Flow, co2 and heating in a 400l tank

[Conger]

Hi

First post here, please be kind.

I've been lurking for some time and have been taking on board all the advice, particularly from Clive.

I'm expecting to get back into the game with a tank around the 400 litre size, either 4 or 5 ft, and on the basis that I will be using co2, to have to use two filters, maybe 2x eheim 2080s or similar. I'm guessing the best flow round the tank will be achieved with two spray bars, one for each filter on each half of the tank.

My question relates to heating and co2 input. I'm envisaging hydor inline heaters and UP atomisers for the co2. Should I have these on each filter for even distribution, splitting the co2 via a t-piece to atomisers on each line, or will I get the right end result by only putting them on one filter and relying on gradients to sort themselves out?

I suspect the former, but that's more expensive and potentially overcomplicating it? Is it also too much to expect that two feeds from one co2 bottle will be equal in strength etc?

Thanks

 

[Alastair]

Hi conger, your better option would be to go for both diffuser and heater inline on each but if you cant afford the expense then if you run say the heater on ine filter and the co2 in the other, just place the opposite filters intakes next to each spray bar. So right filters intakes on the left with left filter spray bar and left filter intakes on right with right filters spray bar if possible. This way you could opt for two in line diffusers but only one heater.
Also splitting the co2 to two in lines doesnt mean less pressure etc as you use two separate inline needle valves to control the flow making it even both sides.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Conger]

Thanks for this. I thought as much, but was also thinking that people must get it right without doing all that. I'm not so worried about the cost if it gets the right result, with less aggravation and swearing later on!

Having just got to grips with the co2 set up though, I'd better investigate your suggestion of separate inline needle valves - probably simple, but sounds complicated to someone who's not used these systems in practice before!

 

[ceg4048]

Hello,
Thanks for reading. If you can afford it, then get at least one of the Thermofilter version of the Eheim. That would be the 2180. I believe the internal heater is rated at 500W so that would eliminate the need for adding a heater in-line or in-tank. Even with the total ripoff pricing structure, the thermofilter pays you back with efficient and clutter-free operation. The only downside is that there are multiple intakes, which sort of negates the "clutter-free" concept, but that's life.

When you split the CO2, as Alister mentions, ideally you can use individual needle valves, but if you're a cheapskate, then you can sometimes get away with just using a "Y" downstream of the single needle valve. That's when you get uneven pressures in the two split lines. If you're going through the expense and trouble of multiple filters then it makes sense to go the extra mile and do a proper separation with individual needle valves, or even individual cylinders and regulators if money is no object.

Cheers,

 

[Conger]

Thanks. I had decided to use separate heaters as I've read that if the thermo filter heater breaks you have to send the whole unit off for repair. And reliability isn't sky high. So in the interests of keeping thing simple, keeping elements separate. I'd happily be convinced otherwise though! I suppose if I have two units though, there's some redundancy available...

 

[Ady34]

Coincidentally just posted this elsewhere, may be of use for splitting co2 effectively from one cylinder
Tri-Regulator + Bubble Counter -3way Brass CO2 splitter | eBay
there's a few different types and varying prices, but gives you an idea.
Cheerio,
Ady.

Having just got to grips with the co2 set up though, I'd better investigate your suggestion of separate inline needle valves - probably simple, but sounds complicated to someone who's not used these systems in practice before!

 

[DTL]

I installed one of these a few weeks back to allow a feed to my nano.
works well

Aquarium CO2 3 Way Brass Splitter for Solenoid Regulator & Cylinder | eBay

 

[ceg4048]

Thanks. I had decided to use separate heaters as I've read that if the thermo filter heater breaks you have to send the whole unit off for repair. And reliability isn't sky high. So in the interests of keeping thing simple, keeping elements separate. I'd happily be convinced otherwise though! I suppose if I have two units though, there's some redundancy available...

Well, yes, in the Pro III series the heater element is affixed to the bottom of the bucket so you'd have to send the bucket and the head unit. Any machine can break, and I have no doubt that thermofilters have failed, but I've used them exclusively for 20 years and the only problems I've had is drift of the thermostat calibration. Not sure who is saying they have poor reliability, or what reliability data has been used for this assessment. As you mention, if you have two of them then you do have some level of redundancy.

Cheers,

 

[Iain Sutherland]

Coincidentally just posted this elsewhere, may be of use for splitting co2 effectively from one cylinder
Tri-Regulator + Bubble Counter -3way Brass CO2 splitter | eBay
there's a few different types and varying prices, but gives you an idea.
Cheerio,
Ady.

id advise against these Ady, they do a reasonable job but the needle valves are almost useless, on or off almost, and filling the bubble counters sucks like you wont believe, once you fill them they leak so you have to do them up so tight the clear plastic cracks.
Just got one of these and it rules! about 10 full turns from off to full on so very precise german engineering
CO2 Verteiler
was recommended it by ed, not cheap but well worth it if spitting co2.

 

[Ady34]

Good to know Iain. Maybe worth spending a little more to get better quality.