First aquascape

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Just out of interest, have you ever used nitrico goop when starting a new aquarium?

It is unlikely to do any harm, but it probably isn't going to do much good. They promise instant gratification, but actually there main aim is to transfer your money to the vendor.

The problem is really the <"ammonia loading of the bioreactors"> these sorts of products are produced in. If I was going to use this sort of product? I'd use Tim Hovanec's <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">

Have a look at this thread: <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee">. This is what Dr Newton said:

.... It is a good question to ask where the initial inoculum of nitrifiers comes from & it is a question that I do not have a definitive answer. Nitrifiers are present in many environments because they can live with comparably low external nutrients (carbon particularly). There are a couple of good possibilities, 1) the water - most municipal water systems contain some number of nitrifiers, which then come out of your residence tap; 2) the plants - nitrifiers are also commonly associated with plants. Or, it could be they drift in from the air - seems less likely, but it is not impossible.

If you do need to add nitrifiers the best source is from an aquaponics or aquaculture system that is already running and removing ammonia. Some water or sediment/soil or part of the biobilter (if there is one) is an excellent starter. Without this source as an inoculum then you could add some roots from plants from any other tank that is running - these are likely to have nitrifiers associated with them. A small clipping put into the tank would be enough.

In some lab tests we found that adding previous material from a running biofilter could reduce ammonia oxidation start-up time from 2-3 weeks to 2-3 days. We also tested a commercial product of nitrifiers & it did decrease the time to ammonia oxidation start-up. It was slower than our biofilter material transfer, but much quicker than doing nothing. However, the microbes present in the system from the commercial product disappeared over a few weeks and were replaced by those more common to our system. So, it seems some products could help “jump-start” the process, but it will be a lot less predictable and ultimately may not determine what microbe succeed in the long run.

cheers Darrel

 

[Connswater]

LED (6500k) 30w floodlights

With a deeper tank, over 18 inches I would tend to use 50 watt floods, they aren't really any more expensive and will give a better punch, if you want, longer term, and I know you are thinking of a dedicated aquarium light eventually, to grow high light plants such Rotala Macrandra or some challenging carpeting plants, you might need higher wattage, it partly depends on the total height substrate to LED. With your plant choice I would probably say 3X50 will work well, but if you get adventurous you might need a 100 watt in the middle and a 50 either side. My tank runs with four floodlights, two 100 watt and two warm white 30 watt, the latter are actually very effective, better than some other same wattage lights I have used. My tank is a bit longer than your tank but not as deep. I am of the opinion many folks with light and CO2 struggle at first because they are mixing high light and low light plants. You seem to have gone for mid light plants.

 

[PABrooks]

With a deeper tank, over 18 inches I would tend to use 50 watt floods, they aren't really any more expensive and will give a better punch, if you want, longer term, and I know you are thinking of a dedicated aquarium light eventually, to grow high light plants such Rotala Macrandra or some challenging carpeting plants, you might need higher wattage, it partly depends on the total height substrate to LED. With your plant choice I would probably say 3X50 will work well, but if you get adventurous you might need a 100 watt in the middle and a 50 either side. My tank runs with four floodlights, two 100 watt and two warm white 30 watt, the latter are actually very effective, better than some other same wattage lights I have used. My tank is a bit longer than your tank but not as deep. I am of the opinion many folks with light and CO2 struggle at first because they are mixing high light and low light plants. You seem to have gone for mid light plants.

Thanks for your feedback, I’ve now got 4x30 w floods ! I’ll see how they work out but I’ve tried to be smart and I can replace them fairly easily. See pics attached 🙂
I’ll keep you posted on how it goes. Tank arriving 31st, hopefully plants in by mid Feb 🙂

 

[PABrooks]

Hi all,

It is unlikely to do any harm, but it probably isn't going to do much good. They promise instant gratification, but actually there main aim is to transfer your money to the vendor.

