How To: DIY co2. Secret Formula

[Marc Davis]

Hi guys, I'm sure you all know how to make co2, but i made this video to help newcomers to planted tanks. With such an easy way to make co2 and the massive impact it has on your plants, it should be a must for most planted tanks (that have any decent depth to them).

I know i found this forum when i was looking for diy co2 methods and found i needed something a bit more instructional so i made this video:

I hope the video answers any questions but if it doesnt then ask away:

 

[zozo]

We have a television program called (Literaly translated) Value Inspection Service.. It's kinda my favorite.. They have formed a team and scavange supermarkets select products and bring it to laboratories for investigation etc. etc. Lots of things are revealed and some are actualy quite shoking sometimes and makes you think why the hell am i buying that stuff. Anyway, not that long ago Sugar was under investigation, the question was "What is the differnce between Brown and White sugar?" Same procedure, laboratories and independed professionals were interviewed.

Conclusion was!?.. The difference next to the color is 0 and it's purely aesthetics and peace of mind if you feel like brown is beter or different and don't mind to spend an exra dime on iit. You are good to go.. But there is no chemical difference in brown and white sugar both are 100% identical. 🙂

 

[Marc Davis]

We have a television program called (Literaly translated) Value Inspection Service.. It's kinda my favorite.. They have formed a team and scavange supermarkets select products and bring it to laboratories for investigation etc. etc. Lots of things are revealed and some are actualy quite shoking sometimes and makes you think why the hell am i buying that stuff. Anyway, not that long ago Sugar was under investigation, the question was "What is the differnce between Brown and White sugar?" Same procedure, laboratories and independed professionals were interviewed.

Conclusion was!?.. The difference next to the color is 0 and it's purely aesthetics and peace of mind if you feel like brown is beter or different and don't mind to spend an exra dime on iit. You are good to go.. But there is no chemical difference in brown and white sugar both are 100% identical. 🙂

I heard this too. But i've done the exact same batches with and without the brown sugar and found that the brown sugar one lasted nearly a week longer @ minimum 1 bubble per second. Apparently its down to the molasses in brown sugar??

 

[zozo]

I heard this too. But i've done the exact same batches with and without the brown sugar and found that the brown sugar one lasted nearly a week longer @ minimum 1 bubble per second. Apparently its down to the molasses in brown sugar??

No idea, the investigation got triggered by an urban myth that sugar producers artifialy colored sugar brown to get more money out of it. For that no evidence was found... But the laboratory report stated. It doesn't make a difference anyway. Conclusion was both are 100% identical from a molucelair sugar perspective. White sugar is made from beets and brown from cane, but in the end sugar is sugar.. That's all i know.

Are you sure it's from the sugar?.. Temperatur also plays a major role in the yeast activity..

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I heard this too. But i've done the exact same batches with and without the brown sugar and found that the brown sugar one lasted nearly a week longer @ minimum 1 bubble per second. Apparently its down to the molasses in brown sugar??

You get a longer, more controlled reaction, if you use gelatin to reduce sugar availability. Search for the "DIY CO2 Jello method".

cheers Darrel

 

[Marc Davis]

Hi all,You get a longer, more controlled reaction, if you use gelatin to reduce sugar availability. Search for the "DIY CO2 Jello method".

cheers Darrel

How long are we talking? I get two weeks out of the above method. You think its possible to get even longer? (with minimum 1 bubble per second).

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

You think its possible to get even longer?

It should be.

Try adding some sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), it will slow acidification of the solution, another possibility is to use a "champagne yeast", it will tolerate higher levels of alcohol and acidity than baker's yeast (you don't need the baking powder with wine yeast).

Other options are adding some of a less accessible carbohydrate source (corn flour) as well as the sugar. I thing there might be advantages to the <"Jello-method"> in terms of how easy a new culture is to set-up.

cheers Darrel

 

[Marc Davis]

Hi all, It should be.

Try adding some sodium bicarbonate (NaHCO3), it will slow acidification of the solution, another possibility is to use a "champagne yeast", it will tolerate higher levels of alcohol and acidity than baker's yeast (you don't need the baking powder with wine yeast).

