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Fert help

dw1305

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Hi all,
There is indeed and you are correct it is soft water.
It is a strange one, just because the conductivity and calcium values are really variable I'd guess you have a blended supply where sometimes it is soft water and sometimes it is harder, presumably with water from a limestone aquifer blended in.

cheers Darrel
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
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Can I mix the trace salts together?
I did and didn't have any issues /precipitate. I have also done it with One macro mix and two trace mixes so i could play with the amounts of each trace salt I add.
If using Fe DTPA keep it out of direct sunlight as it can break down pretty quick, also if using auto doser use tubing which has blackout - I just some black tape
 

Sacul

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No auto doser.... Yet, that's next on the list once I've got everything else sorted.

As for mixing macros and traces together, can that be done? Obviously it's been done as the all in one's have them mixed but at alot lower concentrations. Just wondered if it would work
 

jaypeecee

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Bracknell
Hi @Hufsa

I have several scientific papers investigating copper toxicity on aquatic organisms - including fish and shrimp. I'll dig them out tomorrow. I also seem to recall that it's not so much GH that has a bearing on toxicity but alkalinity/KH. I'll be back.

JPC
Hi Folks,

The following link is the one I had in mind that refers to alkalinity:


JPC
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
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Obviously it's been done as the all in one's have them mixed but at alot lower concentrations. Just wondered if it would work
The IFC gives the E202 and E300 amounts you need to add to the water of the All In One. Add them first before any other salts
1652111402597.png


I personally when making fert solutions make larger volumes and dose more, it acts like a little top up as well as a fert, plus the more dilute a solution the less chance of 'common ion effects' and other interactions.
IMO Dry dosing is best 'if' you tank is big enough, then Macro and Micro dosing Then AIO.
Front loading is also becoming popular ( which I have yet to try)- this is where you dose all the macros after WC which also saves on needing an auto doser and Dry salt would also fit well. Then Micro is dosed every other day - so only one doser needed
 

Zeus.

Fertz Calc Meister
Joined
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Location
Yorkshire,UK
Obviously it's been done as the all in one's have them mixed but at alot lower concentrations. Just wondered if it would work
The IFC gives the E202 and E300 amounts you need to add to the water of the All In One. Add them first before any other salts
View attachment 188281

I personally when making fert solutions make larger volumes and dose more, it acts like a little top up as well as a fert, plus the more dilute a solution the less chance of 'common ion effects' and other interactions.
IMO Dry dosing is best 'if' you tank is big enough, then Macro and Micro dosing Then AIO.
Front loading is also becoming popular ( which I have yet to try)- this is where you dose all the macros after WC which also saves on needing an auto doser and Dry salt would also fit well. Then Micro is dosed every other day - so only one doser needed
 

Sacul

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I think maybe I could get away with dry dosing as it's 300L but im not sure I could stick to measuring it all out 2-3 times a week, seems it could get tedious haha. That's why I was thinking AIO approach just for the ease of it
 

xZaiox

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Maidstone, UK
I think maybe I could get away with dry dosing as it's 300L but im not sure I could stick to measuring it all out 2-3 times a week, seems it could get tedious haha. That's why I was thinking AIO approach just for the ease of it
For what it's worth, I dry dose my 180L tank and it's incredibly easy. I've got all of my salts in tubs with a label I put on for how much to dose of each, and I bought a set of measuring spoons going all the way from 1 tablespoon to 1/64th of a teaspoon. It literally takes me less than 1 minute per day to dose the tank.
 

Zeus.

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I think maybe I could get away with dry dosing as it's 300L but im not sure I could stick to measuring it all out 2-3 times a week, seems it could get tedious haha. That's why I was thinking AIO approach just for the ease of it
Just selecting the macro dose to once per week will show the amount of each dry salt to dose after WC ;)
1652113610502.png
 

Sacul

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Yea I might try that. WC then dry dose the weeks amount of macros. I suppose a dry dose after WC is no more tedious than the WC itself 😁
 

Zeus.

