total 2000LPH flow rating on a 180L tank is more or less OK as this complies with the 10X rule and the rule takes into account the low output of the filters. What the 10X rule cannot address is the manner in which you are distributing the flow energy. If you do not arrange the filter outlets in a way that is additive then you will cause flow cancellation and disruption. getting flow and CO2 to the bottom of the tank is actually very difficult, and many people fail with plants such as HC and glosso because they refuse to pay attention to flow distribution.

You need to have all filter outlets pointing in the same direction and not in opposite directions. When you have good flow distribution in the tank, and when you have a good injection rate, the plants will be able to utilize the CO2. In the meantime, as an emergency measure, if you have access to liquid carbon products then you can supplement your CO2 by adding these each morning, before it's too late. You can also improve your distribution by using external CO2 reactors instead of in-tank diffusers. See the thread viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1167

After you're able to arrest the rotting/browning of the HC, you can then trim them to help them grow more nearer the substrate instead of growing upwards. The upwards growth is also a sign of poor flow at the substrate level.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

ok thanks... read the link, and the link in the link... was always thinking of getting another eheim 2217.. didnt know why, now i have a reason 😀
 
i just added another powerhead, which now creates seemingly sufficient circular flow throughout the tank... right now i have the lights which are 2x39 t5ho 20cm from the water surface... will getting a stronger fixture maybe 4x39 or 3x39 watt help the HC to grow faster?
 
Why would you want to add more light if you are having difficulty with CO2? More light creates a demand for more CO2. Adding more light without solving your CO2 problem just makes a bigger CO2 problem, so if you want to annihilate your HC even faster than you are now then go right ahead.

Cheers,
 
I totally agree re flow distribution.

I have a very similar tank size, a 1400lph filter, the same lighting (about 5cm above water surface) and an hc carpet.

It was growing, but slowly. Messing around with the filter outlet position had little effect. Then I adding 2x 1800lph powerheads and it's gone nuts!

Filter spraybar is along the back directing water towards the front, so water hits the front, goes down & across the bottom. Powerheads are on each side - one pointing slightly towards the back, the other slightly towards the front - creating a circular flow around the tank. I'm pretty confident the positions suit the tank due to the growth seen & distribution of CO2 bubbles.

Re CO2, I have a ceramic diffuser - I know this is not the best for disolving the gas, but dead spot / good flow can be seen easily due to the bubbles everywhere! Mine comes on 2hrs before lights & the drop checker is green (going towards yellowish, but not quite) and runs at more bps than I can count - prob about 8 at a guess.
 
ceg4048 said:
Why would you want to add more light if you are having difficulty with CO2? More light creates a demand for more CO2. Adding more light without solving your CO2 problem just makes a bigger CO2 problem, so if you want to annihilate your HC even faster than you are now then go right ahead.

Cheers,
Click to expand...

🙁 i posted the question under the assumption that i've solved my co2 distribution and flow problems, i now have 2x2000l/h powerhead distributing very good flow around the tank(seems to be good continuous flow around the tank) and changed to the large sized ista max mix co2 reactor to so there's more space for the co2 to diffuse before entering the tank, now i have lime green on lights on..

so i thought i had the luxury of increasing light for faster growth, since i'm getting slightly impatient... but i guess i wasn't being rationale...
 
Well, yes you are being impatient, and impatience often leads to trouble. You first have to confirm that the changes you made actually work otherwise you will have stepped into a maze, not knowing cause or effect. The only way you can confirm whetehr your actions are valid is to observe that the browning and decaying has been arrested and that new growth starts to appear. This might take a few days or a few weeks. AS Chris mentions, this is a tricky tank shape, so there may be some more tweaking involved. Get this right first before upping the stakes with more light.

Cheers,
 
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