First water test

[Trakkajack]

The lights are

It wasn't @Hufsa - I've just read @Trakkajack's journal, it was someone else - I'm not sure why a 4-5 hour photo period was being recommended, 6 hours should be the minimum in my mind, and on a low tech I'd aim to gradually increase to 10-12 hours over the next 3-4 months. @Trakkajack what lights do you currently use - I couldn't see it specifically mentioned?



As @Hufsa has said, melting of crypt leaves is completely normal - though never ceases to be annoying - some people even remove all leaves before planting to avoid the additional biological loading on the tank. If I were you, I would simply remove any leaves that show even the slightest signs of melting - they should put out new leaves in due course - though some plants can take several months to do so.

I note from your journal that you have recently added additional soil to the tank. That is likely the source of your more recent nitrite spike. I would continue with your large bi-daily water changes until your nitrite readings are zero. Then get the plants growing well for a few weeks before starting to add livestock, starting with a good clean up crew.

When you run out of Seachem Stability you dont have to buy another bottle, buy a nice plant you like instead or save your money 🙂
The jury is very much still out on wether or not bacterial supplements work, but I personally find it unlikely that they would contain the right species of germs that match exactly the natural balance a tank gets on its own. Scientists didnt know hardly anything about the germs that inhabit our tank until very recently, and I ask myself how the companies could have figured it out before them.
I cant tell you if you should stop using it or not, I dont think its actively harmful, maybe @dw1305 has an opinion on it.
A lot of people use these bacteria products and their tanks all find balance, so I think the biggest effect will be on the wallet.

Prime is good, keep using that. Not because it is particularly magical or anything but it does its job well and it is concentrated, so it is much more economic to use than AquaSafe and some other brands.


APT Complete fertilizer is a complete fertilizer, which is good.
That sentence may sound a bit silly but there are several fertilizers on the market sold as "All you need", when they contain no Nitrate or Phosphate!
Both of these are very important for plant growth and must be supplied, one way or another.

In APT Complete, the ratio of Nitrate to other nutrients is a bit lower than in Estimative Index (EI) fertilizer.
This ratio is to bring out extra red in some plants like Rotala, which is done by carefully and slightly starving the plant of Nitrate.
Starve them too much and they wont grow.

The only reason I write this is so that you are the most informed of what is going into your tank.
It will hopefully help you to troubleshoot any issues you might have down the road, and I hope it doesnt sound too scary right now 🙂

It can be useful to know that you may be running a bit lean on nitrate if the plants that dont have access to the soil starts having any symptoms.
Dont worry about it for now though, your tank is currently chock full of nutrients seeping out from all your fresh soil, so much so that you need to perform water changes to make sure it doesnt overwhelm the plants 🙂
Later on you can use the duckweed index to determine if you need a bit more nitrate.
If the floaters get plenty of light but remain quite small it means that they could be a bit hungry, and you'll know what you can try first

Dont kick yourself for any purchases you have made, there is a whole wild jungle out there of ferts and products, and each one claims to be the absolute bees knees and essential to have. Navigating it all as a newbie is an impossible task.

You have probably also noticed that sometimes you will get conflicting advice on this forum. I dont have a good solution for this, although it gets easier to navigate the advice as you gain more knowledge. Everyone has their own experience, opinion and view on what works for them. Sometimes its possible to take the average of the replies and go with that. Or the majority vote. I usually try to find a few people that seem very knowledgeable, and listen to how they do things. It also helps if they run their tank in the same style as you. I have found that high tech advice doesnt always translate well into low tech. Post count below their profile image can help sometimes to narrow it down, but cant be relied upon absolutely.
Lastly I like to go with what makes sense to me and prefer posts backed by science, like Darrels posts often do.
Although sometimes they just make me dizzy 😄
Im not sure where im going with this any more so I shall leave it at that 😁
If anything I have written is unclear, please let me know and I will try to elaborate.

Ok I think I’ve got most of that. Plants it is. I was worried getting more as I seem to be killing them but your previous explanations plus this have given me hope ha ha

 

[Trakkajack]

That seems to be a true complete fertiliser, which is good. There are quite a few on the market with 'complete' in the name but are missing vital elements. 🙂

That’s good to know. I will keep with this one then when I need some more!

 

[Trakkajack]

It wasn't @Hufsa - I've just read @Trakkajack's journal, it was someone else - I'm not sure why a 4-5 hour photo period was being recommended, 6 hours should be the minimum in my mind, and on a low tech I'd aim to gradually increase to 10-12 hours over the next 3-4 months. @Trakkajack what lights do you currently use - I couldn't see it specifically mentioned?



As @Hufsa has said, melting of crypt leaves is completely normal - though never ceases to be annoying - some people even remove all leaves before planting to avoid the additional biological loading on the tank. If I were you, I would simply remove any leaves that show even the slightest signs of melting - they should put out new leaves in due course - though some plants can take several months to do so.

