Filter media

[Zeus.]

Regarding the reduction of flow using ceramic media etc what about stacking the siporax media vertically in the media baskets, wouldn't this possibly reduce the chance a reduction of flow significantly? I recently closed down a marine tank and had siporax this way in there. Just a thought 🙂

I asked Clive a similar question his reply was just don't pack as much in. By putting less in there is less reduction in flow. I took about 3/4 of my ceramic out and all was fine.

 

[Guest]

I use just enough media to cover the base of each compartment, no more. You don't need a lot with a heavily planted tank and low bioload.
Also, I binned the floss pad, it didn't do anything for water clarity, and it impeded flow.

 

[_Maq_]

It's wonderful to meet such a vigorous "Minimalist Filtration" section of this society.
But what if I dare to take the last step and put the groundbreaking question: Do we truly have any evidence that filters do any good apart from moving the water?

 

[MichaelJ]

Do we truly have any evidence that filters do any good apart from moving the water?

In a planted tank I don't really think so. I rely on my filters for water movement (flow/circulation) and mechanical filtration - they suck up quite a bit of gunk. All the bio filtration I need is done by the plants and substrate.
Cheers,
Michael

 

[PARAGUAY]

I think it obvious that beneficial bacteria in a filter is not needed as such in a well planted healthy thriving aquarium but (as a hobbyist not scientific)filters must hold when matured large amounts of beneficial bacteria ,ask any aquarium store were seeded filters are moved about to accommodate new fish stock.
Opinions differ with what media price of media etc differs, but it's hard to argue with the clarity of ADA gallery aquariums or Green Aqua showroom both of these cram filters with bio media but of course both use pressurized CO2

 

[FrozenShivers]

Opinions differ with what media price of media etc differs, but it's hard to argue with the clarity of ADA gallery aquariums or Green Aqua showroom both of these cram filters with bio media but of course both use pressurized CO2

I would have thought this was more due to them being professionally maintained very regularly, rather than the amount of bio media in their filters?

 

[Hanuman]

I think it obvious that beneficial bacteria in a filter is not needed as such in a well planted healthy thriving aquarium but (as a hobbyist not scientific)filters must hold when matured large amounts of beneficial bacteria ,ask any aquarium store were seeded filters are moved about to accommodate new fish stock.

Indeed and that's exactly what I have come to use the filter for. When reseting the tank either partially or fully, having a filter with media will save you a lot of time. If I was never to reset the tank then the media in the filter wouldn't be of much use.

... but it's hard to argue with the clarity of ADA gallery aquariums or Green Aqua showroom both of these cram filters with bio media but of course both use pressurized CO2

IMO it's not the media but as said above the amount of work that goes into maintenance in those tanks. Many times over there is this impression that tanks in those galleries are spotless and self regulate and are in optimum condition year round. That is far from the truth. All these tanks and those from ADA included have paid employees just to clean and maintain these tanks regularly and make sure they are spotless since it's important for their image. My main tank for instance is crystal clear year around but that's because I spend 3 hours every Saturday to clean the tank and everyday or two I am cleaning the skimmer and removing whatever debris I see floating around. I also lightly vacuum the substrate at each water change. I wouldn't say my filter is crammed with media and I only have 1. What these filter do in heavily planted tanks is mainly mechanical flirtation and polishing. Just MO.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Do we truly have any evidence that filters do any good apart from moving the water?

I think it is going to depend on <"your fish load"> and <"how much dissolved oxygen"> you can introduce into the system. I'd guess (and I'd be pretty sure it is right) that the microbial assemblage is always <"fine tuned"> by oxygen and ammonia loadings and the actual location of those nitrifying microbes is relatively irrelevant, unless you have an entirely bare tank, without a substrate.

In the <"bare tank" scenario"> the assemblage will be in the filter and you could have a situation where there physically isn't enough a large enough volume of surfaces for full nitrification to occur.

...... Even then (in the "bare tank" scenario) it would be dependent upon the amount of dissolved oxygen reaching the filter media. Often external filters run at a fraction of their nitrification potential because the water becomes deoxygenated within the filter. As long as removing one filter didn't reduce the amount of oxygen in the water you won't have changed the biological filtration potential, because it's nearly always dependent on the amount of dissolved oxygen in the water, not the volume of filter material.....

After that there is the problem of untangling <"plant / microbe biofiltration"> from <"microbe only biofiltration"> <"Application of water hyacinth (Eichhornia crassipes) for phytoremediation of ammoniacal nitrogen: A review">*. Theoretically it would be possible to have "plant only biofiltration", but in non-sterile conditions it will always be a <"synergistic "plant / microbe" situation">.

