TomatoandEgg
Member
I guess when 99% of what we normally see are nano varieties then fish of this size can look cramped in a tank. But they’re not.
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Golden cobra snakehead group tank
- Thread starter TomatoandEgg
- Start date
I guess when 99% of what we normally see are nano varieties then fish of this size can look cramped in a tank. But they’re not.
Edvet
Member
I tend to disagree. Apart from the amount of pollution these large animals can produce ( which can be countered by a large and perfectly functioning filtration) the size of the enclosure ( tank in this case) has an effect on their natural behaviour. I will agree the vision of that can be different in different parts of the world, but having large animals in small enclosures is frowned upon in the western hemisphere.
After my last post in this topic i didn't really open Ukaps for a few weeks.
I was a bit busy but the main reason was the discussion above.
You see, I descided a few years ago not to watch the news anymore because i really hate animal abuse, the way we are f*ing up nature, the way we treat animals and our environment,... so in order to avoid situations where animal abuse is considered "normal",to ignore hunters, poachers and other misfits... and to escape the b-blahblahblahblah of politicians i just stopped watching news, facebook and such completely. That was a relief!
The other option was to be in a constant state of "rage and disappointment" so in order to save myself i just looked away, at least i tried to.
But this evasion is only efficient as long as the ignored doesn't come and slap me in the face to much (as you can imagine).
When i visit a site like Ukaps i assume to be around people that qualify as animal/nature lovers. So it hurts even more when i stumble upon animal cruelty on a site like this.
You know, I can give my point of view, like i did in the above, but it didn't make me a happy camper. It made my head turn and twist in unbelieve for some days, giving me an allround unhappy feeling...
The discussion above, albeit respectfull, argumented (and entertaining), still left me feeling a bit confused, made me think what was the best way for me to hande this without getting depressed.
So i guessed it would be better for my mental health and my allround state of mind to just ignore threads like this from now on... 😉
i honestly wasn't planning on reacting here anymore when i reopened the site yesterday morning...
But.... The first thing i saw in the "recent posts" (must be a coincidence) is your latest reaction. (the one where you add a bigger snakehead!)
Cou... cou... could ... couldn't maintain ignore-mode...
T t t t t t tried but failed..
I really tried, i typed this yesterday but then decided not to post it. I came back today and again first thing i see was your latest post "they are not cramped"
LOL
What happened next was a classic case of refall after the rehab...
One puff and i was on the wagon again!
It's just stronger then myself, resistance is futile....
So here i go, one last time. (i hope) 😛
Maybe i'll kick you some sort of a conscience during my last crusade!
Who knows... It's worth the try anyhow...
We'll team up and form a much needed international animal rescue-squad. But clearly you are not in that place yet.... On the contrary 🙁
For now: You are lucky you are in Malaysia and i'm not because otherwise your tank would be fishless by tonight. 😵
If I could find a local animal lover I would gladly pay him good money (and i don't own a lot of money but that wouldn't stop me) just to rescue those fish
😉 hehe...
Not only does it look terribly overstocked (with six of those monsters in it) but introducing a new, even bigger one....?
That is really a special kind of special to me.
Baffling (well almost, it didn't stop me...)
But again: why add another one?
To be sure you have a male? Even specialists told you to wait it out...
But no no no, you'll have it your way so you add another, bigger, one rightaway (maybe to make them fight a bit sooner?)
Nice plan! Seriously: what are the odds you having 6 females? Did you do the math? hahaha, i suspect not
But the tragedy is that exactely this kind of behaviour makes me resent the human nature! ( as in: "What? Why? How? Wtf? ....")
Watching your video brings tears to my eyes! Not even kidding here!
Sadness, like a dark cloud, overwhelms my thoughts and covers all i see in a red hue: It is like there is a transparent bloody film over my eyelids that makes the world look red, violent and hostile!
My eyes turn all black, my theeth grow longer and sharper and my neck starts to twist: A beast is born! And it's watching your every move!
And i was full of hope when i read this before:
And for it to grow it first needs to exist.
I can only hope waking up some of your empathy by typing these words.
I really appreciate your discussion above and you seem to be a reasonable person.
But sadly i have to add that i hate your current way of keeping animals. Someone should free those fish and confisquate your tank until you are a mature person...(whenever that will be...)
I really wonder what exactely is "interesting" about an overcrowded tank with big fish uprooting the delicate planting and waiting for the ideal time to start killing eachother.
Meh,
, i don't seem to get it.
What do you mean, they are not cramped?
Sorry mate, but this clearly is animal abuse, no matter what you tell yourself! Just look with an open mind at your tank.
If you can't see that you must have an eyecondition or something like that....
I was a bit busy but the main reason was the discussion above.
