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New tank lighting suggestions

I will say, I haven't tried LED before but I have seen tanks running them and the plants are growing insane! TMC's 1000 ND tile might be a good one to look into but rather costly. The size of the tank is the problem! I think you should just by a nano tank!😉 :lol:
 
Haha no way man!

Maybe I'm biting more than I can chew, only time will tell.

Trog if you could recommend specific items to look into, I'd be really grateful. 🙂 If fluorescent tubes work out significantly cheaper than expected, I'll be happy to maybe buy some additional LED setup purely for night time aesthetics under low light conditions.
 
Kogre,
I would look at using the forum light manufacturers supporters in the first instance and see what they are recommending for your price range. I am sure there will be a variety of solutions open to you.Then I would do a general investigation of the lighting units available. If you are looking for six foot length lighting coverage then your options drastically reduce in aqaurium fluorescent, as this lamp length has limited support from manufacturers due to the tube damages that occur.
Once you have gained an insight as to what lighting technology you are after look through the internet wholesalers (who support this forum) to review aquarium lighting products, as it is all together this will give you a good idea of pricing comparison levels. There is nothing that beats good old fashioned product research to improve ones understanding of the lighting market.🙂 Then if you are still requiring assistance I will be able to pm you. 😉
 
Great stuff thanks for the heads up. I'll do just that.

ceg, I guess my "fixation" is born of articles on this very site and others out there that suggest good growth rates can be achieved with CO2, good flow rates, fertilization through substrate or water column and higher than 2wpg of lighting before the *ahem* uptake of naturally diffused CO2 would need to be supplemented using artificial means of CO2 injection to the point of crazy levels of exaggeration (crazier than naturally diffused CO2 anyway). Going by a particular article on this site that i have read, sub 2wpg doesn't need additional CO2.

I'm sure this information is incorrect, after all exposure to injected CO2 would provide a burst of growth no matter the actual wpg, provided the photoperiod is of sufficient length to perhaps make up for the lack of intensity. It might end up being something I'll experiment with if I don't end up achieving over 2 wpg, but for now I'm still no further than when I first began.
 
Well, I think you need to forget about wpg because plants do not care about wpg. Any wpg in one tank results in a completely different spectral energy level as the same wpg in a different size tank. When you have a better understanding of lighting and in planted tanks in general, you will see that the wpg is an easy number by which to gauge the light intensity. That ability to judge roughly is borne of experience. Some people move from medium sized tanks, where the wpg guidelines have a greater accuracy, to keeping large tanks or small tanks, and they find that the guidelines get them into a lot of trouble. You will find that 2wpg of T5 in a 200 gallon tank will cause no end to grief, because that is a lot of light. 400 watts of T5 will annihilate the plants unless near toxic levels of CO2, combined with awesome flow are administered. On the other hand, 60 watts of T5 over a 30 gallon tank is very manageable. Just think about having having eyes wide open looking at 400 watts from a distance of 2 or 3 feet compared to looking at 60 watts from a distance of 1 foot. There is no comparison. You cannot equate the spectral energy of the two just because some goofy arithmetic gives the same answer when you divide the numbers. Light is more complicated than that.

Check this out. These are a couple of my favorite Ollie Knott scapes. If you do the wpg calculation you'll find that they are below 2wpg and he didn't have any trouble getting nice growth.
560 liter layout by Oliver Knott ( Year 2003) Photo Gallery by Oliver Knott the aqua creator at pbase.com

560 liter layout by Oliver Knott ( Year 2003) Photo Gallery by Oliver Knott the aqua creator at pbase.com

Some people write in to ask him how he can grow plants with such low wpg, and I imagine in his mind he'd want to ask in return "How can you grow plants with such high wpg?"

If you have excellent flow and CO2, you can achieve good growth rates and at the same time avoid algae and other health related problems. Algae love high light, so if you want to spend your time cleaning algae from a 200 gallon tank then that choice is yours. And many of those people who are suggesting that high wpg is a prerequisite are the same people who are suffering problems in the tank, but, they never blame their problems on wpg. They always find some other reason.

