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Deficiency or Algae?

Thanks @MrClockOff, that's interesting as my water is near enough the same as yours hardness wise. Perhaps its the same issue, I thought a green DC would be all good! This planted tank malarky is hard work haha!
I did have a PH pen but didn't ever get it to work properly (was only a cheap one from Amazon) Can you recommend a decent one?
I have a cheapo from Amazon too and it’s from HM brand. It has only single point of calibration for 7 ph and has just one decimal digit so not very precise.. bought in the rush 😟 But it was enough to find that I had just 0.6 ph drop.. not good at all taking into consideration that my light was on on 100% power. Dialled in CO2 to get 1 ph drop and installed light dimmer to run lights on max 80%. Now I can see some improvements 👍

I have seen a few times people were recommending Hanna brand ph pens which should be good enough in our hard water.
 
So @X3NiTH being an absolute legend has already adjusted for your tap water to get to EI dosing. Your surface agitation is good and the drop checker indicates green. Plants from December last year until now have been deteriorating.
Yeah he's been amazing, such a great help and as you can see he spent countless hours to assist me. But now with a few of the guys saying that its running lean do you think I should up it?
I forgot to say I add 17g of Mg and 8g of KCl dry dosed on WC day to help remineralise

Why so much light for low light plant species?
So initially I was running the Aquasky on its own but from a post on here quite a while ago now it was advised that I up the lighting due to the depth of the tank. I had the two stock EA tubes in the shed so I put them back in
 
@Geoffrey Rea here's the post
 
So initially I was running the Aquasky on its own but from a post on here quite a while ago now it was advised that I up the lighting due to the depth of the tank.
I read that thread last night and think the advise was good, especially regards the spread of light.
The depth of the tank isn't really an issue with your style of scape and height of lights, and has Geffory pointed out the plants you have are mainly low light demanding, maybe they didn't know that.
 
I read that thread last night and think the advise was good, especially regards the spread of light.
The depth of the tank isn't really an issue with your style of scape and height of lights, and has Geffory pointed out the plants you have are mainly low light demanding, maybe they didn't know that.
To be fair my scape and plant mass has completely changed since that post, I was under the impression you needed high/strong lighting to run co2
 
I was under the impression you needed high/strong lighting to run co2

With the species you’ve selected they’re mostly slow burners. This tank is of a similar depth and also has low light species, it has point source lighting and a measly 10 PAR at the substrate:

1621686743799.jpeg


EI with high Co2 and low light works.

The bolbitis in your photo from December 2020 already showed severe blackening of the leaves.

1621688554988.png


Your Pinnatifida was stretched and is one species that doesn’t fit in with the rest of the planting, mainly because of the light requirements to keep it being at odds with everything else. You could attach it to wood high up in the scape to take a punt, but it isn’t guaranteed to work. Pinnatifida is a whole over subject though.

You have jet style outlets so covering the surface with floaters to lessen the light might blow them about a bit. You could drop down to just the tubes or the Aquasky and get Co2 dialled in.

Is that drop checker light green at lights on? Is there improvement to be had in the ramp up and/or injection rate?

Surface agitation may be high between the jets and the eheim skimmer. Is this gassing off Co2 too readily? It could be fine as is, what is your current thoughts?

The plant mass is generally low. You also have a decent amount of stock including some chunky SAE’s. Are you overfeeding your stock?

Maintenance... got an electric toothbrush? You could brush all the BBA off of those rocks. An alternative is ADA Phyton-Git Sol. Switch off your filter and syringe it over the affected surfaces and leave for 10 minutes. It will be dead and if the BBA on the rocks is soft enough, your SAE’s will eat it for you if their feeding has been reduced. Otherwise, scrub and siphon out.

Water changes... definitely a friend through periods like this.

Estimating that the core problems are too much light, inadequate Co2 regime, large amounts of organic waste from fish and decaying plants, inadequate oxygenation across the 24 hours as your plants aren’t performing.

Remedy wise, lessen light, tune in Co2 to an optimum, evict the BBA, water change the system frequently for a while, monitor new growth and reduce feeding to a minimum temporarily.

Additional measures could include:

  • cutting out leaves that are beyond redemption
  • making sure rhizomes are secured to hardscape appropriately for your epiphytes
  • seeing if anyone on the forum has spare plants they can donate to get things rolling
  • running night time aeration from lights out to just before Co2 clicks on

You want ample o2 for the system to work, this comes from plants and gas exchange. Running night time aeration during periods of trouble ensures the tank is getting a constant top up to atmospheric equilibrium throughout the night - effectively more o2 than demand. Filter benefits, plants benefit and livestock benefit.

Given you have all that sand real estate available, you could consider temporarily planting out Ceratopteris Thalicroides (water sprite) around the perimeter in the sand. Cheap as chips, it grows aggressively and will work as a great oxygenator in the interim.
 
Thanks for the detailed reply @Geoffrey Rea :)

The H.Pinnatifida has now gone, it lost all of its leaves but grew above the surface and seemed to do well, Its since been removed as it was pointless having just a stem in view!
Re the lighting I think I'll try just the Aquasky as it ramps up and down, the tubes are only on and off. I think that shocks the fish which I don't really want.