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Yea I might try that. WC then dry dose the weeks amount of macros. I suppose a dry dose after WC is no more tedious than the WC itself 😁
I was chatting with @Hanuman the other day and we was chatting about front loading as he was trying it. I think Front loading has quite a few good points going for it esp for the larger tanks when the dry dosing amounts are easy to measure.
 

Sacul

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Looking at my weekly dry dose amounts, should I round them up/down or try to get them exact?

Screenshot_20220509_175015_com.microsoft.office.excel.jpg
 

Zeus.

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Yorkshire,UK
Looking at my weekly dry dose amounts, should I round them up/down or try to get them exact?

View attachment 188284
I would try and keep them relatively close eg take the Mono Potassium Phosphate mass of 0.86grams per week, weigh out 8.6grams then by eye spilt it into 10 equal piles each will be about 0.86grams or less mass and less piles
 

jaypeecee

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Bracknell
Hi Folks,

Here's another very useful resource:


I have found Sections 7 and 8 of the above document to be useful. No doubt there will be a UK/European equivalent. Perhaps if someone has the details of such a document, they could include a link in this thread. It's possible that I have such a document but I can't track it down right now.

JPC
 
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jaypeecee

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No doubt there will be a UK/European equivalent. Perhaps if someone has the details of such a document, they could include a link in this thread. It's possible that I have such a document but I can't track it down right now.

Me again!

Much to my surprise, I read the following in the Canadian document:

"The European Union does not consider Cu a substance of priority and therefore does not have a European Environmental Quality Standard (EQS) for Cu (European Commission, 2000; 2008; 2013)".

JPC
 

MichaelJ

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Minnesota, USA
Me again!

Much to my surprise, I read the following in the Canadian document:

"The European Union does not consider Cu a substance of priority and therefore does not have a European Environmental Quality Standard (EQS) for Cu (European Commission, 2000; 2008; 2013)".

JPC

In the US the EPA limit for Cu is a whopping 1.3 ppm (WHO recommended limit is 2.0 ppm). Quite above the LC50 24 hour lethal limit for most invertebrates, and of course toxicity goes up as pH/KH goes down! IF you keep dwarf shrimps in tap water always know your Cu levels! In my shrimp tank I keep my Cu level at ~0.02 ppm.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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jaypeecee

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IF you keep dwarf shrimps in tap water always know your Cu levels!
Hi @MichaelJ & Everyone,

I picked out one of my Water Company Test Reports (for 2018) and the copper values ranged from 0.01 mg/l to 1.02 mg/l. The PCV* is 2 mg/l.

I choose remineralized RODI** water for the aquatics hobby.

* PCV = Prescribed Concentration or Value
** RODI = Reverse Osmosis De-Ionized

JPC
 

MichaelJ

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Minnesota, USA
Hi @MichaelJ

I guess that you're using the Seachem Copper Test Kit or perhaps not? Out of interest, what are Alkalinity/KH, GH and pH in your shrimp tank?

Thanks in advance.

JPC

Hi @jaypeecee.

Yes, I've used the Seachem Copper Test Kit to test the water in my shrimp tank and it was barely detecting anything - for very low levels the test is very hard to perform - I used it more as a sanity check. I use RODI water and the quoted 0.02 ppm of Cu is what I am supposed to get from my traces in that particular tank where KH is <1 and GH ~6.0 and pH 6.5.

My tap water is a different story: My water report from 2021 states that 90% of households tested below 0.37 ppm, and none tested "high", high is presumably 80% of the EPA limit or higher. So the only thing I can safely say is that my tap water Cu level is below 1.0 ppm (which is 80% of the EPA limit of 1.3 ppm). Either way, I wouldn't consider my tap water to be suitable for dwarf shrimps - as a matter of fact its potentially lethal.

Cheers,
Michael
 
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