High light requires high CO2. It requires high nutrition. It requires high maintenance. If you just have a little bit of patience, you can achieve the same results that high light produces. It will just take a little longer.

No one can tell you what The Matrix is. You have to discover it for yourself....

Cheers,
 
Thanks for the informative post. Those links and your information have put my mind at ease somewhat.

Of course light is complicated. I'd argue it's one of the most complicated things in the universe. 🙂

If the lighting I end up with is shorter than the tank by a rough 8 inches, is that a big deal?
 
Well, it's only a big deal if it doesn't look nice visually. If the edges are very dim, then what happens is that plants at the edges will grow toward the light, so they will appear to lean towards the center of the tank. Of course this can be compensated for by the scape arrangement. So for example, your scape might be better off more centrally focused with more hardscape and/or shorter plants at the edges.

If you're saying that it's eight inches short in total then does that mean 4 inches on either edge? If so then it's much less of an issue. If this were to be a suspended arrangement then raising the suspension would give a better spread out to the edges, but if it's a hood then you are locked into that geometry.

Dim edges really annoy me, but that's just a personal thing. You may not be as bothered, and maybe for you, the price is right so it may be less of a bother.

Cheers,
 
Yes, 8 inches total.

The thing is dim corners would bother me. I may have to rearrange (in my head, at least) the layout a little to how I originally envisioned it. Or perhaps I may need to increase my budget.

The tank does come with a hood, but I believe its optional.

I wouldn't want for my kids to be getting their hands into the tank or putting random objects into it. This'll end up being a living room centrepiece more than anything, so I don't really want for dim corners to mar an otherwise aesthetic arrangement.

What are your opinions of LED lighting? I don't think thegreenmachine sell them as they don't believe the tech has developed enough, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter, and also from those who like to remind us all that "light is light".
 
Hi mate,
As I mentioned I now use LED because of the ease of intensity control. To me that's the most important innovation to come along for us in a long while. Now we have the ability to avoid becoming slaves to intensity. We can vary both the colors and intensity to suit our mood and to avoid plant health issues. The trick for you, if you want to keep the hood, is to find LED units that can be mounted in the hood.

I think TGM have been given a raw deal. I'm just musing here, but some of the factors that people don't consider is that there are a lot of other issues associated with a new product type than just whether it works. TGM have to consider things like Quality Control, Product Support from suppliers, and as well, they have to be able to be confident about performance and they need to learn the product so that they can answer questions and offer quality advice. If they sell you something that turns out to be rubbish, then their reputation suffers, so they want to be absolutely sure that what they sell will be of high quality. Companies like ADA want their distributors to be high end, and to maintain high standards generally, so TGM have to be cautious about what they sell. If you check their website, you'll find that they do stock LEDs now however, again, their selection will be limited for the time being - probably until the ADA LED version is available.

The real problem with LEDs right now though, is that they are atrociously overpriced. You would need quite a few of those TMC tiles to fill the space. I love colors, so I would not get those particular ones because they have only white and blue. I love to simulate phases of the day by having emphasis on red's and yellows, followed by blue/white/green, then purples at the tail end of the lighting period. I like to use the colors as a paintbrush, but these color diodes are only available on the top end devices, which will easily blow the budget, especially since you'd need to buy multiple copies.

It might be easier for now to go with your original plan, but to just use bulbs of varying lengths so that you get a good spread. Why can't you mount shorter bulbs near the edges and just have the longer bulbs mounted in the center? Sorry if this is a silly question but I haven't seen the hardware you are thinking about. What I did a long time ago was to combine a series of Power Compact bulbs under the hood and to route the cables to external ballasts. This was a messy installation, and I'm not suggesting that you do that, but it seems you ought to be able to mount a combination of bulb types under the hood. Each set of bulbs, or set groups can have their individual timers, so that you have some control of intensity. If you use some PCs you might be able to mount them in a crosswise orientation near the edges so that the cover the entire edge. Then have the other normal bulbs in the center.

