Help! My Tank is Like a Desert

[Otomum]

This is my first post and sadly will be a long one, I hope I don’t lose you.

Tank running since Jan 2021

Juwel Rio 125 with Juwel Helialux light set at 40% 10am-1300 and then 30% 1500 – 2200 with ramp up and down

No CO2 or glut

Ph 7.2

DKH 2

GKH 7

TDS 220-240

HOB filter with all surface agitation and plants gently swaying, lightly stocked with mainly Harlequins

It seems I can’t grow plants in this tank. I upgraded, firstly from a 60l to an 80l, then ultimately to this one, which is where my problems started. It was spectacular at one point, but has slowly declined. I am not sure really what has changed.

There is no algae, but no plant growth either. Anubias barely grow, Java Fern has perished, Java moss just goes brown and brittle looking but occasionally puts on some new growth, Hygrophilla Rosanervig keeps breaking up, Bacopa Caroliniana grows really slowly and leaves are getting smaller and smaller, Vallisneria torta doing nothing, Bolbitis just sits there and looks a little sickly, Dwarf Sag not running like it used to. I have water lettuce which are just going smaller and smaller (almost gone to be honest).

It is like the tank is baron, like it’s had weedkiller in it. There’s no algae and no visible biofilm on the surface – unlike any other tank I have ever had or still have.

I dose ¼ EI for macros as it’s cheaper than buying premixed, but I do buy premixed micros.

I am scared to death of upping my fertiliser, as each time I do this I start to lose livestock – mainly otos and/or corydoras. This is heart breaking for me, as I am proud to say that many of my fish and shrimp are geriatrics (one oto lived to be 8, shrimps are 8), but it is not the older ones that peg out. Just this week I added some extra iron (still not a full EI dose) and the next morning I fished out a dead otocinclus.

I’ve kept fish for years and set up a planted tank in 2015 and it was like a jungle… worked my way up to this one and couldn’t be more disappointed. I’d rather have problem algae than none at all, it just isn’t natural… thinking of giving up and downsizing. Any ideas please? I have attached photos of then and now...

 

[richardcunliffe]

There are wiser than I about.

What's your substrate? Personally, I don't dose at all, relying I suppose on fish waste and the nutrient substrate below aquasoil. Possible you've exhausted this with light stocking and relatively long tank life? (I'm all for keeping thanks running for several years)

I'd think about upping your light levels. Go for an 8 hour block at much higher light %. I don't know the light but your tank is fairly deep at 50cm.

As I say, hopefully some other advice will also be forthcoming

 

[hypnogogia]

From the photos it doesn’t look as bad as you describe it. A few questions:

1. What light do you use?
2. On your previous tanks, did you also doe 1/4 EI?
3. I find it hard to believe that upping fertilisers affects your fish. It leads me to believe that perhaps there is something wrong with your salts. What salts are you using and where did you purchase them?

 

[richardcunliffe]

Juwel Helialux light

@hypnogogia

 

[hypnogogia]

@richardcunliffe, thanks, I missed that.

@Otomum, I’d increase light intensity to 60% and perhaps reduce the length of time to 10hrs. The Helialux is not a particularly powerful light in terms of PAR, so more intensity may well help.

 

[bazz]

Are you doing any water changes?

 

[Otomum]

Thank you all for your replies.

The substrate is inactive Unipac sand. This is all I have ever used in any of my tanks. I sometimes add some root tabs around the Vals and Sag, although I haven't lately as I believe they can still feed from the water column.

I haven't used EI in my other tanks, they are dosed with either Profito or TNC lite, and not regularly either! They also have a very low fish stock and much lower lighting to be honest. The plants romp away. I did for a while increase the lighting to 60% as suggested, but it just made matters a lot worse - especially for the Anubias and Java ferns. The light is only on for ten hours, as there is a siesta in the middle of the day.

My new salts are from Aqua Design and I have only been using them for the last two weeks, but over this last 4 years I have tried APUK salts, as well as pre-mixed fertilisers.

I do a 40-50% water change each week and don't stir up more than 1/3 of the sand at any one time.

Hypnogogia I know you say it doesn't look that bad, but when you look at the before and after shots, it is a shadow of its former self, and getting worse. The size of the Water Lettuce on picture 5, I was fishing them out twice a week... now they just fade away...

It is so frustrating as I am throwing everything at this tank and all I see extra of is fish loss, which I have never been used to 🙁

 

[PARAGUAY]

You may have a water quality problem ,unrelated to fertiliser dosing. The amount of EI dosage is way to high on a low tech,acc. to John Whelan (APFUK)PFK article with Nathan Hill, For now try a all in one or dose as your sucessful other aquariums.

