Diane Wahlstad and biofiltration making plants suffer and causing algae?

[Zeus.]

"Plants use the N of ammonium (not nitrate) to synthesize their proteins.

Well they have Oxygen in abundance during the day. Plants may only use the N, but when we eat Carbs ( and protein when diet is low in carbs) for energy all we are after is the release of energy from the electron change in orbit in the mitochondria within cells, there is normally a convoluted chemical pathway in most living things to get what they need.

Then sometimes what seems the preferred choice of an organism of a compound for its source of its needs its the organisms preferred pathway, eg sugar in our diet is the body's first choice to use for energy for one simple reason, sugar is toxic to body if levels get too high ( and the level isn't that high either).

I have dosed my tank only urea as its source of N for quite some time and had no problems, I did do it drip feed in tank nearly 100 small doses weekly

 

[robinj]

What you have been told is to get an expensive oversized filter, throw away the filter sponges and use Matrix with strong a flow. The filter is super effective in converting ammonium to nitrates which the plants will use. And this is good and the only right way to go.

This was valid in the beginning. She "recommends" HOB filters now (Filter Options These Days?).

Everyone recommending Matrix was marketing hype. I came over this article - Aquarium , which is a comprehension of a forum thread HERE. I can really recommend it to read. The conclusion is simple: nitrification is happening even in empty tank with no filtration at all.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
@robinj thank you for posting this.

She "recommends" HOB filters now (Filter Options These Days?).

This is what the lady herself says in <"APC thread">

......... I don't trust canister filters. The canisters, because they are relatively sealed, can go severely anaerobic. If they clog up with debris, stop flowing, or the power goes off, the outflow of dead bacteria and toxins--once the filter starts back up again-- can kill the fish. It has happened a couple of times to me. Since the AquaClear is not sealed, there's no chance of it becoming anaerobic............Yes, regular cleaning is the key to keeping canister filters safe.

<"Which is definitely"> where I'm <"coming from"> as well.

I came over this article - Aquarium , which is a comprehension of a forum thread HERE. I can really recommend it to read. The conclusion is simple: nitrification is happening even in empty tank with no filtration at all.

Another interesting one. It just reinforces what we've said in various <"pumice">, <"biofilm">, <"oxygen"> and the small <"volume of media actually required"> threads.

I should have also said that <"Marcel"> is a former member of this forum and while we eventually had a bit of a falling out (and he left) I always found his postings really interesting.

cheers Darrel

 

[Matti]

I changed my Dennerle HBO to a Biomaster 250, as I thought it would be a good thing to do, even in a 55l tank.
I have the old media in one basket, the others are as they came in the box.
I would have expected to see some difference in performance, as the Biomaster has 4xtimes the volume and media and double the flow. But non what so ever.
After inserting Tropica the nitrites rise, and it takes the same time to get them back to 0,05.
But the BioMaster is otherwise a great filter (as is the Dennerle).

Luckily I didn't follow the youtube "experts" and throw away the sponges and replace them with something more "pro", would feel now like a total idiot.

 

[robinj]

I should have also said that <"Marcel"> is a former member of this forum and while we eventually had a bit of a falling out (and he left) I always found his postings really interesting.

I discovered his blog randomly and I like that rarely seen scientific-based approach. What to say, people with strong views don't get along well.😀

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

What to say, people with strong views don't get along well

I think that was the issue, some disagreements and a fairly confrontational approach.

Personally, I never had any problem with him at all and I wish he had stayed, because I thought / think he had / has a lot to offer.

cheers Darrel

 

[arcturus]

Everyone recommending Matrix was marketing hype. I came over this article - Aquarium , which is a comprehension of a forum thread HERE. I can really recommend it to read. The conclusion is simple: nitrification is happening even in empty tank with no filtration at all.

In my view, a filter is nothing more than an extension to the aquarium that acts as a refuge for bacteria to colonize. A tank without a filter can have more than enough surfaces to harbour nitrifying bacteria. If that amount of nitrification is sufficient or not mostly depends on bio load and plant mass of the tank. Filters are important not because of nitrification per se but because they promote water circulation and surface agitation (and therefore oxygenation), which are required for nitrification - but one can achieve the same effect with pumps/propellers instead of filters. Filters are mostly relevant for mechanical and chemical filtration and there might be other biological processes that are taking place inside a filter (e.g. decomposition of detritus).

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

...... a filter is nothing more than an extension to the aquarium that acts as a refuge for bacteria to colonize. A tank without a filter can have more than enough surfaces to harbour nitrifying bacteria. If that amount of nitrification is sufficient or not mostly depends on bio load and plant mass of the tank. Filters are important not because of nitrification per se but because they promote water circulation and surface agitation (and therefore oxygenation), which are required for nitrification ......

