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From Reef to Planted

It does look like I am going to have to throw a lot of my "marine thinking" out of the window, but that is not a problem.

I think I will go for the water change option of connecting to the shower hose for the time being and then think about something more permanent if the need arises.

Si, could I ask why you are changing 50% of your water twice weekly? I thought that dosing EI would only require 1 50% water change a week?

I have also made some enquiries about a local supply of akadama and should be able to get 14/16kg bags for £11.99 each just around the corner. Could I also ask how your akadama is holding up? The reason for asking is that I have just spoken to this local dealer who has had over 30 years experience in the trade and has been using Akadama for 15 years. She warned me against using it as it has a tendency to break down to a solid lump after a year. She does use it, but only as a top soil and mixes in other things. Now I realise that this is for terrestrial use, but I wouldn't have to rip everything out and start again after just a year. Is there any evidence that this stuff can be used for long term use, which I am assuming Amazonia can?
 
My Akadama seems just the same as when I put it there to be honest.
I can do just one water change but the timers are set for two and I can't be bothered to change them ,and it only seams to help , especially as it all happens when I am still asleep .

Simon
 
Andy I only just asked that same question about akadama a few days ago because I also have been using it for many years as a bonsai medium. I asked more about what happens if you disturb the aka in the tank as I assumed it would form a huge cloud of liquidised clay?
Personally I prefer the baked clay cat litter & it is cheaper too but, I am definitely considering aka as a base & topping with cat litter for a future tank.
I have also noticed that levington sell a bonsai soil that states it is also suitable for aquatic plants!
bonsai.jpg
cat.jpg
 
Always Broke said:
My Akadama seems just the same as when I put it there to be honest.
I can do just one water change but the timers are set for two and I can't be bothered to change them ,and it only seams to help , especially as it all happens when I am still asleep .

Simon
Click to expand...

That's good to know, have you moved any plants recently, planted any new ones or attempted to disturb the Akadama? The reason I ask is to know for sure whether or not it is clumping or breaking down.
 
foxfish said:
Andy I only just asked that same question about akadama a few days ago because I also have been using it for many years as a bonsai medium. I asked more about what happens if you disturb the aka in the tank as I assumed it would form a huge cloud of liquidised clay?
Personally I prefer the baked clay cat litter & it is cheaper too but, I am definitely considering aka as a base & topping with cat litter for a future tank.
I have also noticed that levington sell a bonsai soil that states it is also suitable for aquatic plants!
bonsai.jpg
cat.jpg
Click to expand...

The cat litter sounds good, but I do not like the colour of it.

With the Levington bonsai soil I assume that would have to be capped as it contains peat and bark. I have nothing against capping it, but it would be a question about what to cap it with. I don't suppose there is a more natural looking cat litter out there?
 
Andy, the cat litter & akadama are very similar colour when wet but the CL looks a bit better to me as it is not so uniform. I think they both look good.
Check out this thread viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8572&p=92994#p92994 especially the links to other similar substrates.
I have no idea about the bonsai soil, it looks the same as the levington mix I have been using for my trees for many years but, now has different packaging! i cant say if it would be of any use to us in a tank or even if it would be safe?
 
foxfish said:
Andy, the cat litter & akadama are very similar colour when wet but the CL looks a bit better to me as it is not so uniform. I think they both look good.
Check out this thread http://ukaps.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f= ... 994#p92994 especially the links to other similar substrates.
I have no idea about the bonsai soil, it looks the same as the levington mix I have been using for my trees for many years but, now has different packaging! i cant say if it would be of any use to us in a tank or even if it would be safe?
Click to expand...

Looks too good to be true!

I think I will buy a bag of both readily available types of cat litter, wet it down and see which one I prefer the look of.

Do you use yours uncapped?

Do you use anything underneath it?
 
OK, seems like a very strange thing to be doing on Christmas Eve, but I have got hold of some Tesco's cat litter and rinsed it.

I am actually quite impressed with the way it looks. I still might try the other stuff to see if there is any visual difference, but it looks like I might well save myself a fortune with using this instead of the Amazonia that I had planned on using. Thanks very much for all of the advice so far!

My brother in law is a plumber and I will be seeing him tomorrow, so I will sound him out about helping me with installing a permanent water changing system, although I know he will think I am mad ......
 
ceg4048 said:
I have no idea what "150W envirolight lamp with reflector to reverse light a section of the sump to keep up O2 levels at night." means as I'm not familiar with reef technology but pending further clarification I'd say this does not sound good. Can you clarify the basics of this technology?
Click to expand...

