Heated Propagator: An emersed growing experiment . . .

[G H Nelson]

Hi Wooki
I use High K as a foliar feed....don't exceed the recommended grams per litre!
I use 0.5 grams per 2 Litre!
Ive never had much success with the more difficult Invitro Crypts....especially Nurii.....I would make up a mix of gravel and crushed lava rock for the Parva media!
😉

 

[Wookii]

Hi Wooki
I use High K as a foliar feed....don't exceed the recommended grams per litre!
I use 0.5 grams per 2 Litre!
Ive never had much success with the more difficult Invitro Crypts....especially Nurii.....I would make up a mix of gravel and crushed lava rock for the Parva media!
😉

Would you recommend the same grams per litre for the root solution too?

 

[G H Nelson]

This foilage feed will eventually seep down into the holding container so you may not need to add root dosing solution!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

These were the only potted plants from an eBay seller, and were a bit puny when they arrived

My guess is that it was ill fate that befell them before they ever came to you.

Chilling damage might be an option, or it could be that they had been kept in too dark a place (before they came to you).

cheers Darrel

 

[Konsa]

Day 9:

Bit of a mixed bag after just over a week. Some of the invitro plants have definitely grown and are starting to show some new leaves, though are remaining a little ‘limp’. Of the potted plants, some leaves have melted, whilst there has been some growth in the remaining leaves and some new leaves starting to show.


View attachment 180584

As you can see though, the Crypt Parva has comprehensively melted. These were the only potted plants from an eBay seller, and were a bit puny when they arrived (compared to the bushy Tropica pots I have had in the past from retailers). Whether this is a factor, I don’t know - I’ve never had much success with eBay plants - or whether the growing cubes are too wet or there is some other factor?

View attachment 180585

I definitely think, if I replace the Parva, I will also replace the growing cubes with the Seramis to get more air to, and less water drenching of, the roots, as suggested above. The Seramis wicks up water rapidly between the grains, but let’s a lot more air through the gaps.

Hi there
The medium seems a little too wet for my liking.
Sorry to hear about the C parva.
It might have been a weak plant that failed to adapt.Do try another batch tho.
I have only used Osmocote slow release granules as fertilizer as I always keep my propagators drier and it released nutrients gradually rather than dumping them rapidly
Sth else I use is Canna Rhyzotonic. It really give the plants a boost to develop strong root systems.Tbh I use it for short periods when my Epiphytes, newly planted invitro plants and mosses need a boost in my tanks too but is a not cheapest product
Regards Konstantin

 

[Wookii]

Hi there
The medium seems a little too wet for my liking.
Sorry to hear about the C parva.
It might have been a weak plant that failed to adapt.Do try another batch tho.
I have only used Osmocote slow release granules as fertilizer as I always keep my propagators drier and it released nutrients gradually rather than dumping them rapidly
Sth else I use is Canna Rhyzotonic. It really give the plants a boost to develop strong root systems.Tbh I use it for short periods when my Epiphytes, newly planted invitro plants and mosses need a boost in my tanks too but is a not cheapest product
Regards Konstantin

Thanks @Konsa - yes even though the water level only covers the bottom 5-10mm of the the planting cubes, they seem to wick up water like a sponge and stay really sodden. I am half debating swapping them all out for the Seramis which still manages to wick the water too, but remains much less water logged ofcourse.

I do have a bottle of Rhyzotonic, and I hadn’t though to use it, thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Ehcosbie]

Do you have any updates? Interested to see how the buce are doing.

 

[Wookii]

Do you have any updates? Interested to see how the buce are doing.

I completely forgot to take a photo on Sunday, time ran away with me. This is as it stands mid-week:



I did have some issues keeping the humidity high enough - I suspect because the cables for the pump, temp sensor and mister were all running underneath the rim of the lid in the rear left corner, it was causing too large an air gap - the X-Willisii on that side closest have suffers as a result, where as the ones on the other side are doing well. So I’ve now routed all the cables through the vents in the lid.

The Buce appear to be pushing out new leaves, which is good.

The anubias I added in have largely turned to mush - it appears they don’t like going from submerged to emersed.

I’ve gradually transitioned from the planting cubes to Seramis for all but six plants, so they are less water logged and to get more air to the roots as suggested in this thread. Some of the Albida Browns haven’t responded too well to the move, so I’ll have to see if they bounce back,

I removed all of the Crypt Parva that had melted. I tried to replace it first with an order from Aqua Essentials which I had to send back as the plants were so pitifully small they equated to about £1 a leaf. Then I visited Pro Shrimp and their plants weren’t in very good shape (given the state of many of the potted plants, and the way they store them it’s a wonder they get any deliveries accepted!). Eventually I got a tiny invitro pot from eBay - so I’ve planted those tonight - they’re tiny, so I’m not holding my breath.

I added some more Nurii and Albida Brown too to fill in the gaps.

All the existing plants seem to be growing, albeit slowly, and I’m seeing new leaves on most. It was interesting breaking the plants out of the growing cubes to change to Seramis - most of them has already pushed roots out the bottom of the cubes!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

It was interesting breaking the plants out of the growing cubes to change to Seramis - most of them has already pushed roots out the bottom of the cubes!