I note from your journal that you have recently added additional soil to the tank. That is likely the source of your more recent nitrite spike. I would continue with your large bi-daily water changes until your nitrite readings are zero. Then get the plants growing well for a few weeks before starting to add livestock, starting with a good clean up crew.

Tomorrow will be the removal of leaves day then! Along with a water change - again!

 

[Trakkajack]

If you imagine the spray bar being on your back glass, pointing directly at your front glass, water going straight forward. You want to tilt it up towards the sky about 45 degrees so you get that nice surface ripple.
If you find your spraybar doesnt make enough ripples for your liking at 45 degrees you can tilt it up even further or play with the height placement a bit. Its not an exact science, we just need "good enough" rather than no ripples 🙂
The ripple is important because it allows your tank water to get more oxygen and CO2 from the air above the water. The more ripples, the more surface for this exchange. Both of us are running low tech, so we want to make sure our tanks have a lot of this exchange. It is our biggest source of CO2 for our plants, which is the nutrient they need the most.

The flow that goes down in the water then helps to deliver this fresh water replenished with some CO2 to our plants. After that the flow hopefully pushes the water back up again to the surface to get more CO2 and do another lap. This is the basics of why they say flow is so important. Its the nutrient delivery system.

I kept killing my floaters with all the flow, they dont like being dunked under water and while they can take some movement they dont like being blasted around all day. Ive had much more success with floaters after I made a little safe haven for them, im a bit over the top so I made a mesh basket for them, but I think many just use a piece of airline tubing and suction cups or something similar to make a little fenced area for them. Set the fenced area up where the surface is quite calm, but also where they get enough light. Meaning they should not be in a blind spot of your light fixture, otherwise the duckweed index doesnt work correctly.

Oh ok. I need the ripple. I get why now thanks. Yes I think I had too much ripple and bashed my new floating plants. I will mess about with it tomorrow when I do a water change and remove my dead leaves. What’s a duckweed index?!

 

[Hufsa]

Ah I thought you knew about that, my bad 😄

Duckweed index is Darrel's invention, and basically means that you use a floating plant to gauge wether or not you need more nutrients in your water.
The floating plant doesnt have to be duckweed, duckweed is very hard to get rid of once you get it, and it doesnt do well in acidic water from what I can remember.
But thats how it started so the name remains Duckweed Index 🙂
Darrel now recommends Amazon Frogbit as the index plant, because it has big green leaves and is easy to interpret. In addition to that it does well in all types of aquariums.
You can also use other floaters but I personally find Frogbit the best for the index, and keep some other species of floaters just for their looks.

The leaves of floating plants have access to the air, which means that they have basically unlimited access to CO2.
This is unlike our poor plants under water, that have to survive on a very minimum of CO2 (in low tech).
In addition to CO2, floating plants are at the top of the aquarium, so they almost always have access to the highest amount of light in your tank.
Provided we dont kill them with flow, that means that if the floating plants are unhappy, nutrients are the only possible variable left.
If the floaters are happy but underwater plants are not, the reason for underwater problems is therefore light or CO2 related.
If the floaters are unhappy we can see how they look to help guide us on what might be lacking. Very often it is iron or nitrate, but not always 🙂

 

[Hufsa]

On a slightly unrelated note, if you want to quote only a part of another persons post, it is possible to select and delete sections of their text when you have it in your reply area

 

[sparkyweasel]

It can be useful to keep your floating plants confined to one (or more) corner, using a cordon of fishing line between two suction cups. They don't get as much battering from the surfae agitation, and don't get swirled all around the tank.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

What’s a duckweed index?!

Duckweed index is Darrel's invention, and basically means that you use a floating plant to gauge wether or not you need more nutrients in your water.
The floating plant doesnt have to be duckweed, duckweed is very hard to get rid of once you get it, and it doesnt do well in acidic water from what I can remember.
But thats how it started so the name remains Duckweed Index 🙂
Darrel now recommends Amazon Frogbit as the index plant, because it has big green leaves and is easy to interpret. In addition to that it does well in all types of aquariums.
You can also use other floaters but I personally find Frogbit the best for the index, and keep some other species of floaters just for their looks.

Exactly that, Amazon Frogbit is just a more suitable Duckweed.

It would have been so much easier if I had called it the "Frogbit Index", but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I didn't <"really invent it">, I just took elements from research on using floating plants for the <"phytoremediation of waste water"> and applied to them to aquarium water management.

cheers Darrel

 

[Trakkajack]

Ah I thought you knew about that, my bad 😄

Duckweed index is Darrel's invention, and basically means that you use a floating plant to gauge wether or not you need more nutrients in your water.
The floating plant doesnt have to be duckweed, duckweed is very hard to get rid of once you get it, and it doesnt do well in acidic water from what I can remember.
But thats how it started so the name remains Duckweed Index 🙂
Darrel now recommends Amazon Frogbit as the index plant, because it has big green leaves and is easy to interpret. In addition to that it does well in all types of aquariums.
You can also use other floaters but I personally find Frogbit the best for the index, and keep some other species of floaters just for their looks.

