High phosphate

[nigel bentley]

Hi,I've been having on off battle with algae for a few years now and seems at its worst now.Some bba on gravel, and a sort of dust algae on the crypts.
Today, I tested both tap water and aquarium water for phosphate
Results came out high as per picture.Problem is, I tested tap water(test tube on left) and this was also
high!! I do a 30 to 40% water change weekly.Really don't know how to address now and I would love some help please.
Tank details are:
400 litre tank filtered by 2 x Aqua one 1400 ocellaris.
Spray bar running along 2/3 of back wall.
Non co2
Seachem excel Liquid carbon daily
Api leaf zone once a week as instructions
Root taps
Plants are quick growing hydrophilic and sessiflora.A few valllis
who don't seem to mind the excel, plenty of crypts and some slowing growing anubias.Plus one peace lilly, roots immersed but growing out of Tank.
Other parameters:
Nitrite 0
Ph 8 but very stable
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 5ppm
Temp 22 to 23 deg c
Inhabitants:
13 black neon tetras
12 cherry barbs
5 nerite snails.
1 red tail shark
10 x various cory
2 x bristlenose plecos
2 x pearl gourami
I feed 3 times weekly and I have reduced the amount of food lately.
Led lights on 6 hours daily, 6 inches above water line.
I a bit flummoxed as to my next step having tested the phosphate from tap.
Any help would be greatly appreciated as I feel I may have diagnosed the problem but not sure how to address.
Many thanks
Nigel

 

[simon_the_plant_nerd]

Hi Nigel.

If you’re in the UK (and maybe elsewhere) you should be able to get a water quality report from your local water supplier. This will be far more accurate than your test kits to tell you exactly what is in your water and would help in narrowing down the problem. Once you have the report, post it here. 👍🏻

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

If you’re in the UK (and maybe elsewhere) you should be able to get a water quality report from your local water supplier. This will be far more accurate than your test kits to tell you exactly what is in your water and would help in narrowing down the problem.

That is the one, but you are unlikely to get a phosphate (PO4---) value, purely because there isn't a maximum permitted value, so the water company can't be in breach of it.

Water companies routinely add PO4--- to tap water to ensure that levels of heavy metals don't exceed regulatory limits. I'll adding some links when I have access to a PC. Edit added: <"2.5ppm PO4 in tap water">

Personally I'm not too concerned about PO4--- levels, I'm going to use plants to reduce these levels and healthy plant growth is the parameter I'm after.

cheers Darrel

 

[simon_the_plant_nerd]

Hi all,

That is the one, but you are unlikely to get a phosphate (PO4---) value, purely because there isn't a maximum permitted value, so the water company can't be in breach of it.

Water companies routinely add PO4--- to tap water to ensure that levels of heavy metals don't exceed regulatory limits. I'll adding some links when I have access to a PC.

Personally I'm not too concerned about PO4--- levels, I'm going to use plants to reduce these levels and healthy plant growth is the parameter I'm after.

cheers Darrel

I just checked my local water report and you’re right, phosphates are not included in the report. 👍🏻 Nitrates, nitrites and ammonia however are all included so I suppose the report could still be useful.

 

[nigel bentley]

Hi Simon and Darrel,
This is a copy of my water report although I noticed its dated 2022.
You are right Darrel, not a mention of phosphate. I don't really understand what the report means, but I know living in South London, the water is hard.
I'm just a little concerned that my plants are not uptaking enough of the phosphate. I do however, realise test results are not always reliable.
I was also wondering now whether poor husbandry is the cause of this algae outbreak. As I said earlier, I change 30 to 40 % water weekly but hardly ever clean the filters. I don't have too much media in either filters to try and keep water turnover high.
Cleaned pump last night and it was quite filthy and I have now also increased media.
Hopefully this may help????
I don't really understand the water report, I was wondering if any could help with this please?

Many thanks
Nigel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

This is a copy of my water report although I noticed its dated 2022.

Pretty standard for SE England. Your water is less hard and alkaline than a lot of people, but you have quite a lot of nitrate (NO3-). I'd guess that it is a "blended supply" with a mixture of aquifer and surface water (from the Weald?) Water hardness map in <"Cannot Grow Plants">. Because you have a lot of NO3-, you are likely to have some phosphate (PO4---) as well from sewage treatment and agriculture.

