Need advice with hard water

[Sanniejop]

Hi all,
Ok, I understand that the hardness of water is important. Ideally it should be 6 or lower(?)

My tap water has an KH of 11. ICP analysis of water supplier tells me it contains Ca 56 ppm, Mg 6 ppm and K 2.6 ppm.

When i want to keep using this tap water as is....
To which ppm values should i dose Mg and K with these Ca and hardness numbers?
I understand that the ratio between those three is important. But is it wise to increase the Mg and K values to meet the ratios with the high Ca or should i keep them lower?

Or is it really worth to invest in RO unit? And all the hassle coming with it.

Thanks in advance,
Greetings Sandor

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Welcome to UKAPS, we have a few members from the Netherlands.

Or is it really worth to invest in RO unit? And all the hassle coming with it.

Is <"rain-water a possibility for you">? It has many of the advantages of RO water, but without the environmental footprint etc.

Ok, I understand that the hardness of water is important. Ideally it should be 6 or lower(?)

My tap water has an KH of 11. ICP analysis of water supplier tells me it contains Ca 56 ppm, Mg 6 ppm and K 2.6 ppm.

That is absolutely fine as a water supply, many <"successful planted tank keepers"> will have water that is much harder than that.

I understand that the ratio between those three is important. But is it wise to increase the Mg and K values to meet the ratios with the high Ca or should i keep them lower?

Personally I'm not to bothered about ratios, @Happi may be able to give you a more nuanced reply. You will be adding potassium (K) and magnesium (Mg) as part of <"your fertiliser addition">, but you don't need to add any more calcium (Ca).

cheers Darrel

 

[Happi]

@Sanniejop
do you have a full Report from the ICP analysis of your water? also the report from where your tap water comes from?

 

[Ria95]

Hello,
in summary I think you will be able to grow a wide variety of plants without issues in your current tap water. No need to dose extra calcium or magnesium. I would still strongly recommend testing GH (water hardness) from your tap to see if you are in the same ballpark as the water company analysis.

K will usually come from your macronutrient fertilizer. If you are dosing EI it will come in more than sufficient quantities from there. Plants are adaptable, no need to be fretful about deviations from proclaimed optimal ratios.

A lot easier to keep things simple and have fun growing plants .

 

[Happi]

the term ratio would be good for those who are into experimental, but it is not mandatory for regular hobbyist.
"Ca 56 ppm, Mg 6 ppm and K 2.6 ppm" seems like there is plenty of Ca and Mg, if anything you can bump the Mg to 8 ppm or so, the K will be added through Macro or you can choose to add it at water changes, probably best to use it with your Macros. my only concern is high KH of 11

 

[arcturus]

Hi all,
Ok, I understand that the hardness of water is important. Ideally it should be 6 or lower(?)

The general hardness of the water GH measures total Ca and Mg. Recommended values are dGH > 6, especially if keeping invertebrates. Plants thrive over a wide range of GH.

The carbonate hardness KH measures dissolved carbonates. Plants are more sensitive about KH values than GH values. You can grow most plants with a low KH (say less than 5-6° dKH). Above this value sensitive plants can start to have issues. dKH can be kept near zero. However, water with lower dKH values will have less pH buffering capacity.

My tap water has an KH of 11. ICP analysis of water supplier tells me it contains Ca 56 ppm, Mg 6 ppm and K 2.6 ppm.

Are you talking about KH = 11° or GH = 11°? A GH of 11 is ok. A KH of 11 not so much, but it all depend on what type of aquarium you want to keep. Can you please check and report the KH and GH levels of your tap water? The Ca and Mg are fine (and can be easily increased if needed). The K will also be adjusted to the target range by your macro fertilizers.

 

[Sanniejop]

@Happi
Just bumped into an old thread started by myself. I see I did not reacted anymore on a request of Happi.
So here I added my local water report.
I really like to hear your advice on which fertilization strategy to follow.

Currently I use partly rain water with water changes. Ratio Rainwater/tapwater 5/2. Aiming for KH of 3.
Also I add a little Mg and I am not sure to which ppm I should add K at water change (for the volume I am changing).

Thanks in advance
Sandor

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

So here I added my local water report.

Like <"we said earlier"> your water is absolutely fine. Most people in the S. of the UK would "bite your hand off" for water of that quality.

Currently I use partly rain water with water changes. Ratio Rainwater/tapwater 5/2. Aiming for KH of 3.

Yes, that should be fine, I might <"lower the tap addition"> if you have enough rain water?

Do you have a conductivity meter? Because rainwater tends to be <"a bit variable through the year">, it just gives you <"a datum range">.

.... All I did initially was measured the conductivity while plants and livestock looked happy. I did this <"every month or so over a year"> and found that 80 - 150 microS was my <"goldilocks zone">.....

Also I add a little Mg and I am not sure to which ppm I should add K at water change

Have a look at <"Ca:Mg:K Ratio">. If money is no object? You might actually have found a use for <"Seachem Equilibrium">.

Personally I'd just use the high K potassium (kalium) "Solufeed 2:1:4 fertiliser" <"2:1:4"> (or Dutch equivalent) as a suitable "off the the shelf" solution.

cheers Darrel

 

[Sanniejop]

I might <"lower the tap addition"> if you have enough rain water?

Even less tap water. I am not only enjoying plants but also have fish in the tank. Is it save to go much lower in KH?

Do you have a conductivity meter?

Yes, i have rain water has a tds of 4ppm. Pen is calibrated. I understand in this range accuracy is low.
Tank itselfs is currently 370ppm. It raises each day with around 4ppm. I guess from dosing ferts?

it just gives you <"a datum range">.