You see, I descided a few years ago not to watch the news anymore because i really hate animal abuse, the way we are f*ing up nature, the way we treat animals and our environment,... so in order to avoid situations where animal abuse is considered "normal",to ignore hunters, poachers and other misfits... and to escape the b-blahblahblahblah of politicians i just stopped watching news, facebook and such completely. That was a relief!
The other option was to be in a constant state of "rage and disappointment" so in order to save myself i just looked away, at least i tried to.
But this evasion is only efficient as long as the ignored doesn't come and slap me in the face to much (as you can imagine).
When i visit a site like Ukaps i assume to be around people that qualify as animal/nature lovers. So it hurts even more when i stumble upon animal cruelty on a site like this.
You know, I can give my point of view, like i did in the above, but it didn't make me a happy camper. It made my head turn and twist in unbelieve for some days, giving me an allround unhappy feeling...
The discussion above, albeit respectfull, argumented (and entertaining), still left me feeling a bit confused, made me think what was the best way for me to hande this without getting depressed.
So i guessed it would be better for my mental health and my allround state of mind to just ignore threads like this from now on... 😉
i honestly wasn't planning on reacting here anymore when i reopened the site yesterday morning...
But.... The first thing i saw in the "recent posts" (must be a coincidence) is your latest reaction. (the one where you add a bigger snakehead!)
Cou... cou... could ... couldn't maintain ignore-mode...
T t t t t t tried but failed..
I really tried, i typed this yesterday but then decided not to post it. I came back today and again first thing i see was your latest post "they are not cramped"
LOL
What happened next was a classic case of refall after the rehab...
One puff and i was on the wagon again!
It's just stronger then myself, resistance is futile....
So here i go, one last time. (i hope) 😛
Maybe i'll kick you some sort of a conscience during my last crusade!
Who knows... It's worth the try anyhow...
Be sure to give me a shout when (or "if") you arrive at that stage in life.
We'll team up and form a much needed international animal rescue-squad. But clearly you are not in that place yet.... On the contrary 🙁
For now: You are lucky you are in Malaysia and i'm not because otherwise your tank would be fishless by tonight. 😵
If I could find a local animal lover I would gladly pay him good money (and i don't own a lot of money but that wouldn't stop me) just to rescue those fish
😉 hehe...Not only does it look terribly overstocked (with six of those monsters in it) but introducing a new, even bigger one....?
That is really a special kind of special to me.
Baffling (well almost, it didn't stop me...)But again: why add another one?
To be sure you have a male? Even specialists told you to wait it out...
But no no no, you'll have it your way so you add another, bigger, one rightaway (maybe to make them fight a bit sooner?)
Nice plan! Seriously: what are the odds you having 6 females? Did you do the math? hahaha, i suspect not
But the tragedy is that exactely this kind of behaviour makes me resent the human nature! ( as in: "What? Why? How? Wtf? ....")
Watching your video brings tears to my eyes! Not even kidding here!
Sadness, like a dark cloud, overwhelms my thoughts and covers all i see in a red hue: It is like there is a transparent bloody film over my eyelids that makes the world look red, violent and hostile!
My eyes turn all black, my theeth grow longer and sharper and my neck starts to twist: A beast is born! And it's watching your every move!
And i was full of hope when i read this before:
Honestly: you still have got a lot of maturing to do appearently, i am searching your empathetic side 🙁 in vain...
And for it to grow it first needs to exist.
I can only hope waking up some of your empathy by typing these words.
I really appreciate your discussion above and you seem to be a reasonable person.
But sadly i have to add that i hate your current way of keeping animals. Someone should free those fish and confisquate your tank until you are a mature person...(whenever that will be...)
I really wonder what exactely is "interesting" about an overcrowded tank with big fish uprooting the delicate planting and waiting for the ideal time to start killing eachother.
Meh,
, i don't seem to get it.What do you mean, they are not cramped?
Sorry mate, but this clearly is animal abuse, no matter what you tell yourself! Just look with an open mind at your tank.
If you can't see that you must have an eyecondition or something like that....
1
14548
Guest
Couldn't agree more...well if you only find big fishes 'interesting' then give them the place they deserve or simply get some smaller fishes that are 'interesting' (hate this word, every animal is 'interesting' IMO), there is plenty OK for your tank;
Gourami, ramirezi, stiphodon, mid sized tetra, apistogramma...and so on, even betta are interesting to watch and very smart fishes.
Please stop playing with nature
Gourami, ramirezi, stiphodon, mid sized tetra, apistogramma...and so on, even betta are interesting to watch and very smart fishes.
Please stop playing with nature
roadmaster
Member
I might leave the further discussion on ethic's or cruelty, along with threat's, to those who have never committed such crime's .(leave's very few me thinks)
If I were set on the snakehead's ,I might see if I could source Channa Bleheri which do not grow nearly as large.