Cleaned pump last night and it was quite filthy and I have now also increased media.

That may make a difference, what really makes a difference is a high plant mass. So basically a lot more plants than you have (below). I'm a floating plant obsessive, but they really make a difference.

Have a look <"Cryptocoryne Parva Carpet">.

cheers Darrel

 

[nigel bentley]

Thanks for your reply Darrel. I have been increasing my plant load but I agree I need more. I would say substrate is 50% covered, so definitely room for lots more.
I really want to try floating plants Darrel but I worried my surface agitation will disrupt then.
I have seen floating aquarium rings, maybe they will help.Have you any favoured floating plants?
Thanks for your help

 

[ElleDee]

As another option to floating plants, I like anacharis and water sprite as very fast growers. Lots of people like to float water sprite, but I prefer it rooted in the substrate. It's very flexible. I don't leave these long term because they aren't very slick looking, but they are great for stabilizing a tank.

If I was in the UK I would check out Limnophila sessiliflora and Hygrophila polysperma, but these are illegal in the US so I don't have any direct experience.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Have you any favoured floating plants?

<"Oh yes">, but in terms of <"doing a job">? <"Any plant will do">.

but I worried my surface agitation will disrupt then.

I use <"Ceratopteris thalictroides and Ceratophyllum demersum"> as sub-surface floaters.

cheers Darrel

 

[Disaronno]

The API test result shows between 2-5ppm? That's normal range for my in-tank measurements and the plants are fine with it.

Somehow PO4 has become the boogeyman

 

[Andy Pierce]

I've gone with 25 ppm K, 7 ppm PO4, 16 ppm NO3, 5 ppm Mg for macros added to tap water with EI dosing in a CO2-injected system and I'm pretty happy with it. I deliberately elevated the phosphate from 3 ppm to 7 ppm to reduce green spot algae (GSA) which I believe is working for me although others have reported this hasn't helped with their GSA situation. I haven't had a problem with any type of algae in this set-up for a long time now. The tap water is straight-up Cambridgeshire tap water so dGH and dKH both around 17.

 

[simon_the_plant_nerd]

I really want to try floating plants Darrel but I worried my surface agitation will disrupt then.
I have seen floating aquarium rings, maybe they will help.Have you any favoured floating plants?
Thanks for your help

I’ve been using floating plants since I started my planted tank and I’m pretty convinced of their usefulness in absorbing excess nutrients, providing a shading for reducing high light output and as a canary for monitoring nutrient deficiency.

If you would like, I will send you some floaters for the cost of a stamp and a wee cardboard box.

 

[aquanoobie]

Hi,I've been having on off battle with algae for a few years now and seems at its worst now.Some bba on gravel, and a sort of dust algae on the crypts.
Today, I tested both tap water and aquarium water for phosphate
Results came out high as per picture.Problem is, I tested tap water(test tube on left) and this was also
high!!

Hi
The PO4 is not the problem.

 

[nigel bentley]

I’ve been using floating plants since I started my planted tank and I’m pretty convinced of their usefulness in absorbing excess nutrients, providing a shading for reducing high light output and as a canary for monitoring nutrient deficiency.

If you would like, I will send you some floaters for the cost of a stamp and a wee cardboard box.

Hi Simon, thanks very much for your help and kind offer.Im in the process of ordering more plants from Aquarium Gardens so will add some floaters to that.
This is such a lovely group, full of kind and helpful people.
Thans Simon.

 

[nigel bentley]

Thanks for everyone's input and help, I really appreciate it.
I'm relieved it seems phosphate isn't a problem.Think I unjustly panicked after first time testing of tap water for phosphate.
Way forward, increase plant stock, more filter media and a better filter cleaning regime
Thanks again
Nigel

 

[Andy Pierce]

Way forward, increase plant stock, more filter media and a better filter cleaning regime

In addition to the above, you might benefit from a periodic cleaning regime that doesn't involve the filter as well. Fine particulates can settle on plants/substrate/hardscape and then can't be removed by the filter. The "turkey baster technique" can get these back into the water column where the filter can take care of them. More filter media is also not necessarily better because it could potentially reduce water flow without meaningfully improving either microbial processing or particulate removal - this might be case specific.