 

[Otomum]

You may have a water quality problem ,unrelated to fertiliser dosing. The amount of EI dosage is way to high on a low tech,acc. to John Whelan (APFUK)PFK article with Nathan Hill, For now try a all in one or dose as your sucessful other aquariums.

I only dose 1/4 EI and I have tried all sorts of pre-mixed at varying doses... the best was TNC lite but then everything just ground to a halt... there obviously is something affecting fish (though not shrimps or inverts) but with having geriatric fishes and Amanos I doubt it is a chronic problem, it is just always an unhappy coincidence that it happens when I dose any extra fertilisers. I went 7 years without losing a single fish... I do check for ammonia and there is never any measurable. Possible that it is gut parasites I suppose.

 

[Aqua360]

My assumption would be that it's the light, is changing/upgrading feasible?

 

[Connswater]

Juwel Helialux light set at 40% 10am-1300 and then 30% 1500 – 2200

Light , as we all know is life, yes I know folks live in fear of algae, but green filament algae at least tells you the light is strong enough and long enough for green plant cell photosynthesis. My pond is currently coming alive, house plants regrowing, overwintered pelargoniums are now in bloom, last blooms were late November. By this point in March we have roughly 11 hours of daylight in the British Isles, equatorial plants get approximately 12 hours a day, 365 days a year, sometimes it is cloudy, often it rains heavily, but they get basically a consistent duration of light and of course it is bright light. The intensity of the sun on the equator is very roughly around twice that of the sun here on a sunny day.
My advice, would be to run your fairly weak lights on 100% for 7 hours a day, and have a very short ramp up and ramp down, 15 minutes each side, it does not need to be long, the dawn and dusk is not lengthy in the tropics.

By way of comparison, my tank is around 250 litres, I'm currently using 186 watts of LED light, full blast 4 hours a day, of which lighting 130 watts is on 8 hours a day. I do however use CO2, which is directly connected to the long lighting phase, I don't like CO2 coming on before my lights, hence the 2 hours before and after full blast, to just make sure I'm up to around 20 ppm of CO2 in the water column. Up until recently I was using more light, I'm trying to reduce trimming and filament algae, the latter wouldn't be an issue if my tank was conventionally accessible, but it is rear access and twisting a stick to remove filament algae is not that easy.

I'm not convinced by the fertiliser explanation for your issues, light and CO2 are the major deficiencies in most fish stocked tanks, I tested my water yesterday and couldn't get a Nitrate reading, yet yesterday there was fierce pearling during the full blast lighting phase, plants need macro and micro nutrients, but natural healthy waters are very water column lean. Filters are, at least to some extent, the Nitrate producing engines of a planted tank.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I’d rather have problem algae than none at all

That is a very good point, some <"green algae growth"> would tell you you have <"suitable conditions for plant growth">. I'd try adding a small amount of a <"complete fertiliser"> and <"ChemPak Sequestered Iron">?

I only dose 1/4 EI and I have tried all sorts of pre-mixed at varying doses... the best was TNC lite

You could be phosphate deficient <"From Reef to Nature Aquarium a journey">.

cheers Darrel

 

[Otomum]

Light , as we all know is life, yes I know folks live in fear of algae, but green filament algae at least tells you the light is strong enough and long enough for green plant cell photosynthesis. My pond is currently coming alive, house plants regrowing, overwintered pelargoniums are now in bloom, last blooms were late November. By this point in March we have roughly 11 hours of daylight in the British Isles, equatorial plants get approximately 12 hours a day, 365 days a year, sometimes it is cloudy, often it rains heavily, but they get basically a consistent duration of light and of course it is bright light. The intensity of the sun on the equator is very roughly around twice that of the sun here on a sunny day.
My advice, would be to run your fairly weak lights on 100% for 7 hours a day, and have a very short ramp up and ramp down, 15 minutes each side, it does not need to be long, the dawn and dusk is not lengthy in the tropics.

By way of comparison, my tank is around 250 litres, I'm currently using 186 watts of LED light, full blast 4 hours a day, of which lighting 130 watts is on 8 hours a day. I do however use CO2, which is directly connected to the long lighting phase, I don't like CO2 coming on before my lights, hence the 2 hours before and after full blast, to just make sure I'm up to around 20 ppm of CO2 in the water column. Up until recently I was using more light, I'm trying to reduce trimming and filament algae, the latter wouldn't be an issue if my tank was conventionally accessible, but it is rear access and twisting a stick to remove filament algae is not that easy.

I'm not convinced by the fertiliser explanation for your issues, light and CO2 are the major deficiencies in most fish stocked tanks, I tested my water yesterday and couldn't get a Nitrate reading, yet yesterday there was fierce pearling during the full blast lighting phase, plants need macro and micro nutrients, but natural healthy waters are very water column lean. Filters are, at least to some extent, the Nitrate producing engines of a planted tank.

