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getting worse..

dougbraz said:
In the EI Dosing Article, there is "Always separate the CSM+B from the NPK". My dumb question is: what is the CSM+B?
Thanks for the patience..
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As MichaelJ mentioned this is the equivalent of any trace mix you can find in any garden center or from any of our sponsors. In the old days we used fertilizer products that were cheap and easy to find. Plantex CSM was used quite a bit by the hydroponics folks. Later they added Boron to the mix and the product was re-labeled CSM+B. Again, trace element mixes can be found anywhere and they need not follow any particular ratios, formula, or brand name as long as the basic elements are included. Of these metals, Iron is the most prevalent. If you can find a report from your municipal water supply company you will find that most of these metals are generally already found in your tap water. Keep it simple and do not fall into the trap of micromanaging your nutrients.

Cheers,
 
ceg4048 said:
In order to serve the imperative of low cost and lesser complexity you would do well to simply buy the dry powders KNO3, K2PO4 and trace mix from any garden center such as Gardens Direct and follow the dosing instructions in the EI dosing article EI Dosing Article
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Powders ordered and on their way this week. Brilliant article of yours by the way, really full of information - thank you. Just one laaaast question (promise): is the dosage indication you gave for a 20gal tank with injected CO2 or a low-tech one? If different, how much should the dosage reduction be for a low-tech tank? Again, thank you so much for your feedback!
 
I don't know if its sill the case but it was recommended for low tech - non-co2 tank to use 1/2 EI dosing because the plant just use less and it more a thing about saving money (dosing less ferts) than anything else. Even if you dose full EI and do your weekly 50% W.C you will not reach harmful value for your livestock.

Once you get your water report, then dose accordingly I.E Your tap water contain 30 ppm of Nitrates, then you don't need to dose KNO3 and use K2SO4 instead for the potassium content etc. Anyways if you show your report here, pretty sure some will be able to help you for this. Take you report with a grain of salt, it is average values of when they did the test, It might not be the exact values it shows.

Same for livestock, if you have a lot of fish you may not need to dose nitrate and phosphate.

Just keep it simple, a little bit more is always better than not enough.

Edit : If you are still using Seachem Excel, this does augment nutrients uptake so you may need more than 1/2 EI dose anyways.
 
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Gorillastomp said:
If you are still using Seachem Excel, this does augment nutrients uptake so you may need more than 1/2 EI dose anyways.
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For the moment, yes I am, so will keep to say, 2/3 of EI dosage and see what gives.
Tap water report will take a (bureaucratic) while...ho-hum, life in the tropix..
 
dougbraz said:
Brilliant article of yours by the way, really full of information - thank you. Just one laaaast question (promise): is the dosage indication you gave for a 20gal tank with injected CO2 or a low-tech one? If different, how much should the dosage reduction be for a low-tech tank? Again, thank you so much for your feedback!
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Thanks for the kind words mate. We're thrilled that you find the information useful.
EI was developed fundamentally for high tech fuel injected tanks. The reason is that with CO2 the metabolism of the plants is increased by up to an order of magnitude (10X) compared to a low tech tank.

Barr's non-Co2 method is as follows:
Assuming 80-90% of the nutrients will come from the fish load, add once a week about 1/8 and 1/32 teaspoon of KNO3 and KH2PO4 respectively per 20 gallons.
While trace mixes can be added, one can use SeaChem Equlibrium instead if desired.
It has Fe and Mn as well as Ca/K/Mg/SO4.
Add about 1/4 teaspoon per 20 gal tank once every week or two.

As you can see, the difference is significant, but as noted, many folks use different amounts based on their own experience.

It's important to understand that low tech is not the same as adding daily amounts of Excel or equivalent. When you add liquid carbon this then counts as high tech and the dosage needs to be increased accordingly.

Gorillastomp said:
Once you get your water report, then dose accordingly I.E Your tap water contain 30 ppm of Nitrates, then you don't need to dose KNO3 and use K2SO4 instead for the potassium content etc. Anyways if you show your report here, pretty sure some will be able to help you for this. Take you report with a grain of salt, it is average values of when they did the test, It might not be the exact values it shows.
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This is not a good policy. It's OK to do this for trace element mix, simply because plants only require very small amounts, but you cannot assume what's in the water report is what's in YOUR house. The water report provides an average across the service area and you cannot tell what makes it to your pipes. Assume zero for N, P and K and adjust the dosage based on your observations and experimentation.

Cheers,
 
ceg4048 said:
This is not a good policy. It's OK to do this for trace element mix, simply because plants only require very small amounts, but you cannot assume what's in the water report is what's in YOUR house. The water report provides an average across the service area and you cannot tell what makes it to your pipes. Assume zero for N, P and K and adjust the dosage based on your observations and experimentation.
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Totally right this is why i said to take this with a grain a salt, was probably poor said on my part.
 
ceg4048 said:
It's important to understand that low tech is not the same as adding daily amounts of Excel or equivalent. When you add liquid carbon this then counts as high tech and the dosage needs to be increased accordingly.
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Following up on this bit... in terms of plant metabolism, if a low-tech tank without liquid carbon is 1x and a high-tech tank with injected CO2 gas is 10x, where on that scale does liquid carbon without CO2 injection fall?
 
ceg4048 said:
It's important to understand that low tech is not the same as adding daily amounts of Excel or equivalent. When you add liquid carbon this then counts as high tech and the dosage needs to be increased accordingly.
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Karmicnull said:
I do 20% EI for one low tech tank and 30% for the other that gets a daily double glute dose. Both have largely happy growing plants. They are growing noticeably faster in the one with glute.
Cheers,
Simon
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Maybe I'm slow on the uptake here, but just to check: if you add Excel (for example) as I do on a daily basis (thought it was good for the plants), then you have to add a HIGHER load of ferts to the tank as well (not a problem, just want to be sure)? I have no CO2 injection.

Cheers
 
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