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Lighting for emersed Echinodorus

Nont

Nont

Member
Joined
14 Dec 2021
Messages
298
Location
Thailand
Hello everyone,

I am currently planning on new setup with only Chihiros A501 - 33w I have. I wanted to have Echinodorus growing out like this picture (excuse for bad drawing) below and wondering if the lighting is enough for 3 plants or not?

DDA92844-DA5E-4584-81EB-ECBA065F7E39.jpeg
Cheers
 
It's hard to say, but you need quite a lot of PAR, Watts actually says nothing about useful PAR. Sword plants are quite hungry regarding food and light... In an indoor low tech environment, it's difficult to grow them emerged out of the water and serve both worlds (submerged and Emerged) well. With the light intensity, the emerged Sword plant requires it would be advisable to go for high tech setup.

Then Echinodorus is quite a large family and some are easier than others... It's a bit of trial and error to find which one does best in what you can provide.

This once was the Echinodorus Kleiner Bär (cultivar) in a High tech setup.
dscf7314-kopie-jpg.86234


After 4 years or so I ran out of CO² and I converted this tank to low tech again and this Echinodorus among other plants did not survive this switch in its emerged form. I guess it's because I had to cut down on fertilization too much. Till now I never managed to find another Echinodorus to grow like this long term in an aquarium or a pot indoors and tried quite a few different ones. Outdoors under the sun, they love to grow like this during the summer. With artificial light, I actually have no clue how much you would need in numbers, but you would need quite a lot.

Since you're from Thailand in a completely different climate it all could be a lot easier for you...
 
zozo said:
It's hard to say, but you need quite a lot of PAR, Watts actually says nothing about useful PAR. Sword plants are quite hungry regarding food and light... In an indoor low tech environment, it's difficult to grow them emerged out of the water and serve both worlds (submerged and Emerged) well. With the light intensity, the emerged Sword plant requires it would be advisable to go for high tech setup.

Then Echinodorus is quite a large family and some are easier than others... It's a bit of trial and error to find which one does best in what you can provide.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply, I’ll probably give mine a try to see if it works or not.
zozo said:
Since you're from Thailand in a completely different climate it all could be a lot easier for you...
Click to expand...
Yep, I grow mine in a pot for about 6 months now, it flowers everyday too! Could you identify what cultivar this is?

19F06865-55B5-4B47-AE82-673F62B03812.jpeg41314C10-CCE3-4B0D-87FE-F6A8A56F806B.jpeg

Cheers
 
Your outdoor potted sword is doing well because you are in Thailand with high temp and humidity. It’s hard to replicate in temperate region with cooler temp and low humidity. My emerged grown Anubias always develop brown edges, even though the submerged growth are lush.

Most sword plants need low light, specially the green variety. If they are doing well submerged, they will do well emerged under the same overhead light. The only constraint is humidity. If your room humidity is maintained low by AC, the emerged growth may struggle. Also, don’t expect moving your outdoor potted sword inside to thrive right away, as the plants need acclimation to lower light and humidity conditions. It’s best to let submerged grown to emerge on it’s own gradually to get used to different conditions. Sword develop different leaves for submerged and emerged condition and will be shock if the condition abruptly changed.
 
Hi all,
Natthanon said:
The sword plant project starts now and got a question.

I just pulled the plant out of the emersed pot and realized that the roots reached 8 inches. How deep should my substrate be? Is 4 inches enough?


View attachment 181534
Click to expand...
That is an absolutely perfect illustration of why <"plants make such a difference"> in the aquarium, and also why <"Diana Walstad talks so much about the aerial advantage">.

If you think of that root mass ramifying through the substrate and <"leaking organic carbon and oxygen"> into the rhizosphere it explains a lot about <"the enhanced nitrification potential"> of planted systems.

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all,

That is an absolutely perfect illustration of why <"plants make such a difference"> in the aquarium, and also why <"Diana Walstad talks so much about the aerial advantage">.

If you think of that root mass ramifying through the substrate and <"leaking organic carbon and oxygen"> into the rhizosphere it explains a lot about <"the enhanced nitrification potential"> of planted systems.

cheers Darrel
Click to expand...
Thanks @dw1305. Information like this and what has been provided earlier is why I joined this forum. Most appreciated.

I'll just enjoy the process and wait until the time is right
 
Hi all,
Smackbat said:
Information like this and what has been provided earlier is why I joined this forum. Most appreciated.
Click to expand...
I'm pleased the <"forum has helped">. We <"don't always agree with one another">, but what we do tend to have in common is that, even though we are plant orientated forum, we keep tanks with healthy fish, and I'm pretty sure that the plants are a large part of that.

You might be interested in <"Dr Timothy' Hovanec's comments......."> and the <"The soil substrate or dirted........">.

cheers Darrel
 
Wow, there is more roots than foliage. Amazon roots are invasive, and can take over. I planted mine in net pot, filled with gravel, to limit its expansion. Sword can uptake nutrients entirely from the water column, and extensive root system in the wild is more for anchoring to prevent washing away from stream flow.
 
Natthanon said:
The sword plant project starts now and got a question.

I just pulled the plant out of the emersed pot and realized that the roots reached 8 inches. How deep should my substrate be? Is 4 inches enough?


View attachment 181534
Click to expand...
Holy smokes that root system is ridiculously large! Unbelievable! who needs external filtration with a root system like that?

Cheers,
Michael
 
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Ria95 said:
10 cm is enough.
Click to expand...
I'm done setting the substrate up. I have to mix aqua soil with gravel and sand as I don't have enough 😅
dw1305 said:
If you think of that root mass ramifying through the substrate and <"leaking organic carbon and oxygen"> into the rhizosphere it explains a lot about <"the enhanced nitrification potential"> of planted systems.
Click to expand...
MichaelJ said:
Holy smokes that root system is ridiculously large! Unbelievable! who needs external filtration with a root system like that?
Click to expand...
I planned to have this tank run without filter (maybe powerhead for circulation) and probably low maintenance to no water change. Going to use plants such as Crypts, Sagittaria, Egeria densa and other fast growing plants that can thrive with only osmocote dosing, so I could save money for other scape.
 
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