I certainly get your point, but last time I upped the light (gradually) it ended in disaster, the the Anubias and Java fern hated it.

 

[Otomum]

Hi all,

That is a very good point, some <"green algae growth"> would tell you you have <"suitable conditions for plant growth">. I'd try adding a small amount of a <"complete fertiliser"> and <"ChemPak Sequestered Iron">?

You could be phosphate deficient <"From Reef to Nature Aquarium a journey">.

cheers Darrel

I think you may have a point here. I have to say I never really added phosphate as our tap water is very high in it, but maybe it's not as available to plants..? Since adding my macro mix containing phosphate the plants started to pick up slightly, looking stronger and bigger leaves etc, but then almost straight away they started to look pale and new growth was white... hence I added some DPTA 7% iron and low and behold the very next day a dead oto. I don't like these sort of coincidences. Could this be an effect of the iron? I know that otos need algae, but I do supplement their diets and they do eat... and send it back out the other end too 😉 The same happened when I added TNC complete for a while, marginally better plant growth but a dead fish incident.

 

[Connswater]

Anubias and Java fern hated it

Low light plants agreed, Java fern gets covered in my tank with algae, not just I think, directly because of the light, but because it gets overexposed after trimming of stem plants, and then gets shaded and the nutrients stolen by faster growing plants.

Most of your plants are not shade tolerant.

You can grow both types of plants in the same tank but you need to engineer different micro climates, not completely easy. But hygrophilia, sagittaria and bacopa will not thrive in low light and your chosen light level is very low.

I have used Juwel stock lighting with success for crypts, vallis and swords etc., at full power. I once had a Juwel tank with light hungry plants, eleocharis, bacopa etc., but used four T5 tubes, the only issues were heat, the flaps had to stay open. And of course, all floating plants like good light. You could completely change your tank and go for anubias (plants I personally find a bit boring to be honest) Java fern, and a careful selection of crypts, but even then I would want to turn the intensity up. People complain the Superfish lights are too bright, but in my experience they are about right in terms of PAR for the tanks they come supplied with. Definitely, if CO2 is too low and light too high plants die from hunger and algae feed off the plants, if light is too low, plants die from lack of light and algae species adapted to lower levels of light feed on the dying plants. I'm not sure that is such great news for you, but you have a lovely set-up, and great water. I doubt very much your tank lacks enough Nitrate, Phosphate, or Potassium or any of the micros for plants to grow, in native waters all the key nutrients are in low levels, but light is abundant and where plants flourish CO2 levels are not close to zero, the norm in many tanks. For medium plants Tropica recommends 1/2 to 1 watt per litre, so 60 watts or 120 watts, you are running 26 watts at 40% power.
Here is a link:

The right light for your aquarium - Tropica Aquarium Plants

Choose the right light for your tank

tropica.com

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I have to say I never really added phosphate as our tap water is very high in it,

Pretty common, added to <"control plumbosolvency">.

but maybe it's not as available to plants..?

There are a lot of insoluble phosphate compounds, but I'm going to guess yours probably is plant available.

but then almost straight away they started to look pale and new growth was white... hence I added some DPTA 7% iron

New growth chlorosis is a pretty good indicator of <"iron deficiency">. Have a look at @keef321 's photos in <"Cloudy Water Hazy Water and Algae!">.

hence I added some DPTA 7% iron and low and behold the very next day a dead oto. I don't like these sort of coincidences. Could this be an effect of the iron? .... The same happened when I added TNC complete for a while, marginally better plant growth but a dead fish incident.

Probably not, and just a coincidence.

cheers Darrel

 

[Otomum]

Connswater I hate to ask a question/ask for help and then appear to be arguing against the advice being offered, so sorry if I sound like I am. There is just soooo much conflicting info in the hobby. After 4 years of this tank I thought I would have been able to figure it out by now, but if it's not one thing with my plants in this tank it's another! With regards to the light, my other tanks are really, really low light, low fertilisation and few fish, yet they have biofilm, algae on the glass, heathy fish and the supposedly high light plants romping away with good sized leaves and good colour. I take plants out of those tanks, put them in this one and they just run out of steam.

 

[Otomum]

Darrel

Thank you, I shall try not to be so paranoid about the fertilisers and watch and wait with the increased P and a pinch of iron. I miss the days when I had to scrape algae off the glass, which was at least a sign to me that my tank was healthy 🙁

 

[Connswater]

really low light

If you can make that work, carry on. I'm somewhat obsessed with working with hard water, and plants definitely need light abundantly to cope with harder water, but honestly 40% of Juwel lighting is definitely really low lighting. Good luck.