Intermittent Bucephalandra melt after treatment

[Miniandy]

I bleach dipped my collection of buce as I was suffering from Cladophora algea. I used a 1 in 20 concentration for 1 to 2 mins, followed by rigorous washing and a huge overdose of tap safe (dechlorinator) whilst left in a jug.

Some plants (1 in 5 batches) have subsequently melted and I wanted to try and find out what had gone wrong. I wanted to get thoughts on the following:

• I didn't time the dip, but had trialled the process on a test sample for 2.5mins which had worked well a few weeks ago, but felt it was too long. I amed for 1 min, but having not timed it precisely, it could have been longer. How affected are the plants if the dip time was longer, say 3 or 4 mins?
• Could they have been affected by cold water? Not thinking about it, just washed them off in cold tap water. Could this have affected them?
• I wonder if I forgot to add tapsafe on one of the batches, would this have mattered?
• Could adding too much tapsafe affect them?
• The buce is kept in my shrimp breeding tubs, I used a dose of Bacter AE in the tub afterwards (first time). Could that have caused issues?

Experiences and thoughts are very much welcome.

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi mate
I reckon cold tap water.
Contrary to most hobbyists' perception Bucephalandra is very sensitive to changes in water temperature and all sorts of additives!

 

[Simon Cole]

There are two types of bleach, thin bleach has fewer or no surfactants. I recently had a propagator badly infected with oomycetes or somesuch infection that was slowly wiping out several bucephalandra. I opted for thick bleach and exactly the same as you did, except I did not use dechlorinator and just gave them a rinse with very cold water. It completely halted the disease. <Bleach treatment> works for me. Every new plant I get is treated in exatcly this way, but they are mainly transferred to emergent growth, treatment is during the dark period so that stomata are closed, and they benefit from some time to reset.
I suspect that cladophora is better treated with glutaraldehyde.
I would hazard a guess that Bacter AE could accelerate microbial plant disease due to the <concoction> of ingredients it contains... Notwithstanding, it was the enzymes that got me. Why would anybody condider adding "Xylanase, Glucanase, Amylase, Protease, Hemicellulase" to a planted aquarium. The enzymes in Bacter AE are better for digesting plants.

 

[Miniandy]

Hi mate
I reckon cold tap water.
Contrary to most hobbyists' perception Bucephalandra is very sensitive to changes in water temperature and all sorts of additives!

Its interesting that only some of the plants were affected. However. I wont be doing the cold water thing again. Proper dim moment.

 

[Miniandy]

There are two types of bleach, thin bleach has fewer or no surfactants. I recently had a propagator badly infected with oomycetes or somesuch infection that was slowly wiping out several bucephalandra. I opted for thick bleach and exactly the same as you did, except I did not use dechlorinator and just gave them a rinse with very cold water. It completely halted the disease. <Bleach treatment> works for me. Every new plant I get is treated in exatcly this way, but they are mainly transferred to emergent growth, treatment is during the dark period so that stomata are closed, and they benefit from some time to reset.

That's really interesting, I did use thick bleach and went out of my way to find some that didn't have other additives. It would be useful to have a few more details on how you do this, its something that has little information on the forum and I think it would be a valuable 'sicky' thread.

I suspect that cladophora is better treated with glutaraldehyde.

You might be right, but again I was struggling to find a how-to guide. There are a few mentions here and there, but nothing I could reliably go on. Have you ever treated with it using as a dip? I cant treat the tank/tub with glutaraldehyde and I had little success spot dosing it in my main scape last year.

I would hazard a guess that Bacter AE could accelerate microbial plant disease due to the <concoction> of ingredients it contains... Notwithstanding, it was the enzymes that got me. Why would anybody condider adding "Xylanase, Glucanase, Amylase, Protease, Hemicellulase" to a planted aquarium. The enzymes in Bacter AE are better for digesting plants.

I have to admit, I am starting to think that it was more likely the Bacter AE. The way the plants are melting is almost disease-like and not from the treatment. The remaining remnants of the large buce plants are rotting from the outside in spreading along the rhizome.

 

[Little]

I’m quite surprised about the Bacter AE being a suspect.
I use it and have never had any issues with plants. Must be lucky.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The way the plants are melting is almost disease-like and not from the treatment. The remaining remnants of the large buce plants are rotting from the outside in spreading along the rhizome.

The only time something similar has happened to me was with Anubias barteri, rather than Bucephalandra spp., and I think it was <"an ammonia issue"> (so unlikely in this case).

That could still be cold (or bleach) damage. I'll be honest, I'm not a great fan of <"any biocides">, they can "work", but you are always balanced on a knife edge between "success" and "disaster" <"Algaecide ingredients thread">. I also think that the algae will return, if conditions still favour its growth.

I can see an advantage of <"sodium hypochlorite (NaClO) bleach"> is that it doesn't leave a permanent residue.

cheers Darrel

 

[Simon Cole]

It would be useful to have a few more details on how you do this, its something that has little information on the forum and I think it would be a valuable 'sicky' thread.

The chlorine concentration of Domestos bleach is between 100,000 and 250,000 ppm, whereas other cheaper brands may be around 50,000 ppm, and I would imagine that could include "thin" bleach.
We know that we want between 0.5 and 1 ppm for at least 30 seconds surface contact. But I often want the bleach to penetrate a bit further into infected plant tissue, so I treat plants in baths at higher concentrations. Chlorine is also used to sterilise plant tissue before in-vitro cultivation. It's just about giving them a quick bath if you notice anything becoming infected and removing infected material early.
Jurijs Jutjajevs has a video on the glutaraldehyde bath method <here>. I would also switch the plant to emergent for a while and see whether that helps.

From your description I think it sounds like you could have an active plant disease spreading inside your aquarium. I would consider moving susceptible plants out, and sterilising equipment and the plants before they go somewhere new. If they are just shrimp tubs, then personally I would sterelise them and start again. I give them a sprinkle of bee pollen, chlorella powder and kale powder to get a nice biological balance started.