Getting colloidal clay out of the water column

[ElleDee]

So I have a recently flooded tank (no livestock, no plants) that has an awful lot of colloidal clay suspended in the water column. I didn't even disturb the substrate when I flooded the tank - it worked its way above the cap when I got the filter running. I don't think it's a bacterial bloom because it appeared in about two hours and, more definitively, there's a ring of clay at the water line.

I've tried two rounds of Seachem Clarity and filter floss with no effect. I can add more flocculent, I can wait, I can do water changes... maybe there's something else I should try? I think the clay in the substrate will eventually aggregate on it's own, but I don't know the timeframe on that and I'm not sure about anything that makes it into the water column. I've read that it should settle eventually as bacterial colonizes the particles, but I've also seen a demonstration jar test that sat on a shelf for more than a year and still had suspended clay particles. I am also concerned that the water movement from the filter could break up any forming aggregates, but I want to keep the water oxygenated.

So what's the move here?

 

[Heelllooo]

Set up a whitewater biotope 😉

 

[Someoldguy]

Know anyone who still has a diatom filter that you could use for a day or 2?

 

[Tyko_N]

I've used clay (either mixed or pure) as a substrate quite a few times, and with plenty of algae and bacteria it tends to settle out within a week or so. If possible, you could add the gunk from a dirty filter directly to the water column, that might speed up the process. I don't think good cirkulation necessarily makes the process slower, but I would be wary of the clay particles causing abrasion on the impeller, could you run an airstone instead?

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

and with plenty of algae and bacteria it tends to settle out within a week or so. If possible, you could add the gunk from a dirty filter directly to the water column, that might speed up the process.

That is what I would try as well.

Set up a whitewater biotope

I like <"your thinking">.

cheers Darrel

 

[ElleDee]

Ok, I've seeded the water column with some filter gunk and I'll give it some more time. I've got fresh wood leaching tannins too, so there's a lot going on in the water. (I'm not trying to get rid of the tannins per se, but they are there.)

Set up a whitewater biotope 😉

Between the tannins and the clay it'd have to be more of an orangewater situation. :/

At any rate, I'll follow up when I've solved the problem or resorted to drastic measures.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Between the tannins and the clay it'd have to be more of an orangewater situation. :/

Definitely a <"real biotope">.

cheers Darrel

 

[megwattscreative]

Hi Elle, I had a similar cloudy water issue starting with Argos play sand and corbo catfish wood. Tannins and particulates galore! In the end, I had to take all the substrate out and rewash it until the water ran clear using both a bucket and a bowl in my bath 🙃. I didn't clean it initially as I live in a top floor flat so access to the garden and a hose wasn't really an option. It cleared up pretty quickly after a couple good washes and some water changes. It took a while for the corbo to sink and leach, however it did eventually. I don't know how well the bath-bucket method will work with clay, but may be worth a go?

 

[castle]

I noticed that clay does separate from water over time - if not agitated it creates one of those higher and lower density liquid viewy things - I think you just need to do a lot of water changes. Run a secondary filter stuffed with high density filter pads. Should clear up.

Just re-read you can see where clay has came through the capping layer; I would re cap asap.

Unless your substrate is just clay. Then it’s time to try again 😅

 

[ElleDee]

@megwattscreative, I rinsed all the sand and gravel before putting it in, but it's not really feasible to do with the soil - I'd lose so much material, plus it would destroy the soil structure that I have tried to maintain. I could tear the tank down and start again, but I'd rather not.

I noticed that clay does separate from water over time - if not agitated it creates one of those higher and lower density liquid viewy things - I think you just need to do a lot of water changes. Run a secondary filter stuffed with high density filter pads. Should clear up.

It has cleared some on its own, so that's promising. I have added flocculant several times and that clouds it up again, but apparently that means it's working. 🤨 I understand the principle, but apparently the flocs are still too small to be caught in the filter material I have. @Ernesto kindly pointed me to some 10 micron filter material from Sera that looks promising. It gets here today, so here's hoping!

Just re-read you can see where clay has came through the capping layer; I would re cap asap.

