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Mountain Range
- Thread starter Carpman
- Start date
It's been 1 hellish end to last week!
Saturday's jobs drain the water, set up the ADS with the new ferts micro-macro after water is drained (I can move the tank out of the corner then), change light timings and power, adjust co2 for new timings, refill and finally do a PH profile....
I had to wait for lighting to come on prior to doing Saturdays water change, when it did, I spotted some BBA on the Monte Carlo and Eleocharis mini so out came the toothbrush and the fear started. I didn't want to uproot any of the plants. Anyway, cut a long story short got it cleaned and water changed, added the tanks inhabitants back to their new home and added a load of anubias to hopefully help with algae control. Wahoo job done.
I got up early Sunday, no lay in, I need to check dosing is running right. Oh god it's dosing both pumps at the same time (my fault I didn't dry run them first) so I pinched pump 1’s tube then pulled pump 2’s tube out of the bottle breathing a sigh of relief thinking I had stopped the dose entering the tank only to find out when checking both containers/bottles that the dose had been administered oh well nothing I can do about it now. HOW am I supposed to sort out the ferts lines now the tank is full, the lines run up the rear with only 2" between the tank and wall and go into the tank in the back corner, oh the joys of having a corner tank. I decided I would have to do everything at the pump or wait till next water change but didn't feel that was an option, I clamped the output lines to stop air getting in and then realised no that’s not right the tank will drain out, disconnected I can now mess about with timings and intervals, I found this to be a nightmare and could not get it to run right. I then found a tutorial, even then it wasn't easy after about 6 attempts and a whole bucket of stress I eventually got it running correctly, I think! Dosing into pots now as test for a few days.
After all the messing about with the above the lights had come on in the tank. I stared into the tank with disbelieve at what I was seeing there are loads of plants (AR mini, Staurogyne, MC and bits of the Eleocharis mini) stuck to the wall of the circulation pump. Here we go again then I see that the Reineckii mini has been almost completely obliterated apart from a few plants the rest are just stems and some have totally disappeared, by this stage. I have a mixture of emotions going on in my head including cursing the shrimp as they are eating it right in front of me, I feel like they are baiting me for a reaction the little sh*ts. I'm at a loss and don't know what to do, they look like they are now moving onto the Staurogyne. It’s now 2pm on a Sunday what the hell am I going to do to stop them! (I know it's only natural but when see your work getting destroyed you know how it feels). I ring @Aquarium Gardens and once more they come to my rescue and advise me to add some cucumber for the shrimp to eat saying they must be hungry, how hungry can they be they have devoured nearly a whole pot! I added 4 clumps of cucumber strips straight away and they flocked to it and are munching the hell out of it thank god, now they will leave the poor Reineckii alone. Problem sorted I thought.
I replanted all the poor floaters and have noticed some gaps in the MC, it's obvious where they have gone.
The first thing I did this morning (6am) checked the tank and to my relief everything was still intact, problems over. This was short-lived on arriving home for a quick visit at 10 am I can see the rest of the Reineckii is gone and another load of plants have been uprooted/partially eaten and again stuck to the pump side wall.
I have now removed some of the bunches of cucumber and replaced it some lettuce leaves, I have also ordered some almond and banana leaves in the hope they will leave the plants alone.
I did not have a chance to replant these tonight, tomorrow I will do a water change and replant then.
![20181210_201916[1].jpg](https://www.ukaps.org/forum/data/attachments/120/120001-5699194211f7f8d07adac3e4f2be85fb.jpg "20181210_201916[1].jpg")
So, the sage continues tomorrow….
Saturday's jobs drain the water, set up the ADS with the new ferts micro-macro after water is drained (I can move the tank out of the corner then), change light timings and power, adjust co2 for new timings, refill and finally do a PH profile....
I had to wait for lighting to come on prior to doing Saturdays water change, when it did, I spotted some BBA on the Monte Carlo and Eleocharis mini so out came the toothbrush and the fear started. I didn't want to uproot any of the plants. Anyway, cut a long story short got it cleaned and water changed, added the tanks inhabitants back to their new home and added a load of anubias to hopefully help with algae control. Wahoo job done.