Exactly that.

..... Filters are mostly relevant for mechanical and chemical filtration and there might be other biological processes that are taking place inside a filter (e.g. decomposition of detritus).

That is the issue right there, I just wish they weren't called <"filters">.

Personally I don't want my <"filter to act as a syphon">, I actively want to keep all the <"organic debris and detritus"> out of the filter.

I want all of the <"mechanical filtration"> to have occurred before the water enters the filter. All I want in the filter are <"dissolved gases">, oxygen, CO2 and ammonia.

After that the only criterion that matters is that oxygen supply <"always exceeds the oxygen demand">.

cheers Darrel

 

[jaypeecee]

Personally, I never had any problem with him at all and I wish he had stayed, because I thought / think he had / has a lot to offer.

Hi Everyone,

I contacted him about a year ago and he seems to have turned his back on the aquatics hobby. I didn't pursue it any further as I thought it right to respect his decision. Still, he has done some great work and made valuable contributions to our hobby.

JPC

 

[jaypeecee]

In my view, a filter is nothing more than an extension to the aquarium that acts as a refuge for bacteria to colonize. A tank without a filter can have more than enough surfaces to harbour nitrifying bacteria.

Hi @arcturus & Everyone,

A few years ago, I had read that light could suppress nitrification. But, at the time, I was unable to obtain any figures to quantify the intensity/spectrum of light that was relevant. So, I just did a quick search and found the following:

"Culture irradiance below 250 μmol m−2 s−1 did not show a significant effect on nitrification activity...".* This is taken from wastewater treatment so, to what extent it is relevant in home aquaria, I do not know. The above irradiance figure is in excess of most/all aquarium lighting - to the best of my knowledge.

I also stumbled across this:

"Nitrifiers are light sensitive, especially toward ultraviolet (UV/ sunlight). Room light has a negative impact on bacterial activity as well. Colonizing the filter is therefore the preferred settlement of the bacteria, as it provides a dark environment. Light exposure (i.e. cleaning the filter) will not cause stress, as the time frame is too short allowing the colony to recuperate within hours"**.

* Influence of light intensity on bacterial nitrifying activity in algal-bacterial photobioreactors and its implications for microalgae-based wastewater treatment

** Nitrifying bacteria - Breaking down aquarium waste

I am very much aware that some aquarists successfully establish a nitrifying bacteria culture by taking a sample of substrate from another tank.

If light does indeed suppress nitrification, then a filter unit - canister or sponge - provides the right environment.

JPC

 

[arcturus]

Interesting articles! At the microscopic scale of bacteria, I believe bacteria would find plenty of shaded areas in most elements of hardscape and substrate, even if those are directly exposed to light. If light is indeed a problem, then it would mainly affect the biofilm colonization on the glass surfaces. A major advantage of the external filter is that the nitrifying bacteria colonies are mostly left undisturbed, contrary to what happens inside the tank due to maintenance and other environmental factors. But then the filter must have suitable conditions for nitrification, which might not be the case when it is packed full of fancy media...

 

[heliophyte]

A major advantage of the external filter is that the nitrifying bacteria colonies are mostly left undisturbed, contrary to what happens inside the tank due to maintenance and other environmental factors.

Which is one of the reasons why some people say you shouldn't clean your substrate too much I suppose.

 

[aec34]

The data extraction would look something like this - just picked out some journals for now..

Hi @erwin123 just chipping in since two of these journals are mine. I did have a little BBA in one of these tanks - but it only appeared on a plant which I bought which came from a CO2 injected tank. I trimmed the affected leaves, and it hasn’t come back so far. 🤔

 

[arcturus]

Which is one of the reasons why some people say you shouldn't clean your substrate too much I suppose.

Not sure if it is because of the bacteria…Disturbing the substrate can release accumulated and unwanted substances into the water column.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Which is one of the reasons why some people say you shouldn't clean your substrate too much I suppose.

I'm not keen on disturbing the substrate, mainly because of the reasons given by Stephan Tanner in <"Aquarium biofiltration">.

At the microscopic scale of bacteria, I believe bacteria would find plenty of shaded areas in most elements of hardscape and substrate, even if those are directly exposed to light.

I'm pretty sure that is right.

Culture irradiance below 250 μmol m−2 s−1 did not show a significant effect on nitrification activity...".* This is taken from wastewater treatment so, to what extent it is relevant in home aquaria, I do not know.

