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New 5f Tank. Flow setup. Planted

sciencefiction

sciencefiction

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Joined
26 Feb 2013
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3,412
Hi all,
This is my first post here and I am sure this question has been answered but being a bit slow sometimes I am still not sure I get it right.
I'll just add a little bit of background information in case it matters. I am new to plants although I do have 4 tanks with easy going plants that I somehow manage to keep alive but it's like walking in the dark at the moment.

I am setting up a 5f tank(2nd hand) that holds about 375 litres of water if filled to the top. It's going to be planted as well. So far I have used only inert substrates and now I've decided to try the mineralized topsoil approach capped with something, depending on what I find locally.

I have a question about setting up the flow to suit the plants best. I read here that spraybars along the back maybe the best approach. So far I have two filters, an old Eheim 2026(1000L/H) and a new APS(2000L/H). On the picture below you can see how I've setup the filters so far, two spraybars along the back and an intake on each side of the tank. The problem is that although the flow does seem to be working like it should, coming from the spraybars, hitting the front glass, travel down to front bottom, then from the front to the back bottom, so far so good, but I see it gathers all the debris just there at the back bottom. So I am wondering, do I need an extra push by something else, like powerheads on the two sides next to the spraybars to keep the settling particles suspended in water longer or should I not worry?

I also have a TMS V2 fluidised sand bed filter with an Eheim 1250 pump that I can hook to the tank somehow as well.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions and advise.

Here are a couple of pictures

You can see the two black spraybars along the back:
dscf3766q.jpg



Picture of the debris gathering on the left back side:
dscf3799g.jpg


Picture of the debris on the right, same story different side of the tank:
dscf3800o.jpg
 
Hello,
You're about 1000LPH short of the "ideal" 10X rating but this might still be OK depending on the amount of lighting, hardscape and so forth. Have you tried to hook the inlet of the 1250 up to the output of the 2026 to boost the flow? Crazy, I know, but worth a try, just to see if it's disaster or success. Or, how about just using the sand filter in lieu of the 2026 and port it's output to that left side spraybar (or whatever diameter spraybar that fits).

Cheers,
 
Me think's whatever gather's here or there,will ultimately be plant food. And at least you know where to find what need's removed.
If not injecting CO2,, then flow may be adequate as is.
Filter's with fine material will catch minute particulate's and thus cleaner looking tank assuming the filter mmedia is cleaned regularly.
 
Thanks guys. So you think the Eheim being just 1000L/H isn't giving it enough push to turn around the suspended particles? I am a bit afraid the flow isn't equal because of the different filters but then again why is the APS2000 not clearing its side of the tank then I wonder? I can easily get another APS for example and hook it up on the Eheim side instead. The Eheim 1250 powerhead will cripple the flow if hooked to any of the filters because it has a 13mm output compared to the 16mm Eheim 2026 or the 18mm APS 2000. The problem as well with the sand bed filter and the powerhead is that the outlet needs to be above the surface to prevent back siphoning so I can't install a spraybar onto it but I can put some wide flow outlet and position it in the left corner facing the front left corner so it works along side the Eheim pushing water in the same direction?
I certianly won't be injecting CO2. The most I'd do is some liquid carbon only at the start or depending how it goes.
Do you think a powerhead or two anywhere can do the job instead as it's just easier because I need to buy inlet and outlet for the sand bed filter otherwise?
Then on anothermhand, if I make sure I plant some root feeders in that line to utilize the waste?
 
Ok, so I took out a Koralia Evo 2800L/H from my other tank to test in this one. Here is where I tried putting it to see if it makes a difference. Sorry about the tannins, the wood is being soaked in the process too.

Left side under the Eheim spraybar
dscf3845d.jpg


In the middle between the two spraybars
dscf3843t.jpg


I can't make a proper picture of the debris because of the dark water, but it totally made no difference, it still gatheres along the back line and that powerhead is quite strong. I can't put plants in front of it, it causes mechanical damage so I am not sure what to make out of that but it seems the flow just hits the back wall and doesn't go up towards the spraybars no matter what.

dscf3846m.jpg
 
roadmaster said:
Filter's with fine material will catch minute particulate's and thus cleaner looking tank assuming the filter mmedia is cleaned regularly.
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention. Actually both filters have coarse and fine sponges along with a bit bio media inside because that's the way I setup my other filters and they perform better fine particle wise than filter floss/bio media combo. So fine particles should be definately caught up. This is heavier dust from the wood that refuses to move from there. It hasn't even attempted yet to go through the filters. I am wondering if my koralia powerhead is underperforming after over a year use or what :( I can put it to blow from side to side at the bottom but wouldn't that affect the spraybar flow pattern?
 