Cheers,
 
That's given me some food for thought!

I've seen some pictures of your tank(s) across various threads and if you're giving me a thumbs up for LED lighting I may very well double my budget. It'll extend the setup time to about 6 months (in order to buy the tank itself, filters, media, heaters, lighting, substrate, CO2 and plants, and some of these things are a headache themselves, no doubt I might start asking questions about them over the coming months).

I may go with an 8 way controller and four GroBeams which work out to roughly 900 quid. If i can find that buy one get one half price deal I'll make a decent saving from that amount.

What brand lights do you use?

Cheers for your input ceg. 🙂
 
£900!! why dont you just fit two or even three 80w T 5 tubes in the lid?
Personally I would give overhead lighting a lot more thought as you can buy really nice T5 units for very reasonable cost.
Having multiple tubes that can be independently staggered with timers would be good but, dimmable LEDs are obviously very desirable however to pay that sort of money is crazy to me!
You say you dont want to get involved with DIY but I think you could get a carpenter to make a lid & an electrician to fit 20 or so GU10 LEDs for less than £900!
I think 80w T5 bulbs are about 1.5mt long so three of them on independent timers would give you about 1.5wpg, that would be a nice set up?
 
Its something I'll definitely consider.

Is there a way to get TMC controllers to work with LEDs that aren't TMC branded? If I was to make my own lighting unit I'd like the option to have automated dimmable lighting.

Im considering all options at present.
 
What about 4 of these or something similar


Hagen GLO T5 Twin Starter Unit - Ballast | Starter Units | 123 Aquatics


Be less than £400 with tubes give lots of options for lighting effects, with all the different tubes available. you would need 4 timers though

I like the idea of tile and controller but there megabucks and way out of my reach
Maybe one day price will come down enough to get some. till then i'll have to dream
 
Woah! Thanks for the link, at those prices I'm definitely tempted.

One of the things I'm not a fan of with fluorescent lighting is how its diffused, another is how it doesn't dim. Plus I'll have some disposable cash for LED lighting in a few months.

If I was going to go for a cost effective short term project, I'd be an idiot not to go for T5 lighting. As this is a long term project, from procurement of materials, setup of equipment and plants, cycling and then getting the inhabitants for the aquarium (that'll take 2-3 months itself), I dont mind paying extra.
 
+1 to what foxfish said, £900 quid on lights now would be crazy when starting out in the hobby. A year from now you will likely want very different equipment so keep the cost down for now.
You can also buy T5 dimmable ballasts as well but the cost is higher. 4 x 80w T5's will be loads then you can spend the big bucks getting flow and distribution right which will really make or break a high tech tank.
High tech does not have to translate as high light, however once you know you can grow plants high tech means you have the option of high light.
You will also want to consider the fact that maintenance on a tank this size will be quite labour intensive, so slower growth via less light wont be a bad thing! Walk then run😉
 
Yet despite this, as previously mentioned, I still don't like the diffused effect of fluorescent tubes.

I like your comment about walking before running. Perhaps I should minimise the planted side to just a corner of the tank and hard scape the rest. That'll give me time to consider my options I guess.
 
T5 will always give you a better looking light once you find the tubes that work together for the plants and fish you have, as clive mentioned none of the so called 'plant specific' led's have colour options just reef ones then its massive £££.
Really the advantage of LED is long term cost saving, if energy wasnt a consideration or initial hardware cost then i would go with the sunpower dimmable... sadly they dont make do 4 x 80w and 8 x 80w would be ridiculous unless run at 50% or less.
Fast Light Limited ATI Sunpower T5 Dimmable
 
4 x 80W is listed in that link Iain. They look really smart too
Youve had the advice Korge and the choice is yours
Leds are big bucks and it would be unwise to shell out unless youve got the determination to make it work no mater what problems you may/may not encounter
Plant the whole tank. you can always turn lights down if plants/algae grow too quick for you to manage
Good look
 
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