At least until such time as I could provide larger tank for larger fishes I might like to keep.
If larger tank is far on the horizon,,then single specimen would be my aim in present tank.
Many are those who promote cruelty with words alone.
If I were set on the snakehead's ,I might see if I could source Channa Bleheri which do not grow nearly as large.
At least until such time as I could provide larger tank for larger fishes I might like to keep.
If larger tank is far on the horizon,,then single specimen would be my aim in present tank.
Many are those who promote cruelty with words alone.
TomatoandEgg
Member
Hi Hades, sorry for upsetting you further, i'll not update my journal until they move out of their current tank. 250uk gal hopefully for 2 fish. Also yes i did the math but i also had a few people tell me my fish were all female. here its not uncommon for people to buy all the male stock leaving nothing but less attractive females.
roadmaster dont worry hades isn't threatning hes a good contributor in this thread he's just giving me **** for my asian sardine tank its fine. as i touched upon earlier in the thread, i dont see the point in weighty discussion over the ethics of my tank. whats objectively cruel to one person is totally fine for another. i think my tank is just as cruel housing 30 neons as it is housing 7 juvinile snakeheads. They can both swim freely and yet they're all living in shamefully small space compared to the wild. Anyway since it's getting a negative reception i shan't continue to update aside letting hades know they've moved on to a better place😛
roadmaster dont worry hades isn't threatning hes a good contributor in this thread he's just giving me **** for my asian sardine tank its fine. as i touched upon earlier in the thread, i dont see the point in weighty discussion over the ethics of my tank. whats objectively cruel to one person is totally fine for another. i think my tank is just as cruel housing 30 neons as it is housing 7 juvinile snakeheads. They can both swim freely and yet they're all living in shamefully small space compared to the wild. Anyway since it's getting a negative reception i shan't continue to update aside letting hades know they've moved on to a better place😛
LoL
Thanks but really: that is not the intention at all, it's like I said: I have the choice to ignore whatever i cannot cope with so no worries about my sensitive side...
I mean: it's up to me to decide to look at it or not so i don't want to scare you away. That's no solution.
Please keep the updates coming, I won't be upset , i promise (I'll try anyway
).I'll even be feeling guility if you stop posting because of my ranting..
And I am sure you know by now i like to make a point by exaggerating a bit when i am on a roll! 😉
Hehe, glad you still see it in the right perspective! (And like you say: i am not a threath, i am too far from Malaysia anyway! 😀...)
It's like you say: I'm just giving you some *** for your "quote" asian sardine tank (LoL, i didn't say that!), hoping to touch your sensitive side, but it's nothing personal. I could just stfu but then agian... you might only get kudos if we all act like that...
So, even if you don't agree with my statements (or I don't agree with yours) that still doesn't mean that we cannot share our thoughts. Who knows, we might come to a solution in the end.
Keep'em coming, mate! Seriously...
But i have to admit i look forward to the "better place" moment... 🙂
TomatoandEgg
Member
appreciate the kind words mate! i shall try to hurry along the new tank
Petra R
Member
together with 5 llamas...
Petra R
Member
I understand that you need to tell yourself this to carry on keeping them this way, and still sleep at night, but really, they are cramped. They can not escape aggressors, they have no room to swim, they have no room to behave even borderline naturally.
The ability to keep them alive is not a sign that the animal's needs are met. It just speaks to the ability of the animal toi adapt to the conditions and carry on living at the same time.
I can keep a llama alive in my bathroom. That does not make my bathroom a suitable environment for a llama and hence no llamas live in my bathroom.
sonicninja
Member
- Joined
- 15 Dec 2013
- Messages
- 307
*moves all 6 llamas out of his bathroom*
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I'd like to see these fish in a larger tank as well but they also look to be living in rather decent conditions if you look at how these fish are commonly maintained
I suspect that TandE gets disapproval from both sides
I don't need to travel to Asia to see monsterfish kept in small tanks, I can just walk into local aquarium shops (& homes), especially the popular chain store that kept true sharks in large aquaria that were nonetheless unimaginably small given the potential size of these sharks - which were fed minimal amounts of food for public display once a week & subsequently remained very small (relatively) at 3-4 years of age ... at which point no one could ignore the disparity bewteeen tank size & fish size & the sharks would be "rehomed" & new babies back in place for the next cycle
(& no, the local animal cruelty prevention society had NO interest)
The aquarium trade continues to sell baby "iridescent sharks" for home aquaria - they still appear on almost every wholesaler list, despite their complete unsuitability & are a "staple fish" in the BIg Box shops
Even more sadly, these are far from the only "unsuited to home aquaria" fish that are sold in the many thousands each year
I'm far happier to have TomatoandEgg here where we can (hopefully) subvert him 😉
Maybe I just don't know snakeheads well enough, but theses fish look pretty "happy"
- I've seen small tetras etc kept in stunning planted tanks where the CO2 levels are so "optimized" that normally active shoaling fish are barely moving ...