Sounds like the growing cubes are fine as a medium, even if they look a bit scuzzy.

cheers Darrel

 

[Wookii]

Hi all,

Sounds like the growing cubes are fine as a medium, even if they look a bit scuzzy.

cheers Darrel

Yeah, it was a bit of a catch 22 taking them out. They were just very efficient at soaking up the water, so they always stayed vary saturated. I might keep the four remaining Wendtii Affinis Red’s in them, so I can compare the two mediums.

In hindsight I probably should have tried not be too smart, and just gone with rockwool. I guess there is a good reason why all the big boys use it. I’ll give it a go in the next round.

 

[JacksonL]

Very interesting setup! Following along

 

[Wookii]

Hi Wooki
I use High K as a foliar feed....don't exceed the recommended grams per litre!
I use 0.5 grams per 2 Litre!
Ive never had much success with the more difficult Invitro Crypts....especially Nurii.....I would make up a mix of gravel and crushed lava rock for the Parva media!
😉

The Solufeed High-K arrived - often would you suggest I apply it as a foliage feed?

 

[greenbliss]

The Solufeed High-K arrived - often would you suggest I apply it as a foliage feed

I would say that just for the health of the Bucephalandra and Cryptocoryne, it might be worth keeping the fertilisation on the low side. They tend to come from more nutrient poor areas and don't need much. I sometimes abandon my setups for months and although the plants maybe grow a bit slower, they don't really get stunted or discoloured. I also believe the ceramis is a clay based media so that should help quite a lot.

BUT people do keep more common species in EI fertilised tanks without encountering too many problems in terms of plant health. That being said, more uncommon species will most likely be a lot more sensitive to high amounts of fertiliser.

 

[Wookii]

Right so here is the 1 month update:



Most plants are actively growing and putting out new leaves, just at different rates, which is to be expected. As you can see from the image, those plants I left in the original Ez-Plug planting cubes are doing markedly better than those in the Seramis. So I’m not convinced the Seramis is the best way forward.
The main issue I’m having now is an algae outbreak. Most of the substrates are getting covered is a slime algae of some sort, and it’s starting to get onto some of the leaves:



I’m going to guess it’s because the substrate is too wet perhaps? However I’m not too sure how to tackle it.

I have ordered a load of rockwool planting cubes, so I’m not sure if I should remove all the plants, clean off all the algae, and replant in the rockwool?

Open to ideas and suggestions.

 

[Hufsa]

The main issue I’m having now is an algae outbreak. Most of the substrates are getting covered is a slime algae of some sort, and it’s starting to get onto some of the leaves:

I’m going to guess it’s because the substrate is too wet perhaps? However I’m not too sure how to tackle it.

Ive been researching crypts lately and they often grow them emersed a lot like you do. They say you must use moss around the crypt, the moss will somehow outcompete or make the conditions unsuitable for the slime and that keeps everything nice and tidy. I think just about any "normal" moss will do, I'd go for an aquarium species, that way you know it will tolerate the same conditions as the plants. Taxiphyllum or Vesicularia species for instance.
I dont have any personal experience with it but it seems to be the standard way, I would give it a go

 

[Ehcosbie]

Interesting looking at the tray as a whole, the areas affected by algae looks like it is circular in shape and emanates from the mister in the centre. If this is the case ( hard to tell from a phot viewed on a phone), would an adjustment to the mister be needed, be it position/ height or frequency of misting? Just a thought, anyway.

 

[Konsa]

Hi
I used to get similar slime in my setup.
Best course of action is to dry the substrate in order to keep it check.
Tbh I never had any standing water at all in my setup.I rarely misted and any water in the undertray was discarded after misting. Think in the lines of damp house plant pot consistency. Even if the top dries out a little is not a biggie ,as long there is moisture in lower levels it will keep the humidity high enough .
Also why not try granulated fertilizer in the medium as nutrient rich spray is probably helping the algae development.
Can't comment on the rock wool as I always used potting compost in my setups.
Regards Konstantin

 

[Wookii]

Ive been researching crypts lately and they often grow them emersed a lot like you do. They say you must use moss around the crypt, the moss will somehow outcompete or make the conditions unsuitable for the slime and that keeps everything nice and tidy. I think just about any "normal" moss will do, I'd go for an aquarium species, that way you know it will tolerate the same conditions as the plants. Taxiphyllum or Vesicularia species for instance.
I dont have any personal experience with it but it seems to be the standard way, I would give it a go

Not come across the moss usage before - I don't think the commercial growers use it, though they do all grow them emersed as you say. Do you have any links to where you've seen it - I've certainly got plenty I could use.

 

[Hufsa]

Not come across the moss usage before - I don't think the commercial growers use it, though they do all grow them emersed as you say. Do you have any links to where you've seen it - I've certainly got plenty I could use.

I was all over the internet and dont remember all of it, but I did a quick search and one of the places I saw it mentioned was at the collector site called Bolbi
For "science" you could do a couple of pots with moss and a couple with other methods?
It doesnt seem like everyone uses it, I think there is something to the factor of how rich spray one uses as well.

 

[Ehcosbie]

Interesting looking at the tray as a whole, the areas affected by algae looks like it is circular in shape and emanates from the mister in the centre. If this is the case ( hard to tell from a phot viewed on a phone), would an adjustment to the mister be needed, be it position/ height or frequency of misting? Just a thought, anyway.

As light can be a cause of algae, does the mist intensify the light? If so, would only misting when lights are out help?

Probably worth trying some form of adjustment to see if it has an impact before spending money on alternatives, just a thought.