I got up early Sunday, no lay in, I need to check dosing is running right. Oh god it's dosing both pumps at the same time (my fault I didn't dry run them first) so I pinched pump 1’s tube then pulled pump 2’s tube out of the bottle breathing a sigh of relief thinking I had stopped the dose entering the tank only to find out when checking both containers/bottles that the dose had been administered oh well nothing I can do about it now. HOW am I supposed to sort out the ferts lines now the tank is full, the lines run up the rear with only 2" between the tank and wall and go into the tank in the back corner, oh the joys of having a corner tank. I decided I would have to do everything at the pump or wait till next water change but didn't feel that was an option, I clamped the output lines to stop air getting in and then realised no that’s not right the tank will drain out, disconnected I can now mess about with timings and intervals, I found this to be a nightmare and could not get it to run right. I then found a tutorial, even then it wasn't easy after about 6 attempts and a whole bucket of stress I eventually got it running correctly, I think! Dosing into pots now as test for a few days.
After all the messing about with the above the lights had come on in the tank. I stared into the tank with disbelieve at what I was seeing there are loads of plants (AR mini, Staurogyne, MC and bits of the Eleocharis mini) stuck to the wall of the circulation pump. Here we go again then I see that the Reineckii mini has been almost completely obliterated apart from a few plants the rest are just stems and some have totally disappeared, by this stage. I have a mixture of emotions going on in my head including cursing the shrimp as they are eating it right in front of me, I feel like they are baiting me for a reaction the little sh*ts. I'm at a loss and don't know what to do, they look like they are now moving onto the Staurogyne. It’s now 2pm on a Sunday what the hell am I going to do to stop them! (I know it's only natural but when see your work getting destroyed you know how it feels). I ring @Aquarium Gardens and once more they come to my rescue and advise me to add some cucumber for the shrimp to eat saying they must be hungry, how hungry can they be they have devoured nearly a whole pot! I added 4 clumps of cucumber strips straight away and they flocked to it and are munching the hell out of it thank god, now they will leave the poor Reineckii alone. Problem sorted I thought.
I replanted all the poor floaters and have noticed some gaps in the MC, it's obvious where they have gone.
The first thing I did this morning (6am) checked the tank and to my relief everything was still intact, problems over. This was short-lived on arriving home for a quick visit at 10 am I can see the rest of the Reineckii is gone and another load of plants have been uprooted/partially eaten and again stuck to the pump side wall.
I have now removed some of the bunches of cucumber and replaced it some lettuce leaves, I have also ordered some almond and banana leaves in the hope they will leave the plants alone.
I did not have a chance to replant these tonight, tomorrow I will do a water change and replant then.
So, the sage continues tomorrow….
Commiserations 
What’s your livestock?
Can you put everyone easily caught back into a holding tank?
I usually wait a few days after a rescape before adding any livestock - in case of floaters or wood choosing skyward travel (this can happen anytime the first week rather than just the first day or 2) I’ve no worries re massive water changes or draining tank for replanting etc
Once I’m convinced hardscape is secure and plants are beginning to root, I’ll add in snails (they really are fantastic), the smaller shrimp (tigers are my favourite algae crew, more dedicated than most cherry’s, more attractive and predictable than japonica types)
If diatoms appear, I’ll move some otocinclus over
I usually only add fish back once plants are rooted - fish activity (especially larger fish like angels) can easily lift plants
What’s your livestock?
Can you put everyone easily caught back into a holding tank?
I usually wait a few days after a rescape before adding any livestock - in case of floaters or wood choosing skyward travel (this can happen anytime the first week rather than just the first day or 2) I’ve no worries re massive water changes or draining tank for replanting etc
Once I’m convinced hardscape is secure and plants are beginning to root, I’ll add in snails (they really are fantastic), the smaller shrimp (tigers are my favourite algae crew, more dedicated than most cherry’s, more attractive and predictable than japonica types)
If diatoms appear, I’ll move some otocinclus over
I usually only add fish back once plants are rooted - fish activity (especially larger fish like angels) can easily lift plants
I believe I now have a tank full (11) of brat shrimp. I have feed them cucumber and lettuce since last Sunday and even purchased dried Banana and Almond leaf just for them which I put in the tank on Wednesday, they have munched on the lettuce and cucumber but not the banana or almond which is supposed to shrimp food!
Anyone got any ideas why?