Currently I am running this lamp at night when the main tank lights are off in order to reduce pH swings. The idea is that the plants growing in the sump will absorb some of the CO2 being produced by the tank inhabitants and bacteria which would otherwise during the day be absorbed by photosynthetic algae. These plants also act as a form of nutrient export and provide a habitat for shrimp etc. to breed which then occasionally pass into the main tank as a food source.

I just thought that this might be a good practice to carry over to a planted tank for the same reasons, including nutrient export.
[/quote]

Oddly, this is exactly what I was planning on doing with the middle section of the sump in my new planted setup. Must be a ex-reefer legacy 🙂

I'm going for the nutrient export more than pH control or refugium, though. My tank will be low tech, so I'm planning on surface and emergent plants in the sump with reasonably high lighting. These will shade the water column to hopefully negate algae problems, and where the plants will not be reliant on CO2 in the water column the only limiting factor will be nutrients. These will be regularly harvested to keep excess nutrients to a minimum in the main tank.

It has taken a while for me to lose the reef keeping mentality (I still get urges to hook up an RO unit), but you'll get there.

Welcome, by the way!
 
Hi All,

Happy New Year! 🙂

It seems like a long time ago that I last posted and Christmas along with the forum being down have got in the way, but I feel that I have made much progress.

I have finally sold all of my remaining marine livestock and the equipment that I did not want to keep. I have also drained down and cleaned both the tank and the sump - there is still some hard to reach coralline algae within the weirs and I am not sure if I am going to try to remove this using citric acid or not, any thoughts?

I seem to be endlessly cleaning cat litter! I have cleaned 5 bags of the Tesco Value cat litter and one bag of the stuff from pets at home, which is far more coarse and will be used to create some perspective. I am still not sure if I have enough yet and I think the only way of finding out is to get it in there to have a look, although I will have to remove it again as I plan to use Osmocoat and peat moss compost underneath. I am slightly concerned about how light the cat litter is and I can see plants being easily uprooted, but I will cross that bridge when I come to it!

As part of selling off my livestock, I swapped some live rock for a large (83cm tall) CO2 cylinder which is half full. This will not fit within the cabinet, so if I used it I would have to run it from the cupboard under the stairs. I have also come across a problem finding anyone who would be willing to fill it and have approached a couple of local pubs to see if they could help. Insead, I am hoping to have made a contact who will supply me with "out of date" CO2 fire extinguishers on a regular basis for very little cost (we are talking a bottle of wine each time!). Although they are out of date to be used as a fire extinguisher, they should still be fine to use for the aquarium (I hope!).

I have ordered some Rhinox CO2 tubing, non return valves, bubble counter and two in line CO2 atomisers from an auction website and I am planning on using a 600lph Eheim pump with a 12/16mm fitting inline atomiser fed to a Two Little Fishes 150 Phosban Reactor as my CO2 injection method (http://www.twolittlefishies.com/documents/1202405781.pdf).
The output from this will be fed towards my return pump so that any undissolved CO2 will be fed directly into the tank as microbubbles, unless they dissolve on the way up there. Does this sound like a plan?

I now have my light unit and am about to order T5 tubes for it through Lampspecs; Osram Lumilux HO 880 Skywhite and Sylvania Grolux unless anyone suggests a better combination. I will be ordering three of each and plan on running a maximum of 4 at a time, with only two to start with.

Water changing - I have still not yet come up with a decent plan, but had a conversation with someone today that has got me thinking. He suggested drilling an overflow into the sump and constantly (or nightly) feeding water (RO or tap) into the tank, effectively changing water all of the time. If this would work in conjunction with EI dosing, this would be my easiest way forward and that is my main reason for posting today to get your opinions ......
 
If you can fit a top up ball valve from the mains water supply to your sump then the issue is solved!
A small pupm set to a timer & situated in the sump can then pump water to a drain.
I must admit I dont quite get your C02 diffusion method?
The simple way would be to fit an in line atomiser from the sump return?
 
foxfish said:
If you can fit a top up ball valve from the mains water supply to your sump then the issue is solved!
A small pupm set to a timer & situated in the sump can then pump water to a drain.
Click to expand...

Do you mean set up a small daily water change? If you do, I could see that working as I wouldn't have to worry about heating the water and if it were say 10%, the cold water going directly in shouldn't have too much of a drastic effect on the overall temperature.

I like the idea of a ball valve as I might be able to install that without drilling the sump.

This wasn't what I was thinking though. I was actually thinking of running water through an RO unit which would have a pre filter and carbon block, but have the DI removed (yes, I know I haven't quite got over not using RO and it would give me a greater scope with the types of fish I could keep ie. discus!). This would run continuously into the tank and the water it displaced would have to run to a drain.

foxfish said:
I must admit I dont quite get your C02 diffusion method?
The simple way would be to fit an in line atomiser from the sump return?
Click to expand...