Other options are adding some of a less accessible carbohydrate source (corn flour) as well as the sugar. I thing there might be advantages to the <"Jello-method"> in terms of how easy a new culture is to set-up.

cheers Darrel

Well there is definitely some more experimenting to be had!

 

[BubblingUnder]

Are you sure it's from the sugar?.. Temperatur also plays a major role in the yeast activity

From my Home Wine making days I remember that you can buy heater mats for the bottle to control the reaction. Higher temperature for faster reaction & higher CO2 production for a shorter period. Very tasty.

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

Also coming back to my wine making days, you can buy sherry yeast which tolerates higher alcohol volumes. The problem is with maintaining a steady ferment rate. The process goes through three stages, aerobic which is quite slow, anaerobic which is vigorous and the tail end which is slow as the yeast dies off through high acidity and alcohol content. I found back in the day I had better success using two bottles spread a week or so apart. Also once you have the first two bottles going don't start a fresh one and skip the aerobic part, you're better off just leaving some yeast sediment in the bottle from the previous ferment which is already good to go in an anaerobic state and putting the the new sugary liquor over the top of that which gets going quicker. I found skipping aerobic and tail end yielded best results and try to keep two bottles at some stage of the anaerobic process. Gas works out better in the long run but good for a meddle. Coming back to the difference, I know in some wine making books some recipes favour brown sugar to white for certain wines like rice for instance so their must be some difference in the final taste if nothing else.

I watched a quite interesting programme about sugar quite a while back, apparently if sugar had just been invented today they would probably ban it on health grounds! It was the cocaine of the day, up until sugar came around people got their sugars just from indigenous fruit and veg in small quantities so when they had something with sugar in it was like a massive high. Only the very elite had access to it in small amounts and apparently a good land owner would now and again allow their workers a cup of tea or something with sugar in as a treat. Supposedly this came more and more common place and this is where the 10am brew came from which is now enshrined in most work places. In UK culture not having a brew would now be frowned upon.

Just putting that out there 😀

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

Just to add, keeping two bottles mid anaerobic means the second bottle quickly pushes out the air from the other bottle after you've opened it so tends to get going with the old yeast pretty much straight away rather than waiting 24 hours. You can buy a ready made kit off ebay which takes two bottles for under £20 to save messing about and making your own.

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

Just been thinking back there. I remember something about an over vigorous ferment causing a bad taste trait to certain wines - can't remember what that was now. However the solution was to have a slower, steadier ferment and the way to get round this was to mix up the sugar liquor so that it was destined to be no higher than 10% alcohol using SG gravity thing as a guide when the sugar had completely fermented out. You add this solution in 100ml increments over a period of time. I wonder if that might work and maybe add the new batch at night effectively switching the co2 turning the co2 down over the dark period and it would get up to speed by the next day.

I'll dig the book out and see what the sugar to water ratio was again.

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[BubblingUnder]

maybe add the new batch at night effectively switching the co2 turning the co2 down over the dark period and it would get up to speed by the next day

You could also put a heater mat on a timer, extending the overall fermentation period & reducing CO2 production overnight but increasing during the day when the mat warms up, though it might take a bit of trial & error to get right.

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

You could also put a heater mat on a timer, extending the overall fermentation period & reducing CO2 production overnight but increasing during the day when the mat warms up, though it might take a bit of trial & error to get right.

Therein lies the problem mate, unless you already have the equipment to hand you start getting into the territory of a gauge and bottle. I wouldn't try and use DIY on anything over say 50 ltrs. You could probably pick up a gauge with needle valve for Under £50 and a fire extinguisher which would last quite a long time on a tank that size. After that it's just refilling the FE but you have far more control over what's going on in the tank unlike DIY which has its limits. Co2 is like a drug to plants I find and if there's lots of fluctuations you get lots of problems.

Having said that, as long as the lighting isn't over the top and the plants aren't too demanding trickling in a bit of co2 through DIY can improve the overall health in the tank.

