Lightning questions for a new setup!

[Konsa]

Hi Fred
I will second what ceg 4048 and foxfish have advised U.
If so worried about light intensity get the 4 bulb unit and simply disconnect 2 of the bulbs if not able to run them separately in begging while plants grow in. U can wrap tin foil strips on the bulbs if U need to dim them at any point too.
As for your plant list of so called difficult plants.
I have grown hc for about 3 months in small nano with easycarbo and 6w Aquanano led wich is very low light.Was doing ok till I put new led light over it which was considerably brighter and then melted away completely for about a month.
I keep Fissidens and Riccardia in my low techs some of them in complete shade.Still doing good and growing slowly.
Pogostemon and AR mini kept in high tech 72l with 39w pll lamp over them with success as soon as I went up on light55w pll lamp they both struggled and slowly melted away completely .
In almost all of my tanks I have kept the light increase has never done me any good.U really should worry about CO2, flow and distribution along with good fertiliser regime and good tank husbandry .
The rest of your plants on the list havent kept so can comment on them.
Regards Konsa

 

[Fred13]

I really cant decide...
Sorry i know that you are getting tired now because of my speculations. I will have stable co2. I aim to afford a good Ph Controller. i ll have good flow and fertilization. I am not that amateur in co2 tanks.I can reach 25-30ppm and stay there.

I really dont know what to choose.
I will go probably go for the quad fixture and dim the lights with a screen or foil strips for the first month or so..

This fixture is fluval Quad t5 ho . It says it has high polished reflectors. i paste you a link to have a look.
http://www.fluvalaquatics.com/us/pr...ple-fluorescent-lighting-system/#.Wi7AMVVl-Uk

I want to use arcadia freshwater pro and plant pro bulbs.
2 +2.
Freshwater pro is 3250 lumen each
Plant pro is 1950 lumen each.

Thank you and sorry again for reposting whole day. I still have several days to think of it...

 

[ian_m]

A pH controller is the first step to having something else to blame for poor CO2. A pH controller doesn't help get decent diffusion and distribution, in fact will probably lead to plant melting and algae farming far quicker than than if controlling CO2 manually.

So no to pH controller.

 

[Edvet]

I aim to afford a good Ph Controller.

You don't want a stable pH, neither do the fish. You'll want sufficient CO2, for that you will have to create a sufficient pH drop by getting plenty CO2 in the water column.

 

[Fred13]

A pH controller is the first step to having something else to blame for poor CO2. A pH controller doesn't help get decent diffusion and distribution, in fact will probably lead to plant melting and algae farming far quicker than than if controlling CO2 manually.

So no to pH controller.

You don't want a stable pH, neither do the fish. You'll want sufficient CO2, for that you will have to create a sufficient pH drop by getting plenty CO2 in the water column.

Ian, the ph controller stabilizes the ph in order to achieve maximum co2 into the tank relying on the well known co2-kh-ph chart. The diffusion and the distribution is another story i think.
As for distribution at this setup i will use an external reactor via the filter outlet. It is also aesthetic reasons because i dont like micro bubbles and i also believe that 1250 l/h can distribute it really well into 250liters. I always go with drop checkers and i always still measure the water. I am not experienced but i had zero plants melt at the past. Why the ph controller will lead to algae problems? I mean , distribution , diffusion and ph controller are 3 totally different things.


Edvert i never used a ph controller at the past. If i go now it would be my first time. As far as i understand i need to calculate my kh and then set my ph to the optimum level to achieve maximum and acceptable co2 into tank. Am i right?

As for light i am more and more closer to stick with the 2 bulbs. I see that you guys are so sure about the results and to be honest i should follow your rules. You have many years in hobby and i am into it only 2. Something i want you to consider is that my tank will be 19,6 inches wide (50cms). Do the 2 bulb fixture can spread light well?

 

[Zeus.]

I have a pH controler had it 12months, waste of money imo. Just get cheap pH pen to help you set the bps rates and pre light CO2 on time.

A pH controler will have a cheapo pH probe, which will fluctuate and need recalibrating,

PH probe doesn't accept for changing kH of tank form WC day till next WC. Yes KH and pH of tank change from WC Day. Dependant on your hardscape material.

