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Low Tech Sumatra Biotope

R

Ratvan

New Member
Joined
15 Oct 2024
Messages
13
Location
Mytholmroyd
So this little slice of swamp was set up 18/09/2024 and I am currently cycling by dosing Ammonia up to 4ppm each day and testing until the tank can process this.

Hardware
Tank: Fluval Evo Tank (L60cm x W30cm x H30cm)
Light: Stock LED Lighting on Nicrew Digital Controller
Heater: 100w Mini Aquarium Heater on Nicrew Temperature Probe
Filtration: 250LPH Submersible Pump
Stand: Ciano 60 Stand

Hardscape: 5KG Dragon Stone
Substrate: 10KG River Sand and various Botanicals

Over the past few weeks I have been playing with the layout of the Hardscape as well as some of the plants that I have later purchased and included within the tank

Initial Set Up
1000007324.jpg

up until now
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I am hoping that once my cycle is complete that this will become the home of a pair of Wild Betta, most likely from the Coccina Complex, very interested in the Api Api as well as the Persephone

Plant List is currently
Cryptocoryne Petchii
Hygrophila Polysperma
Lagenandra Meeboldii
Limnobium Laevigatum
Microsorum Pteropus Narrow
 
Hi all,
Welcome to UKAPS, nice tank and fish choice.
Ratvan said:
I am currently cycling by dosing Ammonia up to 4ppm each day and testing until the tank can process this.
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You can actually stop adding ammonia (NH3 / NH4). The traditional view of cycling, that it is performed by limited range of bacteria requiring high ammonia loading and carbonate hardness, isn't true.

In a planted tank you are never entirely reliant on the filter bacteria, and the microbes that actually occur in aquarium filters are a diverse range of bacteria and archaea that are favoured by low ammonia levels. Have a look at <"Is expensive bio media worth it?">.
First the bit <"we know">, that the nature of that <"microbial assemblage"> is <"fine-tuned over time"> to reflect the levels of ammonia (NH3) and dissolved oxygen in the water.
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What is important is time for both a diverse microbial flora to develop (in both filter and substrate) and the plants to be in active growth. After that all we need is sufficient dissolved oxygen to deal with the bioload, again plants help with this.

At UKAPS we've actually spoken to <"some of the scientists working in the field of nitrification">. One interesting finding has been that, in aquarium filters, the major nitrifying organism are COMAMMOX Nitrospira, that oxidise ammonium straight to nitrate (NO3-), without any nitrite (NO2-) formation <"https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/aem.00104-24">.
<"https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/aem.00104-24">McKnight MM, Neufeld JD. 2024. Comammox Nitrospira among dominant ammonia oxidizers within aquarium biofilter microbial communities.
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Have a look at (and linked threads if you have time):
<"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements>
<"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee">
<"Correspondence with the Neufeld lab. University of Waterloo">

Cheers Darrel
 
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Thank you for the welcome and the links to those threads, while they were interesting reading (and I am fairly certain I have been linked to similar articles previously) I have decided that I would continue with Cycling my tank in the "traditional way" and one that I am comfortable with and have had success with before.

However regarding the Biological diversity I am very much on board with this, as I have roughly a decades worth of knowledge of Reef and Coral tanks and was very keen on building life in the tank from the smallest organisms upwards. I am currently culturing Infusoria and will be also setting up a small Daphnia culture as well down the line for this tank and others. I am currently awaiting on a Macro lens to arrive but I am happy that I currently see life within the tank already. I will need the Macro lens to be able to photograph the small organisms that I already see within the tank. Fairly certain that I have at least two different types of Copepod (Planktonic and Benthic) I have seen some small worm appearing creatures that seem free swimming (or wriggling)
 
Ratvan said:
Ammonia up to 4ppm each day
Click to expand...

Welcome to the forum! Darrel is spot on above - loading ammonia to this level is completely counter productive to what you are trying to achieve in terms of establishing the correct microbial assemblage that the tank needs long term.You'd do much better water changing and diluting this down closer to 0.25ppm.

That aside though, your tank looks fantastic, exactly my preferred style - I'll be looking forward to seeing the Betta in it.
 
Hi all,
Ratvan said:
I have decided that I would continue with Cycling my tank in the "traditional way" and one that I am comfortable with and have had success with before.
Click to expand...
It is your tank and you can do what like. Personally I'm a great believer in <"if it ain't broke don't fix it">.
Ratvan said:
and the links to those threads, while they were interesting reading.
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I honestly think they are a lot more fundamentally important than being "interesting reading", for me these aren't like the views of internet gurus (or UKAPS experts) etc., this is research carried out by some of the leading research labs. in the world - <"Neufeld Research Group | Neufeld Research Group | University of Waterloo">.

I also think the problem with ammonia based cycling is that it is broken, and away from the <"Mbuna scenario"> it is always going to do more harm than good.

All I'd say is that adding ammonia <"could adversely effect your plants"> and certainly won't "cycle" the tank any more quickly and may actually delay the time taken until it reaches stability.