They have really made a mess of the scape it is virtual unrecognisable from original, planted 2wks tomorrow, stock returned 1wk tomorrow. I sure the shrimps are taking the proverbial p-$$ as I have sat and watched them rooting up plants and rolling the soil down the slopes, there are worse than brats!
Can soil be moved back up slopes now plants are in? or do I have to uproot plants (what's left of them) and sort soil then replant again ?
I never had any issues with them in the old scape but that was established before I got them!
Check it out for yourselves before and after
Day 3
Day 10. Reineckii is all gone now, just some roots left.
Day 14. You can see the devastation caused to the Eleocharis mini in just a few days.
I have replanted previous floaters, a couple of poor shots of 1 lot of the floating plants.
Anyone got any ideas why?
They have really made a mess of the scape it is virtual unrecognisable from original, planted 2wks tomorrow, stock returned 1wk tomorrow. I sure the shrimps are taking the proverbial p-$$ as I have sat and watched them rooting up plants and rolling the soil down the slopes, there are worse than brats!
Can soil be moved back up slopes now plants are in? or do I have to uproot plants (what's left of them) and sort soil then replant again ?
I never had any issues with them in the old scape but that was established before I got them!
Check it out for yourselves before and after
Day 3
Day 10. Reineckii is all gone now, just some roots left.
Day 14. You can see the devastation caused to the Eleocharis mini in just a few days.
I have replanted previous floaters, a couple of poor shots of 1 lot of the floating plants.
Loads to do again this weekend. Fitting new circulation pump (up to 4000ltrs ph) coming tomorrow. Plant some of the floating plants and my extra pot of Staurogyens in my propagator, if their gonna try and destroy them in the tank then I going to grow them externally. I need to check ADS calibration, measures this week have been a little off and bleed the lines, will be feeding directly into the tank. The last thing to do is adjust lighting period up after dropping it last week to 6hrs @50% now adjusting to 6hrs @60%. Checking PH profile today.
Konsa
Member
Hi
Dont know abot the anubias but the Staurogine is too wet.U need to keep it like just watered house plant and will grow fast and strong.Try to lower the water level in the tray so it is catching 0.5-1cm of the tray with the soil.I used to grow mine without any water at all just a mist every 4-5 days if is emersed (more often if is tank grown till it grows more robust leaves)If on other side is Monte Carlo same thing as for Staurogine but dont plant it just put it on top and gently press it down
Regards Konsa
Dont know abot the anubias but the Staurogine is too wet.U need to keep it like just watered house plant and will grow fast and strong.Try to lower the water level in the tray so it is catching 0.5-1cm of the tray with the soil.I used to grow mine without any water at all just a mist every 4-5 days if is emersed (more often if is tank grown till it grows more robust leaves)If on other side is Monte Carlo same thing as for Staurogine but dont plant it just put it on top and gently press it down
Regards Konsa
Commiserations
Is the top soil layer “Powder”?
- this really holds plants much more tightly
(I use Tropica AS whIch seems to have a slightly smaller grain size in both the regular and powder than ADA)
If you look at Green Aqua or Jurijs mit JS (both mostly use ADA Soils) tank startups, Clithon sp. snails added initially with japonica shrimp added once plants have rooted (though I believe Jurijs rarely adds japonica to his personal tanks)
- unfortunately you’re experiencing the reason for this method
Likely the Alternanthera leaves weren’t in the best condition though there are instances of even healthy established plants being decimated by J shrimp
Be cautious with the circulation pump as that current may lift soil and plants ... again once plants are rooted, it’s less concerning
Given the lack of plant mass - so no obstruction - I’m confused why your flow is so poor (except that T construct will definitely reduce filter flow)
I’m not sure which plants are floating but both Eleocharis and MC can be mostly buried in soil with just tips showing - this is better than the float/replant scenario which does cause physical damage to plant material
If the J shrimp are more damage than assistance, remove them ..... I haven’t added japonica shrimp in years much preferring tiger shrimp, cherry shrimp varieties
My newest acquisition is a group of orange “sunkist” shrimp, they may look very pale in shop, especially as juveniles, but color quickly in tank and do breed (there are rumours that they dont breed in aquaria, but I suspect this is merely that they aren’t as easy or prolific as the usual orange/ red/yellow cherry)
They seem to have a translucent shell with orange color coming from the “flesh” rather than the “painted” shell
Agree with Konsa, dry start method is damp soil not wet
Is the top soil layer “Powder”?