I had originally wanted to do just that, but I am using 19/27mm hose on my return pump (Eheim compact 5000) and haven't been able to find an inline atomiser that would fit. The largest fitting that I have found is 16/22mm and the other is 12/16mm, both of which I have ordered.

One reason for using my suggested method is that I do not want to restrict flow from my return as this gives me great circulation within the tank. Another is that I want to dissolve as much of the CO2 as possible before it reaches the tank as I do not want to have microbubbles visible.

The phosban reactor, if used in reverse, is very similar to the AM 1000 in that water enters a large chamber and bubbles flow upwards against the flow of water giving the CO2 more time to dissolve. If they do not dissolve entirely, I want to give them another chance by directing them towards the intake of my return pump so they can be chopped up again by the impellor, then travel through around 1m of pipe before they enter the main tank. Hopefully at this stage there will be no bubbles at all as they will have all dissolved!

Hopefully that makes more sense? Does that sound sensible?

Incidentally, I have been reading a number of posts on the planted tank about microbubbles churned out by reactors producing great growth and pearling, but my head began to hurt after so much reading and I was getting put off by the back biting. Are you aware if this was ever proven?

Which atomiser(s) do you use and do you get complete dissolving of CO2 before it reaches your tank?
 
andyseatrout said:
This wasn't what I was thinking though. I was actually thinking of running water through an RO unit which would have a pre filter and carbon block, but have the DI removed (yes, I know I haven't quite got over not using RO and it would give me a greater scope with the types of fish I could keep ie. discus!). This would run continuously into the tank and the water it displaced would have to run to a drain.
Click to expand...

Problem I can see with this is that you would end up with a higher and higher RO content in the tank without re-mineralising it. Especially with adding CO2, this is asking for a pH crash...

I do like the idea, though... May get the sump in my new tank drilled and add a run off to waste... Will make water changes even easier...
 
Kosh42-EFG said:
[Problem I can see with this is that you would end up with a higher and higher RO content in the tank without re-mineralising it. Especially with adding CO2, this is asking for a pH crash...

I do like the idea, though... May get the sump in my new tank drilled and add a run off to waste... Will make water changes even easier...
Click to expand...

That might well be a fly in the ointment then, although I don't know anything about remineralising RO. Couldn't the pH (or more correctly the KH) be kept in check by the addition of sodium bicarbonate solution?

What exactly does remineralising add to the RO water that is used by fish or plants that cannot be obtained through feeding?
 
Ph swings/drops from the addition of co2 have no relevence , the old "ph crash" was from the KH dropping , whic caused the ph to drop , with ph being the smoking gun 🙂 My tapwater here has a kh of <2 and my tank runs at a ph of less then 5 with co2 on (cant say exactly what it is because my test kit only goes to 5 😛)

As far as re-mineralising your RO you`ll want magnisium+calcium and other small trace elements that the plants will need , but there are plenty of commercial products you can use to do this , seachem equlibrium being one of them , and you could just add a small amount at a regular interval (say 3x a week ) to make sure you don`t run out of anything .
 
Burnleygaz said:
Ph swings/drops from the addition of co2 have no relevence , the old "ph crash" was from the KH dropping , whic caused the ph to drop , with ph being the smoking gun 🙂 My tapwater here has a kh of <2 and my tank runs at a ph of less then 5 with co2 on (cant say exactly what it is because my test kit only goes to 5 😛)

As far as re-mineralising your RO you`ll want magnisium+calcium and other small trace elements that the plants will need , but there are plenty of commercial products you can use to do this , seachem equlibrium being one of them , and you could just add a small amount at a regular interval (say 3x a week ) to make sure you don`t run out of anything .
Click to expand...

Thanks for this - keeps the idea alive for the time being then!

Off to the water chemistry section to do a little more reading, especially about DIY remineralising ......
 
I use a small power head to pump tank water from my sump to waste, I leave the main pump running, so you dont want to pump out faster that the ball valve can supply.
The problem is it is difficult to calculate the amount of water that is changed due to the mixing of tank water & top up water at the same time as the water is being pumped out.
However I carry out daily water changes & I know that 18 gals of tap water goes in to the sump, I figure that is at least 15% daily.
Having said all that - I actually enjoy the manual water change approach as it give me a chance to carry out other maintenance like glass cleaning & plant trimming. I like to get my hands in the tank while the water level is lowered & I just like the close contact you get from a manual water change, so, in fact I don't use my auto system anymore unless I am going on holiday.
 
Thanks for that information. I think I will have to make smaller water changes more often as a 50% water change on 580 litres in one go would not be possible.

Please could you let me know if you think my CO2 injection method will work and provide feedback on the atomiser(s) that you use? I am particularly interested in whether or not you get total dissolving or microbubbles.
 
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