How can I Improve more (500lts planted)

[HemantKumar]

My sump design was wrong .....water flow was reaching the pump slow ......removed all the partitions now the flows consistent
the pumps not dry running now will add some plastic box to filtration so that I get loads of water volume for the pump
thats returning ......

Learning a lot that's great will help me in future
1 1/4 inch pipe for drain from tank.....made a drill of 1.5 inch in tank
Just let all complete will put a video of same

Foxfish design for the co2 is nice but I put the atomizer in return of the pump can't think of reactor now frustrated let's see after few days

 

[flygja]

Hi Hemant,

This is my first attempt at a sump but it is working well after several months.



The prime design consideration with a planted tank is to avoid too much off gassing of CO2 which means sealing the sump to some degree. Because of the plants natural filtering capacity there is no need to be over complicated with refugium's or multiple sections etc. just keep it simple.
I'm using KS3 micro media and pond foams as used by Koi keepers, very economical and easily bought on eBay.

Hey Chris, that's an interesting overflow box. Looks like you use 3 lilies to suck water from the overflow box thats inside the tank, into the first part of the overflow box thats outside the tank, which then overflows again to the second part? What's the benefit of doing this?

 

[Chris Jackson]

Hey Chris, that's an interesting overflow box. Looks like you use 3 lilies to suck water from the overflow box thats inside the tank, into the first part of the overflow box thats outside the tank, which then overflows again to the second part? What's the benefit of doing this?

Hi Flygia,
The box is arranged that way so the the syphon does not break during a power or pump failure. When the flow stops the water outside settles to the level of the partition in the outside box as does the water on the tank side part of the box. Once water flows into the tank again then the levels rise again and the water overflows into the drain side of the box. Because I've kept the in tank side of the box as small as I felt I could and with the tank water level as high as I could reasonably manage the syphon pressure is not very great so three tubes are needed to cope with the flow from the 2000lph rated pump (actually flow is rather less than this due to the CO2 reactor and pipe work)

I looked at a lot of the ones that you can buy but they are pretty large and ugly relative to a 60cm tank so a fun diy project it was but next major rescape will have me drilling an outlet hole and doing away with the overflow box.
Hope that helps.
Cheers C

 

[HemantKumar]

sump up and running


I have put the atomizer directly to the return inlet of the pump



i still cant make the the drop checker green i have cranked up the co2 to high

spray bar in place and can see nice small mist of bubbles through it and flow all over the tank now

making cerges style reactor now ......20 " housing in place ....don't get transparent ones in here any where






will this design work


putting the atomizer instead of the co2 direct tubing in line

 

[Chris Jackson]

No that won't work much better than the atomiser alone, the Co2 will blow pretty much straight through it. I tried having the atomiser bubbles blowing straight into filter housing full of small bioballs, it was more effective than the atomiser alone but not as good as a dwell reactor and I still had to live with a tank full of micro bubbles...which isn't an option for me.
Take a look at foxfish's reactor for a great explanation and simple use of a drinks bottle to make inner dwell chamber Cerges type reactor.
My design is a twist on his with a modified inner chamber to create more turbulence and dwell time but is a bit complicated to make but I have found it to be very efficient.



To get the Co2 to saturate the water you need it to be constantly bumping into new molecules of water and also to be broken into smaller bubbles with greater surface area. Some kind of shaking device would probably work best or maybe a vortex reactor as mentioned earlier but ideally with some form of pulsating flow so that the vortex was constantly changing. Being able to adjust the flow through the reactor makes a huge difference and a clear housing helps enormously as well because you can see what is happening and adjust the flow to optimise things.

The Elos reactors are a cool design, good to look at and come with an optimised pump, but are costly and of course need frequent cleaning to keep looking good.



There are many options and lots of resources to be found with some Googling...

 

[HemantKumar]

Chris I understand the situation the major problem is you don't get housing which are transparent in India
secondly getting all this designs n fashionable products in India is nor possible no one imports them rather I do not even get sera reactors all use in line atomizer or diy reactors

 

[Chris Jackson]

Now that's an interesting design but you still need the inner chamber ( the one with with the burp hole) as well that stops the co2 flowing straight through and forces the dwell time to happen. Foxfish simply used a plastic water bottle, i first modified an old aquarium gravel syphon cleaner before making something from acrylic tube. Most of which must be available in India?

 

[foxfish]

The system you are using should work very well although you are restricting the pumps inlet to 16mm and that with the added C02 might be causing cavtatsion and reducing the pumps performance?
Many people feel the mist effect is best way to get fast plant growth.
Try using the cut down bottle on the pump inlet method I suggested and stick with that for the time being. Don't worry about a reator at the moment just get the plants growing.
You can build a reator but you don't need one, see if you can get a decent PH drop with what you have and the take your time designing a reactor if that is really what you want.

 

[HemantKumar]

Foxfish i havremoved the atomizer from the front of the motor ....aded a nrv in front of the motor ....as it was taking away water from the tank
the atomizer i am planning to by pass the motor outlet n add it back ......or run it through a poerhead separate for time being......