As for 6 fish being all female, I bought a group of 27 juvenile Sphaerichthys vaillanti and ended up with 25 females & 2 males ... it was not a situation I'd like to repeat 🙁
I suspect that TandE gets disapproval from both sides
I don't need to travel to Asia to see monsterfish kept in small tanks, I can just walk into local aquarium shops (& homes), especially the popular chain store that kept true sharks in large aquaria that were nonetheless unimaginably small given the potential size of these sharks - which were fed minimal amounts of food for public display once a week & subsequently remained very small (relatively) at 3-4 years of age ... at which point no one could ignore the disparity bewteeen tank size & fish size & the sharks would be "rehomed" & new babies back in place for the next cycle
(& no, the local animal cruelty prevention society had NO interest)
The aquarium trade continues to sell baby "iridescent sharks" for home aquaria - they still appear on almost every wholesaler list, despite their complete unsuitability & are a "staple fish" in the BIg Box shops
Even more sadly, these are far from the only "unsuited to home aquaria" fish that are sold in the many thousands each year
I'm far happier to have TomatoandEgg here where we can (hopefully) subvert him 😉
Maybe I just don't know snakeheads well enough, but theses fish look pretty "happy"
- I've seen small tetras etc kept in stunning planted tanks where the CO2 levels are so "optimized" that normally active shoaling fish are barely moving ...
As for 6 fish being all female, I bought a group of 27 juvenile Sphaerichthys vaillanti and ended up with 25 females & 2 males ... it was not a situation I'd like to repeat 🙁
sciencefiction
Member
- Joined
- 26 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 3,403
I am of the same opinion. Happy fish have a certain way of behaving and you can also always tell by the colour and shape of the fish.
As already mentioned, the fish will need larger quarters in time. If anyone is forgetting, the most fish the OP is hoping to keep long term out of these is a pair...
The "western hemisphere" is guilty of popularizing "nano" fish in nano tanks. Look around...No one should keep fish in nano tanks......I am also personally critical of the OP's choice of fish to tank size but I come from a point of view of a person that keeps nano fish in a tank several times bigger than these snake heads are having right now. I am afraid I can't say the same for some posters on here. I will not point fingers...🙂
Edvet
Member
I was talking more about animal keepers like zoos. There still is a lot of animal abuse in the western hemisphere.
TomatoandEgg
Member
the fish have over the course of the past 2 months settled into the tank and established a clear hierarchy with the new male patrolling the foreground and everyone else lurking in the undergrowth behind.
that is, until what i suspect is the biggest female, somehow managed to get on his good side and is now allowed to hang out in front with him.
i'm keeping an eye on aggression levels as i can see that both now nip at the others from time to time. they haven't begun the full on tag team carnage that is supposed to come with a bonded pair. fingers crossed romance blossoms and then i can re-home the other 5
that is, until what i suspect is the biggest female, somehow managed to get on his good side and is now allowed to hang out in front with him.
i'm keeping an eye on aggression levels as i can see that both now nip at the others from time to time. they haven't begun the full on tag team carnage that is supposed to come with a bonded pair. fingers crossed romance blossoms and then i can re-home the other 5
nel.pogorzelska
Member
Woah, looks like a tin of sardines. Beautiful sardines, but the tank looks so small.
sciencefiction
Member
- Joined
- 26 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 3,403
Yep, thanks for the update. The fish look absolutely stunning. I hope you manage to rehome the rest on time.
TomatoandEgg
Member
As promised quick update
2 dominant fish appeared to have paired in November and so began nipping the fins of the other 5. I was able to sell all 5 to someone else and the 2 settled into the winter period with no issue. Tank temp was reduced to 15c for 2 months and then the annual water change happened last week.
Water changes are notorious for causing snakeheads to fight one another. Not sure why but it causes the fish to reassess their hierarchical position in the tank which means ww3 for a few hrs. A few torn fins later both fish we’re back to cuddling each other all day.
Now to ramp up feeding and increase temp and see if they will breed in the next few months.
2 dominant fish appeared to have paired in November and so began nipping the fins of the other 5. I was able to sell all 5 to someone else and the 2 settled into the winter period with no issue. Tank temp was reduced to 15c for 2 months and then the annual water change happened last week.
Water changes are notorious for causing snakeheads to fight one another. Not sure why but it causes the fish to reassess their hierarchical position in the tank which means ww3 for a few hrs. A few torn fins later both fish we’re back to cuddling each other all day.
Now to ramp up feeding and increase temp and see if they will breed in the next few months.
1
14548
Guest
Sorry but that looks sad, like 2 males betta in a planted bowl.