Sorry i'm dutch. I dont understand what you mean with that?

You might actually have found a use for <"Seachem Equilibrium">.

Equilibrium is very high in K. So i can use that as a reference.
Currently i have all kind of fert powders available. Try to use them up first.

I saw you mentioning solufeed earlier in some threads. I tried to find out if it is available over here. I also found other tomato 2:1:4 stuff. But is this not to high on P?

Thanks for your reply

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Even less tap water. I am not only enjoying plants but also have fish in the tank. Is it save to go much lower in KH?

@Roland keeps his tanks <"at 1 dKH">.

Yes, i have rain water has a tds of 4ppm. Pen is calibrated. I understand in this range accuracy is low.
Tank itselfs is currently 370ppm. It raises each day with around 4ppm. I guess from dosing ferts?

Yes, any salts will raise conductivity. Personally I'd be bit worried about that "TDS" reading, it is lot higher than I'd expect.

Sorry i'm dutch. I dont understand what you mean with that?

Just a range of TDS values that give you acceptable plant growth.

Equilibrium is very high in K. So i can use that as a reference.

You can <"use it as a source of potassium (K), calcium (Ca) and magnesium (Mg)">.

Currently i have all kind of fert powders available. Try to use them up first.

You can use them up, I would.

I saw you mentioning solufeed earlier in some threads. I tried to find out if it is available over here. I also found other tomato 2:1:4 stuff. But is this not to high on P?

Not really, I don't worry too much about dosing a set amount of fertiliser, I just use the <"Duckweed Index">.

Thanks for your reply

That is what the forum is for.

Cheers Darrel

 

[Sanniejop]

Yes, any salts will raise conductivity. Personally I'd be bit worried about that "TDS" reading, it is lot higher than I'd expect.

O my God! I was also a bit puzzled by the TDS numbers.
So today I bought a K test , yes I know water tests are not all, but I find out that the K concentration in my tank was way to high. ±300ppm.
That may explain the high TDS value and it rapid increase over days.
I also checked my dosing solution. This was also way to high. Could not measure it. I aimed for 50 ppm solution.
But I find my error. The Rotala Butterfly calculator outputs ppm values in american notation meaning a comma for indicating thousands and a point for decimals.
I overlooked the point and thought the comma was the indicator for decimals. So I made a solution of 50000 ppm 😱
So I was dosing 1000 times to high K fert concentrations.

I hope not too many people make this mistake....

 

[Laoshan]

Good that you found out @Sanniejop!

Differences in notation and units can be a cause of mistakes with grave consequences. Ask NASA. I checked your water report (another Dutch here). Hardness is relatively high otherwise no big issues it seems to me.

 

[Sanniejop]

Ask NASA

🤣😂🤣 Over there the consequences are a bit bigger i guess. So far no problems over here with fish. But I am gonna do some big water changes to reset this.
I also found recently a RO water tap point in my neighborhood. To cut the Kh down. €2,50 for 100 Liters. Think I need to buy some jerrycans 😁

@Laoshan from which region are you coming?

 

[nijat11]

Good that you found out @Sanniejop!

Differences in notation and units can be a cause of mistakes with grave consequences. Ask NASA. I checked your water report (another Dutch here). Hardness is relatively high otherwise no big issues it seems to me.

🤣😂🤣 Over there the consequences are a bit bigger i guess. So far no problems over here with fish. But I am gonna do some big water changes to reset this.
I also found recently a RO water tap point in my neighborhood. To cut the Kh down. €2,50 for 100 Liters. Think I need to buy some jerrycans 😁

@Laoshan from which region are you coming?

Hello from The Hague dear Hollanders! I think we all have hard water! Here in The Hague we have KH14, I just bought RO device and yes my water bill go UP UP UP. I also was thinking about rain water, but heating that water and getting it to the 3rd floor is a pain 🙁

 

[Sanniejop]

3rd floor is a pain

Ooofff. Going up three stairs... good fitness 💪 . I can let the water come to temperature in my garage. And luckily no stairs.

 

[nijat11]

Ooofff. Going up three stairs... good fitness 💪 . I can let the water come to temperature in my garage. And luckily no stairs.

Not for 1300 liters 😀

 

[Bradders]

Not for 1300 liters 😀

Thats the same weight as some cars! 😀

 

[Sanniejop]

Not for 1300 liters 😀

OMG. thats to much.

 

[Laoshan]

Hello from The Hague dear Hollanders! I think we all have hard water! Here in The Hague we have KH14, I just bought RO device and yes my water bill go UP UP UP. I also was thinking about rain water, but heating that water and getting it to the 3rd floor is a pain 🙁

Here it’s GH 6 and KH 4, we have softer water close to the Veluwe. Though it comes with some free nitrate (about 15 mg/l).

We do reduce water hardness at some of the water purification plants at the water company where I work (in the South, Brabant). The rule is, when water hardness exceeds 2 mmol/l, we reduce to below 1,5 mmol/l.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Yes, any salts will raise conductivity. Personally I'd be bit worried about that "TDS" reading, it is lot higher than I'd expect.

..... But I find my error. The Rotala Butterfly calculator outputs ppm values in american notation meaning a comma for indicating thousands and a point for decimals.
I overlooked the point and thought the comma was the indicator for decimals. So I made a solution of 50000 ppm

Well done for finding out, I'd guess that many of us have done something similar. I often get lost in the <"powers of ten"> and make up a solution with the <"wrong order of magnitude"> of dilution etc.

@Andy Pierce I think this is one of the <"broad brush"> answers to your question in <"Invert suggestions">.

I still haven't found a convincing use for measuring TDS. 😉

cheers Darrel