The problem is really the <"ammonia loading of the bioreactors"> these sorts of products are produced in. If I was going to use this sort of product? I'd use Tim Hovanec's <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">

Have a look at this thread: <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee">. This is what Dr Newton said:


cheers Darrel

It’s a fascinating world ! Thanks for your feedback 🙂

 

[Matthias]

Great to see the progress on the diy build. Good luck with the project, can’t wait to see it set up.

 

[G H Nelson]

Just out of interest, have you ever used nitrico goop when starting a new aquarium?

No, I use plants!

Thread 'Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!'

19 Nov 2020

The subject of using fast-growing stem plants as part of a filtering aid has cropped up a few times recently.
This idea has been around for a long time so not new, it has benefits, especially for a new setup.

1. Improves water quality.
2. Reduces excess light.
3. Reduces diatoms.
4. Reduces Nitrite.
5. Reduces Nitrate.
6. Helps reduce algae outbreaks.
7. Indicator of a Nitrate shortage.
8. Oxygenates the water column.
9. Increases beneficial bacteria.
10. Plant cover.

Using fast-growing stem plants as a floating plant filtering aid has always worked well for me!
Although every aquarium...

• G H Nelson
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Articles / Tutorials

• 

 

[PABrooks]

No, I use plants!

Thread 'Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!'

19 Nov 2020

The subject of using fast-growing stem plants as part of a filtering aid has cropped up a few times recently.
This idea has been around for a long time so not new, it has benefits, especially for a new setup.

1. Improves water quality.
2. Reduces excess light.
3. Reduces diatoms.
4. Reduces Nitrite.
5. Reduces Nitrate.
6. Helps reduce algae outbreaks.
7. Indicator of a Nitrate shortage.
8. Oxygenates the water column.
9. Increases beneficial bacteria.
10. Plant cover.

Using fast-growing stem plants as a floating plant filtering aid has always worked well for me!
Although every aquarium...

• G H Nelson
• Replies: 0
• Forum: Articles / Tutorials

• 

Hopefully it’s all going to work out well. There’s so much to learn 🙂 thanks for the feedback🙂

 

[PABrooks]

Great to see the progress on the diy build. Good luck with the project, can’t wait to see it set up.

You and me both ! Can’t wait to get the hardscape in and order the plants 🙂

 

[Connswater]

4x30 w floods

I think that will work for a good range of plants, 120 watts nicely spread, the ADA RGB solar is rated at 180 watts, but obviously Lumens and PAR will be different, as is the price! All looks very tidy and professional. Good luck, enjoy and keep us up to date.

 

[PABrooks]

Tank situated and hardware installed. Spray bar as high as possible but it means the clip is above the tank. (Nothing cable ties can’t solve!)

What do you think of the extra rocks? They’re fossilised wood but not quite the same colour as the original ones (one at the front).

 

[PABrooks]

In-between the black geotextile is a layer of lava rock seeded with bacterial gel balls. This will act as a secondary filter of sorts. The intake for the Fluval FX6 is just above this layer at the top rh corner.
On top of the geotextile is a layer of Dennerle deponit base substrate. On top of this will go the Oase scaperline soil (brown) and at the front, natural river sand.

Ordering plants on Monday ! Maybe even tomorrow.

 

[Connswater]

hardware installed

If this link works...it will hopefully reassure you that bog standard cheap LEDs grow plants, currently my tank is actually even healthier, but my photographic skills seem to have deteriorated, I might need to ask my son for a quick refresher course.

 

[PABrooks]

If this link works...it will hopefully reassure you that bog standard cheap LEDs grow plants, currently my tank is actually even healthier, but my photographic skills seem to have deteriorated, I might need to ask my son for a quick refresher course.

Lovely music 🙂 fantastic looking plants 🙂

 

[PABrooks]

Almost finished 🙂 hardscape glued together and soil and sand in.

 

[PABrooks]

Well, it’s all in and working !

