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My first ever aquarium. Juwel Rio 180l

What a week.
Ran out of CO2. Of the compressed type.

However my work and travel did not afford me to get to the LFS to get a replacement canister. So I flicked the switch off on the lights so that when timer came on no lights appeared.

My thinking is that if there was no light the plants would not consume much co2 and I would minimise any melt.

2 Days later I manage to get a new CO2 canister and plug it all back in. Lights on tonight revealed a slightly less green set of plants with a little bit of browning. Also noticed the DC was blue, but the fish seem ok.

CO2 was put on 2 hrs before lights on.
DC back up to green.


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You did the best possible thing roly :thumbup:
It would have been much worse if you'd left the lights on. I'm sure now co2 is back, with a few extra water changes things will be green again in no time.
 
I'd maybe do 2x weekly changes for a couple of weeks to ensure any ill effects from the lack of co2 are counteracted.
Little but of browning suggests some level of failure, and as a result there will be an increase of organic waste which will need removing.
Cheerio,
Ady
 
Ah Merry Christmas.

The past few weeks have been an interesting one from my perspective in observing the tank.

Since the incident with CO2 running out the tank appears to be almost back to shape. I think my grass was worst hit as I can see lots of blades have gone brown, but still see the majority of the carpet is green.

Lights are still at 6hrs.

Interestingly what I have started to notice in the last week is hair algae. Wow. Stunned. I noticed it on my Valis and my Anubias had the hair algae on some leaves, not all. Looked it up on the algae blog that this forum points to and got the impression that it was due to CO2 issues and also phosphate levels.

So I did my weekly 50% water change after trying rub off some of the hair algae, then noticed that the CO2 bottle was depleted.

LFS was out of CO2 so my only alternative was to buy some Easy Carbo until new CO2 canisters came in.

Day 2 of Easy Carbo and I noticed my drop checker has gone blue. I am adding approx 5ml/day for my 180l medium planted tank. Fish seem fine. Lights are currently out until 4pm.

Thinking about upping the phosphate in my EI dosing. Currently following the standard mix as suggested elsewhere on the forum.

R



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Hi Roly,
algae will most definitely be down to the co2. Once you get your gas reinstalled I'd maybe try to slowly increase it as your plants have most likely increased in mass and may require a fraction more than before. The recent fluctuations and depletion will have encouraged the algae, especially if the lights were still set the come on.
The liquid carbon will have no effect on your drop checker as it is a different carbon source which doesn't alter the ph of the indicator solution....hence why it has returned to its blue colour. The liquid carbon will help as an algaecide as well as a temporary carbon source and it may well be worth your while continuing dosing it alongside your gas co2 for a week or two to help overcome the algae issues and any period of tweaking whilst your reinstating the gas.
id also do an extra water change per week for a couple of weeks just to help keep the tank clean during this period.
cheerio,
Ady.
 
Thanks Ady
Will execute on your advice.

Interestingly the LFS seemed to think the hair algae might be down to an increase in the nitrate level in the water supply due to the recent massive rain fall as they had another customer within the same week.

Noticed that lights have been on for a couple of hours now and I have not seen any pearling as I would with the injected CO2. Is there an optimum time during the day to add the easy carbo?
 
Hi Roly,
not sure about the local fish shop diagnosis of high nitrates causing the algae....but low/fluctuating co2 is definitely a cause so I'd be inclined to concentrate on that.
Regards the easy carbo, liquid carbon doesn't provide the same levels of carbon enrichment as gas, so some use double or even triple the recommended manufacturers dosages. It is unlikely that you will experience the same pearling you observed during gas injection for this reason.
The best time to add the liquid carbon source is as close to lights on as possible as it only lasts for 24hrs in the tank before it is exhausted, but ensure it is dosed sometime pre lights on so it's available to the plants as soon as the photoperiod begins just like gas.
coincidentally Clive (Ceg) has just posted some useful information on liquid carbon in another journal so I copied and pasted below for you to have a read, a few useful snippets!
cheerio,
Ady.

Clive:
Well there's very little theory involved. Adding more CO2 increases plant growth rates and plant health. Since, for our purposes, inside the plant tissue, liquid carbon => CO2, then adding liquid carbon at the same time as adding gaseous CO2 means that there is more available CO2 for the plant. The two compounds do not compete with each other, i.e adding liquid carbon does not prevent the plants from using the gas, and vice-versa.

So, it can easily be (and happens quite often) that due to the sensitivity of the fish or shrimp in that particular tank, as well as due to other factors, such as poor flow/distribution, too much light etc., the hobbyist finds that the gas injection rate is at a maximum permissible level with respect to toxicity, yet the tank still suffers CO2 related algae. Supplementing liquid carbon simply adds more CO2 while avoiding crossing of the gas toxicity threshold.

Of course, there are three main limitations:
1. The liquid only delivers a fraction of the amount of CO2 that the gas delivers.
2. Liquid carbon has toxicity issues of it's own.
3. Liquid Carbon is much more expensive than gas.

