My 60p soft water

[JoshP12]

Gorgeous pics.

Thank you .

No gda is like a dust, I have also stringy algae like spirogyra?

K And po4 increased yes… but only in same ratio. So
2ppm N 0.9 po4, 1.3 k
Are you suggesting I raise these values?
To maybe
8.8 No3
1.5 po4
2 K

Yeah good point.

You need potassium.

That stringy thing is only prominent when tank is just a bit “off” and K seems to do that.

Personally, I like NO3O4 at 2:1 but it really doesn’t matter too much.

Assuming you are just using N/NO3 interchangeably, I’d leave it at 2/.9 for NO3/PO4. If you are using N as proxy for NO3, then I tend to just convert to NO3 and aim 2:1 … NO3O4. But that won’t fix on its own.

The K is very little here at 2. And I think 4 fro
Remineralize and also 20 Ca and 8 Mg. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to put it higher … maybe get it to 10 or at least 8 then the next week 10 and so on until stringy clears.

What does Joe Harvey do for N/P/K and GH? I know he uses sand like you. If you had soil, I’d say it doesn’t really matter, just plunk it at 14 ppm for K and you won’t really need to worry. But I have caused major deformities by changing K drastically so I am hesitant to say go and do it because they may crunch especially without the soil.

 

[plantnoobdude]

Assuming you are just using N/NO3

Nah, I use N and No3 with conversions.
P and po4 I also use conversions.
My current dosing is
8.8 No3
0.88 Po4
I might increase po4 to two? Little changes at a time haha.

The K is very little here at 2. And I think 4 fro
Remineralize and also 20 Ca and 8 Mg. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to put it higher … maybe get it to 10 or at least 8 then the next week 10 and so on until stringy clears

maybe, but that means d I’ll need to do a massive wc. Or just collumn dose idk.

What does Joe Harvey do for N/P/K and GH? I know he uses sand like you. If you had soil, I’d say it doesn’t really matter, just plunk it at 14 ppm for K and you won’t really need to worry. But I have caused major deformities by changing K drastically so I am hesitant to say go and do it because they may crunch especially without the soil.

No idea what he does. But yea I have observed leaf crunching at higher K levels especially for pedicellata.

 

[plantnoobdude]

This is what my Mac looked like

 

[Happi]

IME mac has skinnier leaves under richer water column

They almost always obtain bigger leaves under urea dosing. The leaves almost becomes very thin under heavy NO3 dosing.

 

[JoshP12]

Nah, I use N and No3 with conversions.
P and po4 I also use conversions.
My current dosing is
8.8 No3
0.88 Po4
I might increase po4 to two? Little changes at a time haha.

I would!

maybe, but that means d I’ll need to do a massive wc. Or just collumn dose idk.

No idea what he does. But yea I have observed leaf crunching at higher K levels especially for pedicellata.

Start with the P then see if the stringy one subsides, if not, might need to bump K.

 

[JoshP12]

This is what my Mac looked like

I think this really opens up a much larger conversation.

Sprectrum and light will change the way we see and the plant responds - macrandra is such a sensitive plant, that you can actually see the impact.

Just as an aside, here is a picture from green aqua tank:

You can see that the severe N restriction has caused the beautiful color - enhanced by probably ADA lights - and then further down you go, you can see the change of the leaf (mobile nutrients).

Some random photo (people rarely give top-down photos of macrandra on purpose):

Also, the taller it gets the more likely it is to have flow/light blocked. If its a group of macrandra, it's always the top 1/3 that people share. Or it's a single stem with perfect maintenance around it.

I think it's more of a humbling experience between us and nature - though the imperfection is evident to us, I'd be certain that behind all the photos that we see there is macrandra with greenish splotches on lower, older growth and/or growth that is blocked by crowding etc. Also, Greenaqua deserves credit for timing that photo/video with the nutrient restriction perfectly. And, spectrum will change what we actually see on the plant etc. This is the minutia though ... any spectrum will grow plants, but when we are talking about splotchy macrandra on old growth, spectrum is a worthy competitor.

I'll see if I can get a good shot of the lower parts of mine that are blocked by all the h'ra etc. There is a stark difference between the left and right side by lights and the other stuff.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[plantnoobdude]

Nooooo my pedicellata.

Started stunting.

Mac leaves getting bigger

Pantanal putting out side shoots for some reason. Prolly co2. Did some maintenance.

 

[_Maq_]

Did UV lamp help clearing the water? Or was it WC?

 

[plantnoobdude]

Did UV lamp help clearing the water? Or was it WC?

Definitely UV.

 

[plantnoobdude]

Daily updates too repetitive? Who cares😂

Everything going mad. Plants and algae included.

 

[JoshP12]

Here’s a shot of mini butterfly — can see on farthest down leaves, you have minor greening.

Also, buddy just changed his lighting to that chihiros one and in his Macrandra, you can’t see some of the green spots anymore.

 

[plantnoobdude]

Here’s a shot of mini butterfly — can see on farthest down leaves, you have minor greening.

View attachment 198850

Also, buddy just changed his lighting to that chihiros one and in his Macrandra, you can’t see some of the green spots anymore.

