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Lighting Advice Needed

Garuf said:
Hmmm. Looking at the photos again you've definitely got insufficient co2 hence the algaes and I suspect this build up but if even the finest of trimming is causing lethargy then I'm at a loss at what to suggest other than perhaps a fresh set up to restart the system as it were.
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2 co2 bubbles per second are entering the tank so do you mean there is a flow issue? This is what somebody speculated earlier in the thread and I've been wondering ever since how to improve the flow. If 2 powerheads don't bring about evenly distributed co2 flow, what will?

I do have green dust algae at a height of 2-3cm on the front pane of glass and at the back pane of glass. This is undoubtedly caused by a flow issue. But what I want to get rid of are the white particles growing everywhere as I 'm stumped as to how to tackle those...
 
Whitey89 said:
It all comes down to whats previously been stated by the looks, lower your lights or up your co2.

Still! :)
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You do mean better co2 distribution, right? Theres a lot of co2 going in and upping it anymore affects the behaviour of all the fish.

Nobody has confirmed that the white particles are an algae :crazy: ...
 
Hi
Have you checked your filter media?
Cleaned your filter?
Your crypts are suffering from melt.
This could be due to a large water change where the parameters haven't been in a tolerable level.
It could be a number of issues that's set that melt off.
I would cut remove all the affected leaves.
I have experienced this myself it can be quite concerting but I was brutal and did a complete removal of all leaves on the crypts.
The recovered after 4/6 weeks.
hoggie
 
Bubble mean nothing I'm afraid, my old nano ran 3bps and that was only 3gallons, this is down to the variability of bubble sizes between counters. For your tank size I would expect much more than 2bps on instinct. If you've a drop checker this would be a better but still imperfect indication of what your levels of co2 actually are. Distribution I don't think is the issue, I think it's the actual levels of co2 in the tank, algae is a hint that somethings a miss with co2 as is poor health in plants. The actual concentration in the water needs to be increased to see benefits, damaged leaves too need to be cut out, they won't repair and will only heamorage organic matter into the water column further exacerbating any algae issues.

I'm not sure the white particles are an algae, potentially a bacteria, potentially a precipitate of calcium.
 
hogan53 said:
Hi
Have you checked your filter media?
Cleaned your filter?
Your crypts are suffering from melt.
This could be due to a large water change where the parameters haven't been in a tolerable level.
It could be a number of issues that's set that melt off.
I would cut remove all the affected leaves.
I have experienced this myself it can be quite concerting but I was brutal and did a complete removal of all leaves on the crypts.
The recovered after 4/6 weeks.
hoggie
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The filter media is dipped in a bucket of tank water every 7 days. Staghorns and detritus are completely removed. I do do 50% water changes every 7 days. I replace tank water with a PH of 6.0 with dechlorinated tap water with a PH of 7.4. I follow an EI dosing regime which suggests doing a 50% W/C. Is this intolerable to the Crypts?
 
That the particles only appeared when you upped the light would suggest further more that it is a co2 related issue, ie too little. Lowering the light lowers the co2 demand meaning you need to add less, increase the light, increase the co2 you need to add, if you didn't increase the co2 when you did the light then this is a potential (read as near certainty) root of the problem.

iogenic decalcaification is a symptom of insufficient co2 but it's my understanding that it's very rare.

What is your co2 timing and light timing?
As said elsewhere it's increase the co2 or decrease the light.
 
Garuf said:
Bubble mean nothing I'm afraid, my old nano ran 3bps and that was only 3gallons, this is down to the variability of bubble sizes between counters. For your tank size I would expect much more than 2bps on instinct. If you've a drop checker this would be a better but still imperfect indication of what your levels of co2 actually are. Distribution I don't think is the issue, I think it's the actual levels of co2 in the tank, algae is a hint that somethings a miss with co2 as is poor health in plants. The actual concentration in the water needs to be increased to see benefits, damaged leaves too need to be cut out, they won't repair and will only heamorage organic matter into the water column further exacerbating any algae issues.

I'm not sure the white particles are an algae, potentially a bacteria, potentially a precipitate of calcium.
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Well 2 bps is my limit. 3 bps causes the fish to not eat and conserve energy at the bottom of the tank. The fish tell me theres too much co2 at 3 bps so I thought that 2 bps would be enough. If i am to take your advice, I better get my fish sold.
 
Garuf said:
That the particles only appeared when you upped the light would suggest further more that it is a co2 related issue, ie too little. Lowering the light lowers the co2 demand meaning you need to add less, increase the light, increase the co2 you need to add, if you didn't increase the co2 when you did the light then this is a potential (read as near certainty) root of the problem.

iogenic decalcaification is a symptom of insufficient co2 but it's my understanding that it's very rare.

What is your co2 timing and light timing?
As said elsewhere it's increase the co2 or decrease the light.
Click to expand...

The co2 supply is timed to come on at 2pm, and the lights come on at 5pm when the drop-checker is lime green.
 