- this really holds plants much more tightly
(I use Tropica AS whIch seems to have a slightly smaller grain size in both the regular and powder than ADA)
If you look at Green Aqua or Jurijs mit JS (both mostly use ADA Soils) tank startups, Clithon sp. snails added initially with japonica shrimp added once plants have rooted (though I believe Jurijs rarely adds japonica to his personal tanks)
- unfortunately you’re experiencing the reason for this method
Likely the Alternanthera leaves weren’t in the best condition though there are instances of even healthy established plants being decimated by J shrimp
Be cautious with the circulation pump as that current may lift soil and plants ... again once plants are rooted, it’s less concerning
Given the lack of plant mass - so no obstruction - I’m confused why your flow is so poor (except that T construct will definitely reduce filter flow)
I’m not sure which plants are floating but both Eleocharis and MC can be mostly buried in soil with just tips showing - this is better than the float/replant scenario which does cause physical damage to plant material
If the J shrimp are more damage than assistance, remove them ..... I haven’t added japonica shrimp in years much preferring tiger shrimp, cherry shrimp varieties
My newest acquisition is a group of orange “sunkist” shrimp, they may look very pale in shop, especially as juveniles, but color quickly in tank and do breed (there are rumours that they dont breed in aquaria, but I suspect this is merely that they aren’t as easy or prolific as the usual orange/ red/yellow cherry)
They seem to have a translucent shell with orange color coming from the “flesh” rather than the “painted” shell
Agree with Konsa, dry start method is damp soil not wet
This weekends maintenance is done and it looks a lot better than it did!
Ferts now feeding direct to tank.
I was in a dilemma as to how to get scape back to where it was and get some shape back. My options were to lift all the carpet plants and move soil back, move soil with brush with plants in situ, using a pump and using the output to move soil, or hoover out the soil then put it back it correct place, I tried most of the above with the exception of removing the plants in the end I hoovered out the soil (about 1ltr) during water change. The new pump has now been fitted I opted for the Wavemaker 8000 Ltr instead of the 4000 because of price and power available. I do have it on the lowest speed setting for now.
@alto no powder on top just Amazonia. I do have a thin layer of old powder below it left over from the previous scape. Too late to worry about it now definitely cant add powder to a flooded tank bad enough adding the Amazonia back in mind you, it did not cloud up as bad as I thought it would,
Ferts now feeding direct to tank.
I was in a dilemma as to how to get scape back to where it was and get some shape back. My options were to lift all the carpet plants and move soil back, move soil with brush with plants in situ, using a pump and using the output to move soil, or hoover out the soil then put it back it correct place, I tried most of the above with the exception of removing the plants in the end I hoovered out the soil (about 1ltr) during water change. The new pump has now been fitted I opted for the Wavemaker 8000 Ltr instead of the 4000 because of price and power available. I do have it on the lowest speed setting for now.
@alto no powder on top just Amazonia. I do have a thin layer of old powder below it left over from the previous scape. Too late to worry about it now definitely cant add powder to a flooded tank bad enough adding the Amazonia back in mind you, it did not cloud up as bad as I thought it would,
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Its been a couple of weeks now since my last update so here goes. What's been happening? Obviously still doing the weekly maintenance and 50% water changes as well as almost daily replanting. I won't say this scape has been easy to maintain if fact I think I have made it so much harder for myself by using the alfagrog underneath (to save on cost), let me try and explain why, I have used quite steep slopes to try and create a sense of depth and it has come back to bite me on the rear, its created a lot more work than I had expected or wanted to have done. I have to hoover out soil and put it back every week because it keeps sliding down hills/slopes,
a few times I got so fed up with it and was debating on pulling the plants out and re-scaping but as my intention is to get a new regular tank for next re-scape I didn't see any point in starting over again especially with Christmas only a few days away, can you imagine the grief from the boss women I'd be 
. There really was only 1 solution that would allow me to continue with this scape, I would have to add more retainers to try and stop the soil slippage, hoping this will help with some of the floating plants too. I knew I was going to have problems doing this because the alfagrog is under the slopes of soil, I could only use barriers about an inch high causing its own problems as so as you try and plant the barriers move/float up then soil falls down the slope again. Fighting a losing battle, but I did manage to get there in the end.