.......... There is a <"huge amount of scientific literature"> on the efficiency of plant/microbe filtration, along with a <"growing body of evidence"> (based on RNA profiles) that microbial filtration is carried out by a much wider range of organisms than was traditionally thought, but very little of this has filtered through to the more traditional parts of the fish keeping community, where plants are often regarded as merely decoration, and endless hours are spent discussing ammonia and cycling.

I maybe cynical, but I think that certain parts of the fish keeping industry are very interested in keeping people in the dark about the key factors in successful fish keeping, possibly so that they can carry on selling them all sorts of "magic bullets"..........

The way forward is outside of our reach, but would consist of:

• Using isotope labelled nitrogen (N) in an ammonia feed-stock and then tracing it through the system <"https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2022.865578/pdf">**.
• Looking for the <"gene sequences"> from ammonia and nitrite oxidation.

* W.H.T. Ting, I.A.W. Tan, S.F. Salleh, N.A. Wahab, (2018) "Application of water hyacinth (Eichhornia crassipes) for phytoremediation of ammoniacal nitrogen: A review", Journal of Water Process Engineering, 22, pp. 239-249,
**Xian, L., Ochieng, W.A., Muthui, S.W., Otieno, D.O., Yu, S., Li, W., Yan, X., Yu, Q. and Liu, F., (2022). "The Above-Ground Part of Submerged Macrophytes Plays an Important Role in Ammonium Utilization". Frontiers in Plant Science, 13, p.865578.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

As @dw1305 repeatedly documented, microbial communities in our tanks are probably far richer than we used to believe. Any and each of them enjoys competitive advantage in rather narrowly defined conditions. It's likely that microbes living in substrate and on the surfaces within the tank are NOT identical with those inhabiting the filter (different light, flow & oxygen conditions). We may consider filter a compartmental, additional habitat for rather different microbes doing quite the same job. I believe that the microbial community inside the tank is richer, because of abundance of various niches, complete redox scale, etc.

The halftime of organics decomposition/recycling vary significantly. While lysed microbes are recycled rapidly, supportive tissues of plants containing manly polysacharides with very few nutrients are not attractive. The effect of mechanical removal of those pieces of debris is far more visual than biological.

Exactly that as a summary. A filter gives you <"belt and braces">, but it is the <"plant / microbe biofiltration"> that is performing most of the <"heavy lifting"> and not all <"waste materials are equal">.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I believe half of this effect stems from using enormous quantities of high-grade activated carbon in Amano's filters. I'm a regular user of activated carbon, and, together with water professionals, I often observe improved clarity of water treated with AC.
Questions remain, though, on quantity of AC, its quality (from coconut vs. from coal, acid washed, a.o.), and periods of replacement. I suspect that Amano - with his budget - knew well why he opted for high quantity of the best of all activated carbons available.
Myself, I study AC effects in long-term horizon, yet I don't dispose of Amano's budget, that's the difference, I'm afraid. BUT I strongly suspect that cheap Asian AC's made from coconut (they form majority on the market) perform poorly for our purposes, thus I'm using solely AC made of coal, plus I wash it in acid before use (rather bothersome job).
Now, WHY does AC make the water clearer? Two effects. Firstly, it traps dissolved organics, of which some colorize the water. Secondly, by trapping dissolved organics, it makes the water "hungry" - unable to feed free-floating microbes.

I should have said that it is definitely true there are a lot of different grades of Activated Charcoal <"https://www.sigmaaldrich.com/GB/en/product/sigald/c4386">.

We use them to <"decolourise the samples to go through spectrophotometry">. This is often the <"sort of colour we start with">, so it needs to work.

Sudiarto, S., Renggaman, A. & Choi, H. (2019) <"Floating aquatic plants for total nitrogen and phosphorus removal from treated swine wastewater and their biomass characteristics"> Journal of Environmental Management 231 pp 763-769

Fig. 3. Initial (A) and final (B) appearance of floating plants in the E-10 treatment (upper pictures) and H-0.5 treatment (lower pictures). From the left to right (Lemna sp, Pistia stratiotes, Echornia crassipes, Limnobium Laevigatum). E10 = 10% swine Effluent, H0.5 1/2 strength Hoagland's solution.

In terms of a measure of organic pollution, it is something that scientists struggle with <"Cotton Strip Bioassay?"> or <"Alder (Alnus) leaf mesh bags"> might be an option?

cheers Darrel

 

[PARAGUAY]

I would have thought this was more due to them being professionally maintained very regularly, rather than the amount of bio media in their filters?

That last bit l mention CO2 with reason because maintenance is increased and of course ADA have a lot of staff and volunteers working on the tanks. ADA Bio Media has excellent filtration properties which they say is a cornerstone of crystal clear water. It's hard to argue it when you look at ADA aquariums,As @_Maq_ says this can be achieved by activated carbon .And the plants themselves. Even so probably the most successful contest aquascaper in IAPLC only changes some 20% at water change.