It would be interesting so see if anyone has published on the light sensitivity of <"Ammonia Oxidising Archaea (AOA) and COMAMMOX Nitrospira">. I'll see what I can find. I'd imagine there will be some research, purely because <"photobioreactors">* have been a recent research strand, including in the treatment of (ammonia containing) wastewater and they would need light for the algae.

*S. Akizuki, et al. (2020) "Application of nitrifying granular sludge for stable ammonium oxidation under intensive light," Biochemical Engineering Journal,

160. says
".... This study compared the nitrification activity of dispersed and granular nitrifying sludges in batch assays under a wide range of light intensities. In a dispersed sludge reactor, the original nitrification activity in dark conditions (0 μmol photons m−2 s-1) was 0.85 mg-N g-SS–1 h–1. The activity significantly decreased to 0.43 and 0.25 mg-N g-SS–1 h–1, which correspond to 50 % and 70 % less than in dark condition, with light intensities of 450 and 1600 μmol photons m−2 s-1, respectively. In contrast, the activity in the granular sludge was not significantly inhibited by light exposure...."

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I'll see what I can find.

I'll need time to go through all the papers, but it looks like there should be plenty of them. Hopefully a they will provide a definitive view of just how light sensitive AOB, AOA and Nitrospira spp. are, or possibly just lots of conflicting evidence.

cheers Darrel

 

[jaypeecee]

It would be interesting so see if anyone has published on the light sensitivity of <"Ammonia Oxidising Archaea (AOA) and COMAMMOX Nitrospira">. I'll see what I can find.

Hi @dw1305

Yes, I agree entirely. I'll also have a look. I'm limited to what can be obtained for free. But, if I find something that is available to academia, I'll let you know.

JPC

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi @dw1305

Here's a candidate:

Development of light-shielding hydrogel for nitrifying bacteria to prevent photoinhibition under strong light irradiation

Microalgae-nitrifying bacteria consortia have gained attention because photooxygenation of algae can supply oxygen to bacteria which eliminates the ne…

www.sciencedirect.com

Obviously, the product being described is of minimal interest. And it may not address Nitrospira. But it may contain other useful, relevant information.

JPC

 

[jaypeecee]

Hi again, @dw1305

This may be of more interest:

Effects of light and mass ratio of microalgae and nitrifiers on the rates of ammonia oxidation and nitrate production

This study investigated the effects of microalgae and light on nitrifying bacteria. The oxygen production rates of microalgae were measured at various…

www.sciencedirect.com

I didn't expect to find much. So, rather than drip-feeding them to you, if I find more, I'll make a list.

JPC

 

[tiger15]

What you have been told is to get an expensive oversized filter, throw away the filter sponges and use Matrix with strong a flow. The filter is super effective in converting ammonium to nitrates which the plants will use. And this is good and the only right way to go.

-"In my planted tanks I have been surprised at how little biological filtration is actually required. When I decreased biological filtration (by removing the filter media in the canister filters), I had fewer problems with nitrate accumulation and water acidification."

So too strong bio-filtration makes the plants suffer and cause algae?
Did I do it wrong by installing an Oase Biomaster 250 to my 55l planted tank? Instead of keeping the HBO and just replacing the bio media with a course sponge?
What makes Wahlstad's book interesting that it is the only book about aquariums where the author has real data to back her claims. For e.g the number of scientifical papers of only chapter seven is 88.

I don’t believe that removing bio media in the filter will reduce bio filtration, as there is plenty of beneficial bacteria in the substrate, plant and other surfaces as long as oxygenated water supply is unlimited. I agree that having no or very coarse matrix in a canister filter to promote strong oxygenated flow is better off than having tight media that get clogged up easily. I personally don’t use any canister filter but only HOBs for mechanical and wave maker to promote strong flow.

Is expensive bio media worth it?

Could a heavily planted tank take the main role of biological filtration to the point any other filtration you have would end up becoming mechanical? Yes, I think so. Plants and the substrate. I can see that happen if you have lots of plants relative to livestock and excellent flow throughout...

www.ukaps.org

It’s true that plants can uptake ammonia more efficiently than nitrate, and so do algae. If the soil is too hot in a Walstad setup, it can trigger algae until ammonia generation is subsided. During photo period, plants will gobble up ammonia in completion with bb, but off photo period, bb is the only game in town to detoxify ammonia.

Walstad book cited many references from outdoor ecological studies, but glass box environment is very different from outdoor environment, and direct extrapolation of the results is not always relevant and may lead to wrong conclusion. For example, high nitrate and phosphate is often associated with algal boom in natural water bodies, but not so in planted aquariums.