The leaves of floating plants have access to the air, which means that they have basically unlimited access to CO2.
This is unlike our poor plants under water, that have to survive on a very minimum of CO2 (in low tech).
In addition to CO2, floating plants are at the top of the aquarium, so they almost always have access to the highest amount of light in your tank.
Provided we dont kill them with flow, that means that if the floating plants are unhappy, nutrients are the only possible variable left.
If the floaters are happy but underwater plants are not, the reason for underwater problems is therefore light or CO2 related.
If the floaters are unhappy we can see how they look to help guide us on what might be lacking. Very often it is iron or nitrate, but not always 🙂

Ohh I see. Once again a good explanation for a newbie to understand thank you! Much appreciated!

 

[Trakkajack]

it is possible to select and delete sections of their text when you have it in your reply area

Got it!

 

[Trakkajack]

It can be useful to keep your floating plants confined to one (or more) corner, using a cordon of fishing line between two suction cups.

You say that like I just happen to have fishing line and suction cups to hand. That made me chuckle. I understand now that I bashed them to death by water canon poor things. So I’m just going to my suction cup draw now .... I’m only joking by the way .... I definitely have a suction cup drawer ... no. No. I definitely don’t ...

 

[Hufsa]

.... I definitely have a suction cup drawer ... no. No. I definitely don’t ...

If you don't have one yet you will have one very soon!
Its amazing how many little thingamajigs and doodads the aquarium hobby accumulates.
I have about 5 big storage boxes worth, but I've been hoarding for "a few years". You never know when you will need a zip tie and a suction cup for something. Soon you will be a doodad dragon just like us

 

[Karmicnull]

Soon you will be a doodad dragon just like us

That's no lie. One of the first things that went into my doodad drawer was a bumper pack of airline suction cups - specifically for the airline that I use to cordon off my floaters from the spraybar/millrace. I had a ton of things like "airline splitters" and "filter floss" on my Christmas list. But I would have to say the best addition to my doodad drawer was a set of pipettes varying in size from 0.25 ml to 10ml (from Amazon) which I use to add Prime, Excel, Meth Blue, and any other 'x ml per 20 Litre' stuff. Beats the pants off the whole 'one capful is approximately 5mls" that's on the instructions that come with so many bottles. Whenever I tried that the floor always got liberal sloshings of the chemical in question!
The one problem with my doodad drawer is that the bright orange 46 litre squishy bucket that was delivered yesterday doesn't fit....

 

[Trakkajack]

That's no lie. One of the first things that went into my doodad drawer was a bumper pack of airline suction cups - specifically for the airline that I use to cordon off my floaters from the spraybar/millrace. I had a ton of things like "airline splitters" and "filter floss" on my Christmas list. But I would have to say the best addition to my doodad drawer was a set of pipettes varying in size from 0.25 ml to 10ml (from Amazon) which I use to add Prime, Excel, Meth Blue, and any other 'x ml per 20 Litre' stuff. Beats the pants off the whole 'one capful is approximately 5mls" that's on the instructions that come with so many bottles. Whenever I tried that the floor always got liberal sloshings of the chemical in question!
The one problem with my doodad drawer is that the bright orange 46 litre squishy bucket that was delivered yesterday doesn't fit....

Now I’ve just been on to aquarium gardens and ordered Frogbit and a fishing net and some other bits. I now need airline? And airline suction cups?! Oh gawd. I look forward to getting my doodad drawer. I feel a bit left out now without one ... you now need a doodad garage basically to house all the accumulation of bits just in case ...

 

[Trakkajack]

filter floss"

I have filter floss. All is not lost ...!

 

[John q]

I think this is becoming your new journal. Lol.

Anyway if I missed your answer to this apologies.

@Trakkajack what lights do you currently use - I couldn't see it specifically mentioned?

I've done a little searching and come up with this, @Trakkajack can you confirm if these are the correct ones?
If they are, which of the 3 lamps are you using, the flat one in the centre (top picture) or one of the extra two that comprises the illumination kit (bottom picture).

 

[Trakkajack]

I think this is becoming your new journal. Lol.

Anyway if I missed your answer to this apologies.

I've done a little searching and come up with this, @Trakkajack can you confirm if these are the correct ones?
If they are, which of the 3 lamps are you using, the flat one in the centre (top picture) or one of the extra two that comprises the illumination kit (bottom picture).
View attachment 167342View attachment 167341

I got the two that come with the tank then an extra one that is red, white and blue. Horizon Aquatics picked it as it fit into the slots already there

 

[John q]

And is it just the red, white and blue one that you're using? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to figure out how much light you have or haven't got in the tank.

 

[Trakkajack]

And is it just the red, white and blue one that you're using? Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to figure out how much light you have or haven't got in the tank.

Yes I’m just putting on the red, white and blue and move the lighting strip from the back to the middle ie towards the front of the tank. I did have all 3 lights on initially then reduced it to one light for 4 hours which I now know was too much of a reduction. So I’m now increasing the one light to 6 hours. Not there yet ...