There were some tricky logistics to overcome as some plants on original wish list weren’t available at the time of ordering. Final plant list as follows:

Eleocharis acicularis Mini X2
Microsorum pteropus Windelov x2
Microsorum pteropus Trident narrow leaf X3
Pogostemon Helferi X3
Eriocaulon sp Dong ha x2
Eriocaulon sp 'Vietnam X2
Cryptocoryne spiralis ‘tiger’x2
Bacopa salsmanni purple x2
Rotala Blood Red X2
Hygrophila Siamensis 53B X2
Bucephalandra Theia x4
Cryptocoryne Parva x4
Vesicularia Ferriei 'Weeping' Moss Portion X2
Taxiphyllum Flame Moss X2
Anubias Petite X3
Anubias Golden Coin x1
Anubias Nana Mini X3
Ludwigia mini super red X2
Alternanthera Reineckii Rosanervig X2

I think that’s it. Had fun planting it and the background plants are a real beautiful jumble which will hopefully look fairly natural.

Thanks so much to Pete at Riverwood Aquatics and Nicole at Horizon for the plants.

Re filter set up (bacteria) I’ve got gel balls underneath the soil impregnated into lava rock, gell balls in FX6 along with a good dose of Dr Tim’s one and only.

Thanks everyone for your advice and help. I’ll keep posting as time progresses and the scape matures.

 

[PABrooks]

1st 50% water change done. Ammonia is still too high 0.5 ppm. I’m not very impressed with the Dr Tims one and only. Don’t know what conditions (or what’s in a tank) that would allow for instant cycle but mine sure isn’t yet !

Really enjoying the plants. No fish in there yet. Nothings melted and hopefully nothing will! FX6 is a bit noisier than expected and I’m wondering wether chocking it full of biohome media was a good idea! I’ve got purigen in the bottom tray along with a bag of oyster grit as my water is soft.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I’m not very impressed with the Dr Tims one and only.

I'll be honest they aren't products I particularly like, or would use, but I think Tim Hovanec's product is the most likely one to work. You can read what he said here <"Dr Timothy Hovanec's comments about Bacterial supplements">

........ One and Only has changed from my previous ‘invention’ which was BioSpira® or now Tetra SafeStart. I did not wish to incur any problems with my previous company which was acquired by the company that also owned Tetra and my lab shutdown. One and Only was a different product compared to BioSpira® from the start of DrTim’s Aquatics

Whether the assemblage of microbe present in the product has changed to reflect this new research?
I am not sure how this will sound but the ‘recent research’ is really not that recent it is just not widely published. The Comammox Nitrospira yes, but the AOA - no. However, as a private company there was no benefit to publishing research and to tell you the truth most people don’t seem to believe anything coming from a private company that sells bacteria. If you look at the forums the overwhelming opinion (at least by the very vocal minority of self-proclaimed experts) is that bacteria can’t live in a bottle, supplements don’t work and it is all just snake oil. I gave up fighting that long ago. This vocal minority seems to think science does not pertain to aquariums but it very much does and biology is complex - that’s the fun part!

That said, DrTim’s One and Only has had AOA’s since the beginning. I hedged the product by only making two types - freshwater and marine and adding AOB, AOA and Nitrospira to each. The exact details I will not disclose for obvious reasons but I am very good at growing these bacteria - I have been doing it for 25 years!. I have attached a recent paper by Urakawa and Sipos that details the assemblage make up on One and Only for your review it is mostly correct.

whether ammonia addition is necessary? - yes it is but the amount should be limited – never go above 5 mg/L ammonia-nitrogen or nitrite-nitrogen........

and Ryan Newton's comments about supplements here - <"Correspondence with Dr Ryan Newton - School of Freshwater Sciences, University of Wisconsin—Milwaukee">. This was what Dr Newton said:

...... In some lab tests we found that adding previous material from a running biofilter could reduce ammonia oxidation start-up time from 2-3 weeks to 2-3 days. We also tested a commercial product of nitrifiers & it did decrease the time to ammonia oxidation start-up. It was slower than our biofilter material transfer, but much quicker than doing nothing. However, the microbes present in the system from the commercial product disappeared over a few weeks and were replaced by those more common to our system. So, it seems some products could help “jump-start” the process, but it will be a lot less predictable and ultimately may not determine what microbe succeed in the long run....