Hi,
sciencefiction said:
I certianly won't be injecting CO2. The most I'd do is some liquid carbon only at the start or depending how it goes.
Click to expand...
liquid carbon = CO2.

If your intent is to have a non-CO2 enriched tank then all of this is unnecessary. Flow rates and distribution is only a manic issue for CO2 enriched tanks.

Cheers,
 
Thanks Ceg. The problem is that I am not worried that I can't boost the flow rate. I can do that via any, the sand bed filter or powerheads. But what I am trying to figure is how to make the debris gathering along the back to go into the intakes mostly instead, with this type of spraybar setup.

I have a 330 Litre tank which I am supplementing with liquid CO2 and all type of ferts. The powerhead came from it. On that tank I've got white sand, an 8 inch common pleco, 11 very large and constantly pooping platies, 5 clown loaches 3-4 inch, 13 corys, 10 rainbows and a 3-4 guppies. I've got 3 filters on it, a 2000L/H, a 900L/H and a 1000L/H along with the koralia 2800l/H powerhead I am experimenting with and there's no poop gathering there anywhere even if I left the tank without weekly water change but I had hard time setting it up to make it work because there's large driftwood as a centre piece, and of course the plants and the flow got obstructed by it with the outlets being along the lenght, not on the back so I had to improvise with the other filters to make the flow go all around and into the intakes. The reason I want the bottom totally clean is that bottom feeders and rotting food and poop on the bottom is not very good for their health and I mostly like bottom feeders, so I prefer to keep it as clean as possible and clean the filters instead. The spraybar setup seems a lot better because it will distribute the flow a lot more equaly, this is if I manage to get the back part moving somewhere.
 
I guess the lack of replies means I've hit a brickwall with the spraybar setup then. Anyone any ideas? Or any other type of setup that may work better? In short the available devices are these:

1)5f tank
2) A 2000 L/H and a 1000L/H external filters. A 1250L/H sand bed filter that can be connected to Eheim 1250L/H external pump.
3) I have a 2800 L/H koralia powerhead but can get a smaller one or two if needs be.
 
Hi,
Probably it's due to a divergence in priorities. For my own part, I'm only interested in flow/distribution as it relates to nutrient delivery. That priority focuses on the pressure side of the flow equation. I do frequent massive water changes for the tank health as a whole, which provides the opportunity to remove debris. Although the filter intakes do swallow loads of dirt, a lot of debris gets trapped by the leaves, so it's really necessary to get one's hands in there and shake the plants out, to dig into the plant beds and gravel with a siphon to clean the tank. I never really worry about trying to manipulate the flow to maximize filter ingress. That is a completely different story, and there is definitely no way to predict the flow, especially once gravel, plants and fish are in the tank. The suction side of the equation is a much more difficult task to manage because the omnidirectional flow into the inlet grate reduces the inlet velocity from any one direction. Sorry....

Cheers,
 
You are probably right. I think I might as well leave it until there's more stuff in it and then make a decision if I need to change or add something. It may turn out ok with the soil and suitable plants in that area. I am quite happy with the front part being "washed off" and as roadmaster says at least I know where to find it.
 
I finally connected the sand bed filter. I have it hanging at the back in the right hand corner because I don't have a proper outlet yet and it's splashing from above unfortuntaly. I ordered the Eheim installation set 2 with spray bar and also a ball joint and wide jet nozzle so now I am wondering where to put the outlet considering the other two filters. There isn't much room for another spraybar. I can move the outlet anywhere really once I receive the new parts.
I tried posting pictures but my explorer freezes each time I click on the button for some reason.
 
Hi,
Looks like your Koralia went A.W.O.L

Do more water changes to get the tannins out faster.

Cheers,
 
I am not too bothered about the tannins now because I won't have fish for a good few weeks and the lights haven't arrived yet either.
The Koralia is washed and dried and in the cabinet :)
I find it too strong for the width of the tank if positioned at the back pointing forward and it didn't do anything that I could see. It used to blow my plants away damaging leaves in another tank so it will do the same in this one I presume.
 
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