So constant rate better if it's done right.

After 50% WC the baseline pH of my tank is 0.5pH higher than rest of week pre CO2 on time. Yes I do run an airstone at night all night so 16hrs.

Extra cost of pH controler would of refilled my 6Kg CO2 cylinders Six times.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Fred13]

I have a pH controler had it 12months, waste of money imo. Just get cheap pH pen to help you set the bps rates and pre light CO2 on time.

A pH controler will have a cheapo pH probe, which will fluctuate and need recalibrating,

PH probe doesn't accept for changing kH of tank form WC day till next WC. Yes KH and pH of tank change from WC Day. Dependant on your hardscape material.

So constant rate better if it's done right.

After 50% WC the baseline pH of my tank is 0.5pH higher than rest of week pre CO2 on time. Yes I do run an airstone at night all night so 16hrs.

Extra cost of pH controler would of refilled my 6Kg CO2 cylinders Six times.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Can you please tell me what ph controller are you using? I found dennerle ph controller to be pretty solid and stable.

Thing for me is that i dont want to go for 24/7 co2 as i used to do. I want to shut it off at night. This will cause an increasing at ph for probably 1 point. I want to avoid this for the fishes. Many say that those ph upside downs are acceptable but i really dont want to. I aim to high co2 levels , with constant high o2 levels by surface agitation and constant ph waters.

I cant understand why a good ph controller, precise , that can put you to the point you want to be is useless. We have dropcheckers , we have liquid tests , it isnt just a ph controller alone without supervision.

 

[ian_m]

I cant understand why a good ph controller, precise , that can put you to the point you want to be is useless. We have dropcheckers , we have liquid tests , it isnt just a ph controller alone without supervision.

A pH controller measures absolute pH levels not pH change as would be required to observe a 1 pH drop giving approximately 30ppm CO2. As your pH will vary as the tank water "gets dirty" & ages, as well as if you have just done a water change, you will need to set your pH controller every day to ensure you get the one pH drop at lights on.

I would say from observing here, most people with pH controllers end up ditching them as they lead to incorrect CO2 levels and associated plant melting and algae blooms.

Of course some people use them as a indicating device to back up their drop checker.

Some people use them as emergency CO2 cut off if their CO2 levels get too high, though if doing CO2 properly too high doesn't happen.

Remember pH probes need calibrating possibly monthly and only last about a year before needing replacement.

pH probes also suffer from interference as the signal levels are very small in order of millivolts. Many people experience different pH readings using pH controllers in differing locations in the tank, due to electrical interference. Easily checked as when they unplugged all the electrics pH reading were the same all over the tank.

You would be better spending your effort of getting CO2 levels correct using a simple needle valve, bubble counter, CO2 injection device and CO2 water flow(s) rather than complicating things with some bit of tech that in the end really just makes things worse.

See here for how CO2 varies with time using just continuous inject rate.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/co2-concentration-versus-time-the-maths.51423/

 

[Fred13]

Thank you guys..

So 2 decisions taken already. I will stick with the dual t5 HO and not the QUAD. I believe that i will come back and thank you for this . And second i wont take the ph controller and spend around 200 euros. I will buy a good regulator, solenoid a good reactor and i will focus on flow and diffusion spread. Such as i did at the past. All the research i v done those days prove that co2 is the most important factor and not the light. As for lights i found out from you and some reading , that a 40 par can grow hemianthus and other carpets. It is also adequate for red plants , alternantheras and others. So the dual fixture of t5 HO provide for me about 100 par at 20 inches? So its still high lightning..I think i am getting into this philosophy slowly. Fluval says its high polished reflectors so i guess its on the good reflectors side. My only last question for this is if the double system can handle 50 cms wide aquarium. I mean the spread.

Finally, i want to thank you for opening my eyes and saving me tons of money since i was so hot into taking a ph controller.
You probably saved me from an algae nightmare also.