So a limited benefit from microbial supplements, but not as <"good as plants"> or filter material.

Don’t know what conditions (or what’s in a tank) that would allow for instant cycle but mine sure isn’t yet !

Honestly there isn't an <"instant cycle">, it is wish fulfillment by some, less than honest, vendors.

Really enjoying the plants. No fish in there yet.

Let it grow in, once it is grown in it is fish safe, it really is as simple as that <"Another cycling video from the Aquarium Co-Op">.

cheers Darrel

 

[bazz]

Don’t know what conditions (or what’s in a tank) that would allow for instant cycle but mine sure isn’t yet !

Using ripe biomedia (as mentioned by Darrel), and established plants will help speed things up, along with some other processes we want to happen in the substrate, but whatever you add, the Nitrogen cycle will not balance out until you have added your last fish and everything becomes a constant. I personally don't think a scape geared for the long term (as opposed to speed growing and re-scaping in 6 months, for competitions etc) is fully matured until somewhere around the 6 month mark, and after that it just gets better.

FX6 is a bit noisier than expected and I’m wondering wether chocking it full of biohome media was a good idea!

Hopefully it will quieten down a bit when it has run for a while and the internals get a good coating of biofilm/lube. I would remove some of the Biohome, you really don't need quite so much in a planted tank, especially if it is restricting flow. I am also not too keen on that guy's philosophy either 🙂

 

[PABrooks]

Using ripe biomedia (as mentioned by Darrel), and established plants will help speed things up, along with some other processes we want to happen in the substrate, but whatever you add, the Nitrogen cycle will not balance out until you have added your last fish and everything becomes a constant. I personally don't think a scape geared for the long term (as opposed to speed growing and re-scaping in 6 months, for competitions etc) is fully matured until somewhere around the 6 month mark, and after that it just gets better.

Hopefully it will quieten down a bit when it has run for a while and the internals get a good coating of biofilm/lube. I would remove some of the Biohome, you really don't need quite so much in a planted tank, especially if it is restricting flow. I am also not too keen on that guy's philosophy either 🙂

Hi Bazz and Darrel,

Yeah, all a learning curve. I’m loving my plants and that’s a huge bonus. I did a fair bit of thinking re the biohome (or any other media) and it sort of made sense to me to maximise the capacity of the FX6. I’ve turned down the intake (slightly) on the FX and it’s quieter. I think it was straining a bit at full tilt. It’s a huge filter for the tank anyhew (it’s only ‘he says’! 340 ish litres with nothing in it) probably around 275/280 I’d I thought with the scape.
I’ve used 21 litres of Oase scaper soil and 10/15kg of denerelle deponit base so plenty of ammonia probably leaching from that.

I’ve just bought a bottle of Seachem stability as I reckon it can’t harm and maybe help.

I’m thinking of doing (as a routine) two 33% water changes a week.

Hopefully I’ll have zero ammonia by the end of the week… fingers crossed.

 

[PABrooks]

Using ripe biomedia (as mentioned by Darrel), and established plants will help speed things up, along with some other processes we want to happen in the substrate, but whatever you add, the Nitrogen cycle will not balance out until you have added your last fish and everything becomes a constant. I personally don't think a scape geared for the long term (as opposed to speed growing and re-scaping in 6 months, for competitions etc) is fully matured until somewhere around the 6 month mark, and after that it just gets better.

Hopefully it will quieten down a bit when it has run for a while and the internals get a good coating of biofilm/lube. I would remove some of the Biohome, you really don't need quite so much in a planted tank, especially if it is restricting flow. I am also not too keen on that guy's philosophy either 🙂

Replied to you and Bazz on Bazz’s comment 😃