After all the barriers soil and replanting done.
I've had some issues with my growth expectations https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/expected-growth.56157/. I'm dosing EI and using Co2 so it could be lighting flow or the Co2, I'm hoping that has been resolved now after I upped the Co2 a bit and lighting to 7hrs @ 75%. I added another a couple of pots each of MC, AR mini and grass, to cover some of the plant loss and try help with the soil retention. I can finally see some growth from the MC, the AR mini has got fresh roots so hopefully things are on the up. I am still having to do regular replanting though.
This is how it looked pre the new plants going in
after the planting
And this is currently after re-plant a couple of plants today but as you can see there is growth.
I've been messing around with ph profiling but decided I'm going to have leave it be until I've got the lighting up to 8hr @ full power. https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/new-scape-ph-profile.55995/#post-545446.
a few times I got so fed up with it and was debating on pulling the plants out and re-scaping but as my intention is to get a new regular tank for next re-scape I didn't see any point in starting over again especially with Christmas only a few days away, can you imagine the grief from the boss women I'd be . There really was only 1 solution that would allow me to continue with this scape, I would have to add more retainers to try and stop the soil slippage, hoping this will help with some of the floating plants too. I knew I was going to have problems doing this because the alfagrog is under the slopes of soil, I could only use barriers about an inch high causing its own problems as so as you try and plant the barriers move/float up then soil falls down the slope again. Fighting a losing battle, but I did manage to get there in the end.After all the barriers soil and replanting done.
I've had some issues with my growth expectations https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/expected-growth.56157/. I'm dosing EI and using Co2 so it could be lighting flow or the Co2, I'm hoping that has been resolved now after I upped the Co2 a bit and lighting to 7hrs @ 75%. I added another a couple of pots each of MC, AR mini and grass, to cover some of the plant loss and try help with the soil retention. I can finally see some growth from the MC, the AR mini has got fresh roots so hopefully things are on the up. I am still having to do regular replanting though.
This is how it looked pre the new plants going in
after the planting
And this is currently after re-plant a couple of plants today but as you can see there is growth.
I've been messing around with ph profiling but decided I'm going to have leave it be until I've got the lighting up to 8hr @ full power. https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/new-scape-ph-profile.55995/#post-545446.
Keith GH
Member
Carpman
Welcome to the world of Aquascaping and planting in sloping substrate.
Treat it as a massive learning curve. You have learnt one very valuable lesson "Cutting corners can often come back and bite you very hard".
Keith
Welcome to the world of Aquascaping and planting in sloping substrate.
Treat it as a massive learning curve. You have learnt one very valuable lesson "Cutting corners can often come back and bite you very hard".
Keith
Just a thought but why not get your CO2 maxed out now rather than changing it whenever your lights are at full power?
At least then you'll have a stable CO2 delivery for any light intensity and you'll never come up short with that side of things
At least then you'll have a stable CO2 delivery for any light intensity and you'll never come up short with that side of things
Because if I'm not mistaken then Co2 needs to be adjusted as demands by plants go up with photoperiod and the growing in, I am borderline now with the odd green /yellow drop checker points in the tank but fish are ok. Once the lighting has reached the 8hr @100% and plants have settled/rooted down (so I dont have to replant all the bloody time), the tank should stabilise with less variants to worry about making it easier.
Not much has changed at this stage soil on the left is still slipping even with the extra retainers, growth is a bit here and there. MC seems to be doing well at the moment but seems to be growing up rather than along, think this may be a flow issue, to strong maybe I dont know, so it can't root down (I down know maybe someone with more MC growing knowledge could pipe up). The AR mini growth seems to have slowed down. Photoperiod now at 8hrs @ 80%, 12.00 - 20.00, Co2 and flow pump starting 2 1/2hrs prior to lighting and ending 1hr before lights out, still dosing EI. I'm just playing the waiting game now, not going to bother moving the soil anymore there is only so many times you can bang your head of a brick wall before you realise your not actually getting anywhere.
Konsa
Member
Hi
it says "video unavailable "
it says "video unavailable "
Hi
it says "video unavailable "
Try it now, working for me.
Konsa
Member
All good now