The reactor
pls tell me will a 10 inch housing be enough or 20 inch which I have got ?

I can't see through 20inch one

any more simpler method is there coz co2 is my major concern now

 

[Chris Jackson]

I agree with foxfish, slow down work with what you've already got think carefully about your reactor a 10" inch maybe enough maybe not depends on many things.

 

[foxfish]

Look at post 77 you can just hang your UP inside the bottle neck, is does not need to be connected to a pipe.
That way you wont restrict the flow but still get a fine mist.
Even the most advanced reactor will reduce flow, a single right angle bend will zap 25%
Can you find any acrylic pipe? A 50mm (2") x 100cm (4') long piece will make a simple effective reactor with minimal loss of flow.
However you already have a good method for the time being.

 

[HemantKumar]

Right now for a break i have introduced co2 direct from the power head n will run 4 to 10 bps for whole day n see



Cant put bottle now as have nrv in front of pump

 

[HemantKumar]

2 inch acrylic i can get but 4 feet
wont fit my cabinet
......30 inch max
what have to do with it

 

[Chris Jackson]

As you have a sump I personally think that you should have your existing pump serving for filter and circulation duties only and then have a separate pump to power the reactor because 5-6000lph through the reactor is way more than you need. Or you could put a T connector in the return line from the pump with a to divert a portion of the flow to go through the reactor far more slowly (this is more or less the system I am running with my sump). Using this method you could probably do very well just by filling your existing 20 inch housing with bio balls or course foam. With slower flow through the reactor a 10 inch housing will probably work as well.

 

[HemantKumar]

Chris I have made a separate bypass already in the line .........will add a flow controller now to bypass the flow from there to the reactor
and back to the main outlet .....I actually tried that yesterday but the pump started giving burping sound
now I think putting it way too near the pump was the reason.....i am thinking it to go directly into the spray bar from the pump bypass
but still the question is reactor ................i went to a friends house found his tank with sump working fine with no lids on the sump or sealed sump .....he runs co2 whole day he says ...........his reactor design is as this


also we came up with this idea ...just wanna know will this work


a plastic or copper pipe fully vortex and spiraled placed in the prefilter housing or container
the water wid co2 runs spiraly into the housing and goes out from the outlet
will this work
we can use plastic flexible pipe to .........instead of the water flowing down straight in one direction

will this work

 

[HemantKumar]

Added Ista max mix Large and its up and running still i think gassing off is there coz indicator not yet green

my tank overflow is also making to much noise any way to make it quiet
its side was on the right of the tank



my tank water levels also dropped ......
I can raise it with a outflow box put inside ....any other method

 

[Chris Jackson]

I really think you should have researched this system far more carefully before you began....

Anyway you can stop the noise by putting a tap/valve in the overflow pipe before the sump and adjust the flow so that you get a full syphon flow to the sump. This can also raise the water level in the tank to above the mesh if you wish but it does increase the risk of overflow so normally you'd have an emergency overflow as well depending on how your sump capacity is designed. Search online for "Bean Animal" overflow

 

[HemantKumar]

Seriously Chris ......I am doing so much research than normal I cant tell you
found out the most easy and efficient way is to have a overflow box form the inside to raise the water level
also the Maggie muffler style silencer works well reducing off gassing

now the sump part


look at point A

where the water enters and meet the first layer mat .....isn't there gassing off by splashes?

point B
the raining effect on bio media .......does this also cause gassing off coz have seen lots of sump that way

point C

I have seen lots of people leaving the outlet part open n not sealed isn't the gassing of there also

here are examples





so my design of sump is same .......just tell me how i can improve on my sump



I am planing to have two air tight lock box in the sump
sealed with one other by silicon .........then the first box is sealed with bulk head where water enters

rains in the second box with bio media and move towards outflow

maintenance is easy just open the first box change pads .......second box will not touch till i want to change the bio media which i don't have to

will there be gassing off now in the sump pls help and experts please answer

 

[Chris Jackson]

Ah Hemant I mean you should do all the research before you build and install the sump and aquarium overflow...

There are many ways to success... you do not have to have a trickle section at all and losing this would reduce off gassing but this is also one of the most powerful forms of filtration. Right now you could put a valve on the overflow to establish a full syphon and stop the splashing there and also put the outlet under water in the sump so there is no trickle or splash there anymore while you decide on you final design. Also minimise surface agitation in the tank by adjusting your inflow.

Also the filter bacteria use oxygen and respire co2 which off sets the effects of off-gassing but only in a well established and fully cycled filter so now this effect will be minimal with yours. Using more filter media will also help with this. So I'd suggest you silicon in vertical overflow partitions for your media as is more usual with sumps rather than putting boxes in there that waste all that space you have.

 

[HemantKumar]

I did that too i have water without splashes in the sump direct without any filter media Chris in the way still there was no effect .....have all the media in the sump and pipe directly in the water .....ball valve will put tomorrow then ......but don't you think that will restrict the flow of water entering the sump .....coz the power my sump has i need water to come asap in the sump

if you have any design pls post