In my last setup which i dont have photos now I had a 22 gallon tank with pressurized co2 and 3 x 24 W T5 HO fixture on it. hahah after our debate here i understand why i faced my worst algae issue ever. A filamentous algae that i was cleaning for about 5 months and keep returning back the next morning sometimes even worse.
Everything was so fast , i mean i had a full carpet in about 2-3 weeks max?! insane.. I got tired also of trimming which isnt always nice.
2 weeks after the setup the filamentous arrived and it was there till i shut down the tank.
It may was the ammonia leaching from the substrate? a new tank syndrome? But after the lightning debate here i see that 24x3 t5 ho in 86 liters of water was suicide..

 

[Edvet]

 

[Fred13]

I still have some days to think about it and i am also doing a research on leds. I have totally zero experience on this.

I v seen that some of you suggested me chichiros led series.
It has so many models. For 100 x 50 x 50 cms which model fits my needs? And are we talking about 1 or 2 bars? I dont understand how their power translated into tank

 

[Fred13]

hello friends,

i see those chichiros led. great value but what is that spectrum ?
i saw a picture and it looks so unnatural .
different shades of green are the same..

 

[Konsa]

Hi Fred
Im not a chichiros led user but I have came across that the colour temperature is approx 8000k.
With the rgb U will get more natural looks.
Plants dont care about spectrum.Just go for whatever is pleasing for U.
Regards Konsa

 

[Fred13]

Hello friends,

I finally bought the 2x39 T5 HO fixture mostly because i want to combine a spectrum that pleases my eyes. Its the Fluval t5 HO fixture.
But..
I am again confused..

I found a chart showing 2x39 hagen glo fixture having a little bit more than 40 par at 20 inches. I believe hagen its the same as fluval . Fluval just put its brand on it.
This chart is so different than others charts with t5 HO bulbs.The other charts show a par of about 40 for 1 bulb not 2.
And the reflector is higly polished not bad.
Whats wrong?
If its 40 par i cant probably grow my selected plans.

Shall i return it and go for the 4 bulbs?

I am attaching you few charts. One chart is only a hagen chart.

PS. I will use arcadia freshwater pro and plant pro

Explain me please..

Thank you

 

[Fred13]

Edited.

I found this below ... It is like the answer goes to me.

''Did anyone ever check out the Aquael Leddy Tube 8000K? It looks interesting and I'm considering the 16W, but I can't find any information about PAR.

I need some more light for my 250l tank to supplement the 2xHagen Glo 39W, but I can't decide wether to buy another one or put in LED.

Wow! You must want really high light! A two bulb Hagen Glo light should be enough to grow most any plants. That size tank, with two 39 watt T5HO bulbs is sold as a reef tank, and reef tanks use a lot more light than planted tanks.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline

 

[ceg4048]

Hello,
I think you should just stick with what you have purchased and carry on. You can grow any plant you want with 2 T5 bulbs. You are just wasting time and energy worrying about how much light you have.

Your energy would be much better spent worrying about your flow/distribution and CO2 technique because that will be your biggest problem. If your plants fail it will be as result of lack of attention to these factors, which are 100X more important than the amount of light, and I guarantee that the more light you have, the more problems you will have.

Cheers,

 

[Fred13]

Hello,
I think you should just stick with what you have purchased and carry on. You can grow any plant you want with 2 T5 bulbs. You are just wasting time and energy worrying about how much light you have.

Your energy would be much better spent worrying about your flow/distribution and CO2 technique because that will be your biggest problem. If your plants fail it will be as result of lack of attention to these factors, which are 100X more important than the amount of light, and I guarantee that the more light you have, the more problems you will have.

Cheers,

Hello Ceg and thank you!
Yes, indeed i spent energy probably at the wrong thing. I will stick with this and i believe i will be fine. It is a nice fixture btw with a nice aluminum curved reflector. Not best, but good !

As for the flow and co2. I will go with the eheim 4+ 600 a powerful filter for my liters. For co2, this time i am going to use an external reactor. I have bazooka atomizer, inline atomizer but i am not a fan of microbubbles in tank. I dont know what is better to use, the spray bar or the common output. I v never used a spray bar but now eheim has one included. I guess i should try and see.

 

[ceg4048]

Yes, try and use the spraybars. Have a study of the sticky thread https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/water-flow-in-the-planted-aquarium.1167/ in the Filtration forum section. This will show you how to use them.

Cheers,