I understand that this is, to some degree "confirmation bias", because I actually <"started writing about "cycling""> before the <"recent advances in scientific knowledge">.
Ratvan said:
as I have roughly a decades worth of knowledge of Reef and Coral tanks
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Perfect, Tim Hovanec has been willing to acknowledge that the "Past is a different Country" - <"Tim Hovanec's "Nitrification in marine aquarium" article">. I've got a lot of time for Dr Hovanec.
Ratvan said:
However regarding the Biological diversity I am very much on board with this, as I have roughly a decades worth of knowledge of Reef and Coral tanks and was very keen on building life in the tank from the smallest organisms upwards.
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I think <"tank janitors"> are very much under appreciated in freshwater tanks. Once you are up and running, if you want Crangonyx pseudogracilis, Asellus aquaticus or Lumbriculus variegatus? I always have spares.

cheers Darrel
 
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@dw1305 that's an incredibly kind offer and definitely one that I would be very very interested in taking you up on down the line. Tank Janitors are definitely a great way to describe these, I am starting to see the signs of Hair Algae developing within the tank which I am excited about seeing.

How would you go about posting these out of interest? Damp Moss or similar I am assuming?
 
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I guess it’s probably worth mentioning this isn’t a strict biotope 😬👍 but they’re a lovely fish, however males and females aren’t always friends so you should think about how you can separate them when needed.

It took me months to give away api api…

These fish need rain water, if they’re wild and live food would be good too. Add a lot more leaf litter if you want to 😉

I’d suggest you remove the stones, not that they look bad just would be better replaced with more wood/sticks imo. It’ll feel a lot more natural that way too.

Good luck with the fish👍
 
castle said:
I guess it’s probably worth mentioning this isn’t a strict biotope 😬👍 but they’re a lovely fish, however males and females aren’t always friends so you should think about how you can separate them when needed.

It took me months to give away api api…

These fish need rain water, if they’re wild and live food would be good too. Add a lot more leaf litter if you want to 😉

I’d suggest you remove the stones, not that they look bad just would be better replaced with more wood/sticks imo. It’ll feel a lot more natural that way too.

Good luck with the fish👍
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Good morning, yes I am aware that it is probably more Biotope-ish or even loosely themed than an actually Biotope.
I have a spare 24 Lite tank that I have been cycling at the same time (using the same method) just in case the pair don't get on.
Do you still have any Api Api? I've been searching for them for months with no luck what so ever. I "settled" on the Persephone eventually

I have a Water Butt that I have been using for the filling and the water changes for this tank, where i live in Yorkshire there are a lot of Lead pipes still and also the Water Company tends to flush the pipes quite regularly. I learned this lesson the hard way while Reef Keeping and also with many of my fussier Houseplants.

And yes I prefer live foods, personally I feel that this encourages more of a natural behaviour and colouration then commercially manufactured foods.
 
If I am getting live creatures from Royal Mail I always stick a bit of A4 paper on the door with a note saying something like "Dear Postie, I am in and the package you're delivering today has live fish in it, please ring the doorbell!", because I've had them just shove a "we tried but you weren't in" note through the door without even trying to deliver the package or ring the doorbell while I was inside waiting before, which is very stressful. Luckily never had any doa even if they dleivered the next day, but it is an unpleasant experience.
 
shangman said:
If I am getting live creatures from Royal Mail I always stick a bit of A4 paper on the door with a note saying something like "Dear Postie, I am in and the package you're delivering today has live fish in it, please ring the doorbell!", because I've had them just shove a "we tried but you weren't in" note through the door without even trying to deliver the package or ring the doorbell while I was inside waiting before, which is very stressful. Luckily never had any doa even if they dleivered the next day, but it is an unpleasant experience.
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That's a great idea, I have arranged to work from home on that day so can watch the front and back door with anticipation (my house has a weird set up for addresses)

#edit i have had plenty of deliveries mainly coral with Royal mail so not overly concerned, however i will be watching that tracking info like a hawk
 
Hi all,
Ratvan said:
Seems that way
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I didn't think you could <"send fish via Royal Mail">? Maybe it is different for businesses?
A spokesman said: "Living creatures are prohibited but there are exceptions, like earthworms, bees and leeches.
"But if you are going to send one, you need to seek advice from us on packaging because it needs to be acceptable. And you need to use first class post and clearly label the parcel."
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Whenever I'm going to post some "tank janitors" to people, when the post-mistress / master asks me "what is in it" I always reply <"moss">, <"which is true, but not necessarily the whole answer .....">

cheers Darrel
 
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dw1305 said:
Hi all,

I didn't think you could send fish via Royal Mail? Maybe it is different for businesses?

Whenever I'm going to post some "tank janitors" to people, when the post-mistress / master asks me "what is in it" I always reply "moss", which is true .....

cheers Darrel
Click to expand...
My understanding of it is that you can but with clearly defined labelling (Live Fish, this way up, handle with care etc)
 
Ratvan said:
My understanding of it is that you can but with clearly defined labelling (Live Fish, this way up, handle with care etc)
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Wow. Their business and personal postal restrictions list says no live animals.
 
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