So liquid carbon is no panacea, but it is simply a tool that raises the available CO2 levels, while having some algaecidal properties. These products can be used at whatever non-toxic levels desired. I don't have an exhaustive list of plants that react negatively, the most reported being Riccia, Elodea and Vallis. However, toxicity is based on concentration level, not just the presence of gluteraldehyde. So that's why some people will report that their Vallis, dies while others will report that Vallis thrives with the addition of liquid carbon. Just about all carpet plants, mosses, ferns, crypts, swords and most stems do fine.

A starting dose, assuming none of the low tolerance species are in the tank can be a daily dose at the beginning of the photoperiod of the suggestion on the bottle, but, depending on the fish/shrimp in the tank this can be exceeded, or it may need to be dosed at a lower level. It's also important to note that this should be a DAILY dosing, otherwise this can sometimes equate to poor CO2 stability, which can cause other problems.

There are quite a few people dosing liquid carbon only so it would be better to search for those threads or search using the name of the plant/fish with "carbon", Excel" and so forth to see what others experience.

Cheers,​
LondonDragon and kap k like this.​
 
I am two weeks into using Easy Carbo and no injected CO2.
For the 180l tank I am dosing approx 8-9ml of the stuff. But am still waiting for the LFS to get some new 1.5kg tanks in.
The fish appear to be ok with it. The plants I have noticed have slowed down. I would say they are melting, but I believe I have noticed they are growing much slower.

The DC still appears to be on the blue side of the spectrum and is positively blue first thing in the morning. After a couple of hours of lights on the DC is less blue, but is still not green. But again all the fish appear to be healthy and happy.

I have been experimenting with dosing at different times of the day as I am not sure if the CO2 leaves the water column in the same way as when you inject.

Looks like in the long run I am going to have to save up for a proper regulator and solanoid and FE setup, as it is taking a while for the suppliers to get the LFS their refilled canisters.

Still observing and still learning lots.
R
 
Your Dc wont change colour when using liquid co2 as it is the gas co2 that reacts with the reagent in the DC. I believe Tom Barr was talking about doing some study into liquid carbon and its lifespan but as ady said the current belief is that is has quite a short lifespan, 24hrs or less. As lond as you dose each morning i wouldnt worry about it being too close to lights on just be sure its regular.
:thumbup:
 
Wow. That was a while away from the forum.
This is partly due to the fact that since my supplier of CO2 had a refilling issue you I had to switch to liquid carbon, which I felt (naively probably, was not as much benefit to the plants as the injected method) and thus felt I was just keeping the tank going and not much to write home about.

Interesting to note that during the 2 months of using liquid carbon, I did on average 10ml per day which was 2ml over for my size of tank. This was due to the measuring receticle not being granular enough for me. But what was more interesting was that none of fish seemed to mind.

What else happened during the 2 months. The plants appeared not grow as aggressively as the injected method. For me the liquid carbon method was easier to administer as my injected method has no solenoid and is extremely difficult to get the right BPM due to turning the valve by a hairs width causes a considerable change.

Anyway this week saw me get a refilled CO2 canister, with plans to switch at some point to a FE and appropriate regulator (with solenoid) to make my life less stressful. With the injection of CO2 saw more pearling on the plants than the liquid carbon.

Have also been more ruthless with the trimming.

Question:- Was thinking about putting a black background outside of the tank. Only the back of the tank and not the sides. Is there any impact to the fish health, light levels? Will it make the tank look nicer? Is it simple as going to an art and crafts shop and getting some black paper and short of blue tack coloured black what suggested ways are their to affix to the tank.

Over and out.
R
 
Hi mate,
Definitely go for it. Moss needs good flow and CO2 to fill in quickly, but other than that it will be a nice addition.

Cheers,
 
I will start to plan a moss wall. I am guessing going to be quite a few pots of Tropica' Weeping Moss. Thanks for the positive go for it.

With one of my Guppies being a bit of a bully but in the same guise looks like he is fin nipped, I decided to get some females on the scene.

I bought 6 female guppies and 3 Ottos. The latter I have been looking at catfish for a while. Wasn't sure what to get Dory's, Plec's, Ottos or some other more exotic cat fish.

In the end the LFS advised Ottos for the algae and size. Only have 180l tank and thought the Plec's would grow bigger than the rest of the crew.

A couple of weeks of injected CO2 appears to have brought the plants back to life, and growing faster than the liquid carbon.

Over and out.
R


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well there goes my early night, started reading this from start to finish totally engrosed! Fantastic stuff and i've learnt more tonight than over the past week reading random posts.

I too must start a journal
 
Thanks Pinkmummy79. I am glad my humble journal has helped you as it did me. The advice from admins and knowledgeable people is very kind and helpful. What I am most appreciative is that people are still willing to step in and make the comments no matter how many times the question has been posed (usually CO2/Light/EI questions I have noticed).

I viewed the journal initially as my own personal diary, just writing down what was happening in the tank. My tank is by no means a visual master piece but I still have living plants and fish which are fascinating to work out how to keep in check. So when people started commenting and helping on the science bit I was blown away by the generosity.

To me getting the science bit sorted and understanding what was going on was more important that having the amazing looking tank. Reasoning was that if I have the amazing designed tank but did not understand the science things could spiral out of control and ruin that look. Sure there are plenty that can do both.

Anyway short answer. Start a journal and lay it out there for everyone to see. Photos do appear to help people visualise the setup, especially if there are issues with the tank. The photo can quickly help people diagnose.
R
 
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