Very interesting, wish I could pinpoint it to something and cause it reliably.

 

[JoshP12]

Very interesting, wish I could pinpoint it to something and cause it reliably.

We’d have to find someone who has top to bottom - at least a foot worth - of Macrandra perfect.

In a single stem, completely clear scenario, is more likely (in my opinion), any bouquet and I’d be impressed.

I reckon you need meticulously clean sand substrate, each micro weighed, and careful, consistent macros.

In other words, the tank is always in this zone of perfect for Macrandra needs.

Probably need lots of light too (for Macrandra) - and from lots of angles.

I think it’s related to the big macros - N/CO2 and light intensity.

 

[plantnoobdude]

We’d have to find someone who has top to bottom - at least a foot worth - of Macrandra perfect.

In a single stem, completely clear scenario, is more likely (in my opinion), any bouquet and I’d be impressed.

I reckon you need meticulously clean sand substrate, each micro weighed, and careful, consistent macros.

In other words, the tank is always in this zone of perfect for Macrandra needs.

Probably need lots of light too (for Macrandra) - and from lots of angles.

I think it’s related to the big macros - N/CO2 and light

Yeah would love to see that.
Probably should get round to adding that additional PO4. I’m not sure if adding Po4 will solve my algae issues though, because I had no algae before I started double dosing macros. Will still try it tho.

Stringy algae, filamentous short algae, and gda+gsa.

As a whole plant growth is looking good. Except pedicellata.

Seems I’m more afraid of algae than the plants lol.

Was hoping for pedicellata more like this….

 

[JoshP12]

Can’t fear the algae! Teaches us.

You just poured N and you have no substrate nutrients - you need P and K the rest. Micros not as “much” in your soft water.

You can even peel back the N and pull up the P if you wanted to not enter EI territory so fast.

The GSA points to PO4/CO2 and potentially K.

The stringy one points to either short-lived algae on growth that has rapidly decayed OR K.

These “points” can be ammended in other ways like pulling off the other ferts and choking but adding more and adding more - we land on EI.

Classic, lower the lights to “find the sweet spot” or go hard mode- leave the lights for form etc - and nail your flow with EI column. Without substrate it’s tough unless you harden the GH of the water, and even then if N gets too high, the rest has to go up.

But right now you are around ~7ppm NO3 … just pull up PO4 and watch.

The algae will get worse. Don’t matter. Have to do maintenance etc.

You also have UV going - making more ammonia because all the bacteria is dying. So you have double whammy. UV needs water change to remove the waste or you end up in the cycle of boom bust boom bust and if your co2 isn’t bang on, the plants begin to suffer from fluctuation - algae soup.

 

[plantnoobdude]

Wallichii showing Fe deficiency, might decrease Ca Mg K
To 10:4:4
My pH drop is from 0.9-1.0 I don’t think it’s co2…
Made up that higher PO4 mix @JoshP12
2N (NH4NO3)
2 PO4
1.5 K
Lowering gh shouldn’t be too bad an idea no?

 

[plantnoobdude]

Also, thinking about turning off the UV? Horrrible idea? Keep it on 24/7?

 

[JoshP12]

Lots going on here @plantnoobdude —- if you want to reduce GH for the sake of having to add less salts/softer water/ease (for example I keep Ca at 9 so I don’t have to add any since my water is Ca 9), I would … if only to make iron more accessible, I wouldn’t.

The moment you change GH and K, the N and P will probably influence differently - within reason (and potentially unnoticeable) … I’d let wallichi grow “iron deficient” and see if it is actually iron deficient (it might be without the substrate) - sometimes it turns pinky/paley under high light. The plant can also moderate minerals to some extent.

Playing with the salts is hard and annoying work in my opinion- harder than fiddling with light and co2. And it’s mysterious.

UV again make a choice and stick with it - since the constant change is hard on the system.

I’d leave it for another couple weeks then turn it off and see if the cloud comes back since it is clear now.

 

[plantnoobdude]

Lots going on here @plantnoobdude —- if you want to reduce GH for the sake of having to add less salts/softer water/ease (for example I keep Ca at 9 so I don’t have to add any since my water is Ca 9), I would … if only to make iron more accessible, I wouldn’t.

The moment you change GH and K, the N and P will probably influence differently - within reason (and potentially unnoticeable) … I’d let wallichi grow “iron deficient” and see if it is actually iron deficient (it might be without the substrate) - sometimes it turns pinky/paley under high light. The plant can also moderate minerals to some extent.

Playing with the salts is hard and annoying work in my opinion- harder than fiddling with light and co2. And it’s mysterious.

UV again make a choice and stick with it - since the constant change is hard on the system.

I’d leave it for another couple weeks then turn it off and see if the cloud comes back since it is clear now.

Alright good advice, I’ll just stick to dosing the raised PO4 mix.

 

[Happi]

Wallichii showing Fe deficiency, might decrease Ca Mg K

I don't think this should affect the Fe. I assume you are referring to Mg and K interaction which could interfere with each others and where Mg Deficiency (look similar to Fe Deficiency/Pale Growth) could occur due to excess K ? But in your case this is less likely to happen because your K is still not that high. let me know if this is why you wanted to make the change listed in the quote?