Unless your substrate is just clay. Then it’s time to try again 😅

I kept the cap on the thinner side thinking that it would help with oxygenation in the soil. Which, you know, maybe it has! But I have more capping material I was going to add when I planted.

It's been two weeks and hasn't cleared on its own, so the plan is to run a filter with the 10 micron media, and if that doesn't work to do a big water change and add more cap. I don't need it to be perfectly, perfectly clear right now, but need to feel like some combination of time and water changes will take care of it eventually.

 

[ElleDee]

So I started a second filter with the new filter material last night. It did not magically clear the water (alas!), but the problem is much better since I first posted.


Top: perfectly clear immediately after flooding (9/9), Middle: the peak of the cloudiness prompting me to make the original post (9/15), Bottom: current situation (9/25)

Obviously there's some residual milkiness, but I think I can move forward without tearing everything down. I'm about to go on vacation for a few days, so I'm going to remove the 10 micron media so it doesn't clog while I'm out, and next week I'll start to ready everything for planting. This is going to require moving livestock and tearing down tanks, so it's going to be quite an operation. As a part of planting it will get a full water change and more cap.

 

[simon_the_plant_nerd]

How big is that tank? Looks like a nice size.

 

[ElleDee]

How big is that tank? Looks like a nice size.

It's got 120P proportions - 120x50x50cm, 300L. It's a huge increase in size in size for me from anything I've kept before.

 

[simon_the_plant_nerd]

It's got 120P proportions - 120x50x50cm, 300L. It's a huge increase in size in size for me from anything I've kept before.

It’s over twice what I’ve got at the moment. I had a reef tank slightly narrower than that many years ago. You’ve got a good size there. Big enough for some really nice plants and lots of swimming space for some larger fish.

 

[ElleDee]

It’s over twice what I’ve got at the moment. I had a reef tank slightly narrower than that many years ago. You’ve got a good size there. Big enough for some really nice plants and lots of swimming space for some larger fish.

Yeah, getting more and larger fish was my main motivation for scaling up. I'm thinking either congo tetra or Bolivian rams as the big fish depending on the exact direction I take the tank, but I've got to get through the start up period before I start buying fish. I got to get a journal going for this project soon.

 

[Bradders]

A 4ft tank opens up a lot of options @ElleDee !

 

[MarcusA]

What is the substrate you are using?

I also notice that it seems like you are using the eheim pre filters. How do you like those? Are they easy to detach and clean? I’ve considered getting some myself.

Sorry I don’t have any great advice beyond what you’re doing. I had similar issues using calcined clay as a substrate but they went away within a week or so. I used a lot of flocculant and filter floss but I can’t say that it wouldn’t have gone away on its own.

 

[ElleDee]

What is the substrate you are using?

I also notice that it seems like you are using the eheim pre filters. How do you like those? Are they easy to detach and clean? I’ve considered getting some myself.

So far so good. It's a little fiddly to get it to line up to click back on in the tank, but I suspect I just need little more practice.

I have used just a regular sponge as a prefilter, but have had issues with it collapsing onto the intake tube over time. There's a perforated plastic barrier to stop that from happening with this design, so that shouldn't be a problem.

Sorry I don’t have any great advice beyond what you’re doing. I had similar issues using calcined clay as a substrate but they went away within a week or so. I used a lot of flocculant and filter floss but I can’t say that it wouldn’t have gone away on its own.

It's a diy dirt substrate. It has some calcined clay, but that was rinsed before adding to the mix, so I think the culprit is the soil from my yard. I have used very small amounts of it mixed in substrate before without issue, but I used a much heavier hand this time around.

 

[ElleDee]

The watched pot never boils, and I guess the cloudy water doesn't clear up until you go on vacation. I came home to 97% clear water. Check out this gross build up at the waterline though:


Gross. Better there than floating free in the water, I guess.

I won't be surprised if cloudiness is a minor problem after water changes for a while, but eventually all the tiny particles will be removed in water changes, filtered out, or become bound in the soil matrix.

 

[ian_m]

After I have messed around with substrate/plants and water stays cloudy, first insert a layer on fine floss in your filter then use this and next morning crystal clear water. Job done. (oh remove floss as get blocked easily and reduces flow).