I couldn't find my book just now but I'm pretty sure about 3 pound of sugar in a gallon of water yields about 14% volume of alcohol when fully fermented. Getting that last 4% would be a slow process as the yeast was dieing off and the wine is effectively sterilising itself. If I was to have a pop again on a low lit tank just for a bit of a boost I think I would make up 2 pounds of sugar to a Gallon of water but keep in a separate container. Start off maybe a 2 ltr bottle with 500ml in then once it got going keep adding a 100ml or so of the original mix every couple of days at night until the bottle was full and repeat. I would say that would give you the longest steadiest ferment rather than it trying to burn off all the sugar in one go then tail off.

Every time you add some more of the mix you would be diluting down the acidity and alcohol content as well. Sort of drip feeding it if you like would be my guess.

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[Marc Davis]

Therein lies the problem mate, unless you already have the equipment to hand you start getting into the territory of a gauge and bottle. I wouldn't try and use DIY on anything over say 50 ltrs. You could probably pick up a gauge with needle valve for Under £50 and a fire extinguisher which would last quite a long time on a tank that size. After that it's just refilling the FE but you have far more control over what's going on in the tank unlike DIY which has its limits. Co2 is like a drug to plants I find and if there's lots of fluctuations you get lots of problems.

Having said that, as long as the lighting isn't over the top and the plants aren't too demanding trickling in a bit of co2 through DIY can improve the overall health in the tank.

I couldn't find my book just now but I'm pretty sure about 3 pound of sugar in a gallon of water yields about 14% volume of alcohol when fully fermented. Getting that last 4% would be a slow process as the yeast was dieing off and the wine is effectively sterilising itself. If I was to have a pop again on a low lit tank just for a bit of a boost I think I would make up 2 pounds of sugar to a Gallon of water but keep in a separate container. Start off maybe a 2 ltr bottle with 500ml in then once it got going keep adding a 100ml or so of the original mix every couple of days at night until the bottle was full and repeat. I would say that would give you the longest steadiest ferment rather than it trying to burn off all the sugar in one go then tail off.

Every time you add some more of the mix you would be diluting down the acidity and alcohol content as well. Sort of drip feeding it if you like would be my guess.

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My tank is 200L and I have my lights (2x T8 and 30w LED floodlight) on for 16 hours a day and i can assure you that my DIY co2 costs bugger all and does far more than improve the overall health in the tank.

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

My tank is 200L and I have my lights (2x T8 and 30w LED floodlight) on for 16 hours a day and i can assure you that my DIY co2 costs bugger all and does far more than improve the overall health in the tank.

I've no doubt it does mate. Any additional source of co2 dissolved into the water will improve the growth without a doubt. I was more meaning if you start buying equipment to keep co2 stable like heaters or the stuff I posted. Co2 equipment is very cheap these days as is gas. I pay £15 pound for 5kg, not sure how many bags of sugar I would have to buy to generate 5KG of co2 but there will be a monetary value. 5KG lasts me about a year in 100ltr tank keeping a lime green drop checker when I need it. Say I spent 5 or 6 quid maybe even more on bags of sugar over the year to keep a diy setup going you can see the difference is starting to get negligible. I'm paying a few quid a year to have total control over the co2 levels.

You can actually work out how much diy co2 production costs if molar weights and maths is your thing to see what a bag of sugar would generate but that would just be a bit pointless. Someone in here will do it though I bet https://lifefermented.wordpress.com/2014/01/22/how-much-co2-is-produced-from-brewing/

Your tank is in good shape. Been watching it on YouTube. Not sure what you mean by "Far more than improve the overall health" though. It's definitely benefiting from the extra co2. Diy has a niche I find. When people are running really high end lighting they often run into co2 related issues even with a lot of control over its Injection using quite expensive regulators and needle valves. Imagine trying to do this when the only thing you can do is sit, watch and see what happens.