You can increase the surface movement to get more o2 into the water at the same time you will need to inject more co2 because it's being driven off by the agitation, this will however lessen the effects of co2 in the water for the fish, the increase in co2 will increase plant health and which will inturn create more o2 and level out the issues. Perhaps not sold but temporarily rehomed for a month to get things back undercontrol might be wise. Good plant health, plenty of o2, happy fish.

It's important to get used to getting familiar with a drop checker and not using bps simply because it's such a useless measure for how much co2 is actually in the water because it's just so variable.

Reduce the co2 to come on an hour before and increase the injection rate perhaps? I found that after around 2 hours before lights on I would be injecting isufficient co2 during the photoperiod to maintain a good level but was nearly gassing the fish if I increased the injection rate, reducing the time allowed me to get more co2 in and maintaining a higher injection rate throughout the day.
 
Garuf said:
You can increase the surface movement to get more o2 into the water at the same time you will need to inject more co2 because it's being driven off by the agitation, this will however lessen the effects of co2 in the water for the fish, the increase in co2 will increase plant health and which will inturn create more o2 and level out the issues. Perhaps not sold but temporarily rehomed for a month to get things back undercontrol might be wise. Good plant health, plenty of o2, happy fish.

It's important to get used to getting familiar with a drop checker and not using bps simply because it's such a useless measure for how much co2 is actually in the water because it's just so variable.

Reduce the co2 to come on an hour before and increase the injection rate perhaps? I found that after around 2 hours before lights on I would be injecting isufficient co2 during the photoperiod to maintain a good level but was nearly gassing the fish if I increased the injection rate, reducing the time allowed me to get more co2 in and maintaining a higher injection rate throughout the day.
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I guess I could try changing the extent of water surface ripple. Unfortunately, I have a Cayman aquarium with a Bluwave 05 internal filter which is hardwired into the aquarium. As such, I cannot easily replace it with an internal that would allow for better surface rippling; if I did replace it, I have been informed by a qualified electrician that the heater and lighting unit which are hardwired and powered by the same AC cable as the filter, would receive a dangerous excess of offset power.

The filter itself is useless. It has a low flow output and the output nozzle is non-adjustable so changing the extent of rippling is, well, impossible. Thankfully, I do have another compact internal with a spraybar; perhaps this could induce some more rippling.

I will change the co2 schedule so that it co2 enters at 4pm instead of 2pm and won't touch the power-heads to change the direction of flow.
 
Have you tried lowering the lighting as suggested? What ferts are you dosing? 50% weekly for anything other than very high EI seems excessive based on what I've read (i don't keep high tech myself)
 
LancsRick said:
Have you tried lowering the lighting as suggested? What ferts are you dosing? 50% weekly for anything other than very high EI seems excessive based on what I've read (i don't keep high tech myself)
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I haven't made any changes to the lights as that will be like throwing money into the drain; the money I paid to buy Parvula, Sessiliflora, some Cryptocorynes et al which will die, guaranteed, if I lower the light levels. 'Very high' is the whole point of EI is what I though? You dose an excess of macros and micros to eliminate algae problems and do a large W/C to stop inordinate build up of those nutrients and inorganic issues?

Edit: Lowering the lights may well get rid of the white particles. But I specifically increased the PAR levels so that I could keep a larger range of plants. I'll be able to say goodbye to the particle issue, but I will also have to say farewell to admiral higher plants if I drop the light level :thumbdown:
 
They won't die, as Clive said earlier, the light level issue is a bit of a myth, what is far more important is the ratio of light to CO2. It looks like this tank has too much light for the amount of co2,and since you said the co2 is at the max level, that means lowering the lighting.

You're right when you say the point of EI is high dosing, I just couldn't spot a post where you said what dosing regime you were using.

Just trying to help.

P.s. my lileaopsis sessiflora is thriving in my 0.8wpg tank :)
 
LancsRick said:
They won't die, as Clive said earlier, the light level issue is a bit of a myth, what is far more important is the ratio of light to CO2. It looks like this tank has too much light for the amount of co2,and since you said the co2 is at the max level, that means lowering the lighting.

You're right when you say the point of EI is high dosing, I just couldn't spot a post where you said what dosing regime you were using.

Just trying to help.

P.s. my lileaopsis sessiflora is thriving in my 0.8wpg tank :)
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I think I will take your and Garuf's advice. That being to introduce more co2, though begin injection 1 hour before lights up instead of 3 hours before lights up. The 2 hours that are taken out of the equation may just allow for 3 bps (yes I know this is very inaccurate to rely on due to variability in bubble-size, but the higher the bps happens to be positively correlated with fish behavioural changes) to be injected without creating problems for the fish.

I will introduce more o2, somehow, which will further make 3 bps workable for the fish.

Lastly, I do understand that everyone is trying to help. If I come across as vicious then please try to understand how much of a hell hole keeping such a fish tank creates for its owner and you'll understand me a little more :twisted:
 
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