Growing stem plants without substrate . . .

[Jayefc1]

Its is also.posible to grow a carpet plant such as HC or mc without soil as long as the substrate can allow the roots to hold
There is soil in the back for the stems but none at the front where the HC was pushed between the rocks and it spread to almost a full carpet

 

[tiger15]

Some plants such as cryptocoryne that are believed to be heavy root feeders are now available as plants on lava rock which then feed primarily from the water column. Monte Carlo is often used on hardscape now and also does very well. I think plants adapt, so if you can find a way to position it in the scape you don’t need a substrate, just good water column fertilisation.

Do not assume heavy rooters mean heavy root feeder. Rosette plants such as Crypt and sword have heavy roots because they thrive in streams that are subject to periodic fast current and must develop strong roots to anchor into steam beds.

Do you have links to non epiphytes grown in larva rock. I like to find out how they make them stick.

I know Tropica sell plants grown in coconut fiber that can be planted without removal. If you find crevices to insert these plants, they are technically substrate free and will likely work with rosettes, not with stems though because stems need to be periodically replanted to reduce height and remove bare bottoms.

 

[Wookii]

Does anyone have any thoughts on the long term use of the typical leaded plant weights for securing stems? i.e. is there any potential risk of lead leaching into the water column, particularly in the soft slightly acid water of a CO2 injected aquarium? (Assuming the weights are actually lead, and not some alternative alloy).

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

and not some alternative alloy

They aren't lead (Pb), apparently they are a magnesium/zinc alloy.

any thoughts on the long term use of the typical leaded plant weights for securing stems?

I think they will look pretty ugly. I'm not personally a great fan of bare bottom tanks, and I would go for a shallow layer of cosmetic sand.

cheers Darrel

 

[Ady34]

Do not assume heavy rooters mean heavy root feeder. Rosette plants such as Crypt and sword have heavy roots because they thrive in streams that are subject to periodic fast current and must develop strong roots to anchor into steam beds.

Do you have links to non epiphytes grown in larva rock. I like to find out how they make them stick.

I know Tropica sell plants grown in coconut fiber that can be planted without removal. If you find crevices to insert these plants, they are technically substrate free and will likely work with rosettes, not with stems though because stems need to be periodically replanted to reduce height and remove bare bottoms.

Yep, that’s the point I was making, seems most plants can uptake from the water column happily 🙂
Tropica grow epiphytes and crypts on lava rock:
https://tropica.com/en/plants/aquadecor/decorrock/👍🏻

 

[Wookii]

Hi all, They aren't lead (Pb), apparently they are a magnesium/zinc alloy.

Thanks Darrel, I suspected that might be the case as true lead is a big 'no-no' these days, similar to fishing shot.

I think they will look pretty ugly. I'm not personally a great fan of bare bottom tanks, and I would go for a shallow layer of cosmetic sand.

cheers Darrel

Just to clarify, I don't intend for the weights to be visible. Nor would the bottom of the tank be bare - it would be completely covered in hardscape - rocks, wood, and a sprinkling of cosmetic sand around the edges, It's just that there would be no soil or gravel, the stem would be secured by some other means. See @Ady34 initial hardscape to see what I mean:



Imagine something similar to that covered in epiphytes and mosses, with bunches of stems positioned in between. In fact you don't really need to imagine it, as that is exactly what Ady has done with the tank (see the image in my first post). I'm considering a similar technical approach, though of course a different layout.

I may still have soil, in some specific limited locations, but I'm exploring the possibility of eliminating it completely.

 

[Wookii]

Do you have links to non epiphytes grown in larva rock. I like to find out how they make them stick.

Yep, that’s the point I was making, seems most plants can uptake from the water column happily 🙂
Tropica grow epiphytes and crypts on lava rock:
https://tropica.com/en/plants/aquadecor/decorrock/👍🏻

I have some Schismatoglottis prietoi in my tank. Though not a crypt, is has a similar root structure - I have it growing equally well both in the soil, and on hardscape. To attach to hardscape I simply cut back the roots, and glued in place. it shot roots out and attached itself all over, to the point that it was actually a complete bugger to remove.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Nor would the bottom of the tank be bare - it would be completely covered in hardscape - rocks, wood, and a sprinkling of cosmetic sand around the edges, It's just that there would be no soil or gravel, the stem would be secured by some other means.

I think that should be fine. I'd probably go for @Ady34's rock method, or @Filip Krupa's mesh, very lightly buried.

I simply cut back the roots, and glued in place. it shot roots out and attached itself all over, to the point that it was actually a complete bugger to remove.

and the bits removed were very kindly sent to me, and are <"still floating around the tank quite happily">.

cheers Darrel

 

[tiger15]

Yep, that’s the point I was making, seems most plants can uptake from the water column happily 🙂
Tropica grow epiphytes and crypts on lava rock:
https://tropica.com/en/plants/aquadecor/decorrock/👍🏻

Not just most but all aquatic plants can uptake nutrients entirely from the water column. This physiological difference distinguishes true aquatic plants from terrestrial marshy plants in that the latter cannot and will die fully submerged. Many Dutch planters rely on EI water column dosing, inert gravel to anchor plants, and avoid soil completely as replanting stems often in soil is messy. My cichlid planted tanks have nearly no substrate except for a thin layer of gravel to cover the bottom reflection.

Tropica sell only one Crypt BeckettII Petchii and one stem Pogostemon helferi that are adapted to attachment to larva rock and by no means universal for other stems and rosettes.

I think lead weight may be the solution to OP quest for truly substrate free stems. It is relatively easy to prune and replant stems in lead weight and find places to high the lead. Lead is not lead but magnesium zinc alloy. Zinc is essential plant nutrient in trace quantity but can be slightly toxic to fish and very toxic to shrimp at higher concentrations. I used a few lead to tie my stems in gravel filled hydroponic pots but the quantity I use is so small that I have not observed adverse effect on my fish.

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @dw1305

Just did a double-take when reading through this thread and stumbled on the words:

...bare bottom...

JPC