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[Marc Davis]

I've no doubt it does mate. Any additional source of co2 dissolved into the water will improve the growth without a doubt. I was more meaning if you start buying equipment to keep co2 stable like heaters or the stuff I posted. Co2 equipment is very cheap these days as is gas. I pay £15 pound for 5kg, not sure how many bags of sugar I would have to buy to generate 5KG of co2 but there will be a monetary value. 5KG lasts me about a year in 100ltr tank keeping a lime green drop checker when I need it. Say I spent 5 or 6 quid maybe even more on bags of sugar over the year to keep a diy setup going you can see the difference is starting to get negligible. I'm paying a few quid a year to have total control over the co2 levels.

You can actually work out how much diy co2 production costs if molar weights and maths is your thing to see what a bag of sugar would generate but that would just be a bit pointless. Someone in here will do it though I bet https://lifefermented.wordpress.com/2014/01/22/how-much-co2-is-produced-from-brewing/

Your tank is in good shape. Been watching it on YouTube. Not sure what you mean by "Far more than improve the overall health" though. It's definitely benefiting from the extra co2. Diy has a niche I find. When people are running really high end lighting they often run into co2 related issues even with a lot of control over its Injection using quite expensive regulators and needle valves. Imagine trying to do this when the only thing you can do is sit, watch and see what happens.

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True true. When I say far more than improve health, I meant more than just a little bit.

The difference between no co2 and even 1bps seems to be HUGE in my limited experience.

I used to be struggling with algea, poor growth to no grown. Plants melting. Whole tank being dull looking. Then I thought I'd try the diy method because the wife wouldn't allow the cost of regulator and tank and what not. I couldn't believe the difference in just a few days. I feel bad for anyone who doesn't run some form of co2 now. That's the main reason I made the video. Tiny bit of effort and all your dreams of lush green plants filling everywhere as you had imagined just happen.

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

Definitely pal. Good maintenance and flow like your tank has goes a long way and sometimes with moderate enough lighting you can get away without co2 even with plants that are supposed to like co2. Even with everything on point a tank can be just on the edge and that little drop of co2 is just what the plants were waiting for to flourish.

I have a similar setup that was low lit and ran with no co2 for some time. Everything was just OK, plants were healthy but they just lacked that something. I'm fortunate enough to have a couple of regs kicking around that I've picked up second hand over the years on the cheap and access to cheap FE 'S or pub bottles refills so running the tank without was choice to see what I could get away with. I bottled it and put a diffuser in the tank, not chasing 1 point drops in ph or yellow drop checkers just 1 bubble a second and the plants boomed within a couple of weeks. It was as if they were screaming for just a little bit more co2 than what they were getting. No doubt I could have achieved the same results using a diy setup just like yours.

On the other hand, if I was to got to the forum page no doubt there would be a post there where someone with some Carlos fandango led light was having co2 related issues with plants and couldn't get their DC to get to the right colour on time. In the case of a pressurised system with solenoid, timer and decent needle valve they have options. With diy there isn't a great deal they can do other than reduce the lighting which defeats the object of buying the light.

You and I had a tank where diy fitted the niche it slots in so I'm all for diy as a cost effective way of adding some co2 and it is quite an interesting part of the hobby introducing people to the benefits. Also accessible to everyone

BTW I'm loving that Green Nymphea type lilly plant in there. I'm getting me one of those.



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[AverageWhiteBloke]

Actually, thinking about it, which I shouldn't really 😀 The maths isn't all that complicated but curiosity got the better of me. Very, very rough science here but going off that graph to reach a specific gravity of 1080 to produce a 10% volume alcohol of wine when fully fermented to dry you would need to add 2.2 pounds or roughly 1kg of sugar to an imperial gallon of water. Using Tescos as an average 1kg of sugar costs 69p and a wine fermented out from a starting gravity of 1080 would produce on average about 1kg of co2 so I guess if you wanted to put a monetary value on it for arguments sake you could say that diy cost about 69p per KG whereas pressurised is about £3 per KG (for me anyway) Jesus Christ I need to get a life 🙁

 

[AverageWhiteBloke]

or would it? that's a 4gallon or 18.9 litre batch so that would have 4kg of sugar in. So it would take 4kg of sugar to create 1kg of co2??? Where's the science people at when you need them. Wish I never started this now, I won't be able to sleep now.