The drop checker is green but not light/lime green at lights on, I'd say it gets a little lighter towards the end of the photoperiod.
co2 on at 14:00
Lights on 16:00
co2 off 20:30
Lights off 23:00
Is there improvement to be had? I honestly don't know, I'm guessing from the current state of things I guess so yeah.

what is your current thoughts?
I don't know!! That's my honest answer, I'm not gonna pretend I know what I'm doing because I don't. This is my first proper scape and its only been a couple of years since I got into fishkeeping in general. My current thoughts are that I know something is not right but I don't know where to start. Or didn't until this thread anyway!
I use my filter outlet for agitation and flow, if I decrease the agitation I also decrease the flow. I suppose a small powerhead might be an option to reduce surface agitation but keep a good flow?


I feed the fish one block of frozen food (all different foods) each night. Every other night I'll put in an algae wafer or a nettle tube for the bottom feeders and shrimp. Sometimes I'll throw in some bug bites around lunch time but generally I think I'm a bit tight on feeding. I have 2 SAE, one is getting quite a size but I wouldn't say Its fat, Just a big boy!

I haven't got an electric toothbrush but strangely enough the mrs got one the other week and I jokingly suggested that I could use it for the rocks! Is it BBA then? one rock looks like its a dark red colour.

tune in Co2 to an optimum
Is the best way, or more accurate should I say, to use a PH pen to get the 1PH drop? I think I've been very naive to the this as a whole but with the co2 I've been thinking the DC is green so all is good. Obviously it's not that simple!
You want ample o2 for the system to work
What is the best way to achieve this? Again I've probably been naive to this but I thought good surface agitation was the best way to ensure o2 in the tank?


Thanks again matey, much appreciated :)
 
The drop checker is green but not light/lime green at lights on, I'd say it gets a little lighter towards the end of the photoperiod.
co2 on at 14:00
Lights on 16:00
co2 off 20:30
Lights off 23:00
Is there improvement to be had? I honestly don't know, I'm guessing from the current state of things I guess so yeah.

All the players involved with your application of Co2:

  • Plant mass
  • Surface agitation (affect on surface tension from outflow, skimmer)
  • Co2 duration period
  • Injection rate
  • Dissolved o2 concentration
  • Light intensity
  • Light duration
  • Temperature
Change any one of them and your optimal co2 will shift. Before you start adjusting co2, make your mind up what you want the co2 to be in sync with. If you want to reduce the lighting for example, do that before starting on fine tuning to make your efforts worthwhile.

You are using a Co2 Art regulator which is pretty forgiving with 1/8 turns of the needle valve when adjusting injection rate. Start with a 1/8 turn and be available to keep an eye on the tank that day. Watch your fish, watch your plants. Watch the colour of the drop checker throughout the photoperiod, take hourly photo's with your phone. If it goes well with no discernible difference after a couple of days, go for another 1/8 turn. Your exit from this strategy will be evident, fish and plants don't lie.
 
Afternoon @Geoffrey Rea

So moving forward I'm going to start with trying to light the tank with the Aquasky only, the tubes will be off. I have an Oase air pump so I'll set that for 23:00 until 14:00. I'll also look into getting some Ceratopteris for extra o2.

With regards to the filter outlet and surface agitation I'll try adjusting the outlet so its not rippling the surface as much, then I can try and keep the flow around the tank, should I only do this when the co2 is on? When the co2 turns off I'll adjust it back up again?

Also I know you've said to adjust one thing at a time but should i up the co2 slightly as the DC is still not light green? Or leave that for a while and see how it goes with the above amendments?

Thanks again mate :)
 
Yes I love that rock too, I'd be chuffed to have something like that in my tank, it has a really nice marine texture. Let's be honest, sometimes algae looks really nice. Not all evil!
 
I'll try adjusting the outlet so its not rippling the surface as much, then I can try and keep the flow around the tank, should I only do this when the co2 is on? When the co2 turns off I'll adjust it back up again?

Also I know you've said to adjust one thing at a time but should i up the co2 slightly as the DC is still not light green? Or leave that for a while and see how it goes with the above amendments?



Consistency. If you’re going to set your outlet horizontally and surface agitation is good, keep it that way. Maintain the water height so surface agitation isn’t varying throughout the week. If you’re going to lower the lighting, do that and stick with it for now. If you can achieve a decent amount of injection in two hours prior to lights on, keep that ramp up at two hours. You’re then down to a single variable, using the needle valve.

I know there’s threads upon threads where we bleat on about Co2 application, but getting it right is simply about being disciplined, methodical and observant.

Once familiar with a system where you’ve seen your plants at their best you’ll notice when things aren’t quite right. Sometimes it’s as simple as a tweak of the needle valve to get the concentration up again as the tank gains plant mass. Other times you might just go over but the injection rate will be good in another weeks growth, you then cap the upper limit by ever so slightly angling the outlet up to increase agitation until then. But it’s a lot easier to get the desired outcome when you are sure it’s just one change at a time.
 
That is a lovely photo, it looks like a red velvet cushion. I really like it, but I understand that might not be every bodies view.
Yes I love that rock too, I'd be chuffed to have something like that in my tank, it has a really nice marine texture. Let's be honest, sometimes algae looks really nice. Not all evil!

I feel quite proud of my rock now 😂 Its the only one that's like that out of about 22kg of them! At least I can grow something right haha!
 
I'll report back in a couple of weeks or so, Hopefully with some good news!

Please do James. Your EI is good and lower light will make a balance with Co2 easier to hit.

Up to you, but if you fancy a wedge of bolbitis to replace the one you had in the middle again give me a shout. Help bump up plant mass and shade some of your anubias. It would be this one:

1621846041201.png


About 10 inch diameter bush and should be easy to glue to the wood in the centre of your scape with the water level dropped at WC.

If your plan for the scape has changed don’t feel obliged, no worries either way.
 
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