Dealing with GSA, hair-fuzz algae since beginning.

[riioKen]

Hi,
Unfortunately I'm having a lot of problems with algae.

I tried not fertilizing, increasing or decreasing the light intensity, I even rescaped the tank and added AS from Tropica. I'll give you a little knowledge of the parameters of my aquarium.

1) The tank is 80l
2) May 2023
3) Oase Biomaster Thermo 600
4) Chihiros WRGB2 Slim60 (70% for 7h)
5) Tropica Aquarium soil
7) APT3 Complete 2ml x day
8) WC 50% every 7 days with tap water (tap water param - pH 7.6, kh8, tds 107)
9) Rotala macrandra, AR rosanervig, rotala Wallichi, egeria densa, Montecarlo, hygrophila araguaia, limnophila hippuridoides, rotala orange juice, rotala h'ra, bacopa caroliniana, bucephalandra Kedagang purple, crypto flamingo
10) I use it but I have a CO2 profile acquired in 2 days of constant checking. pH before CO2 on 7.4 (8.0 degassed), CO2 goes on at 07:00, the light at 09:00, when light is on the pH is 6.7, after 1h it drop to pH 6.6 and stays at this level for the entire photoperiod.

11) 12 celestial pearl danio, 10 ember tetra, 6 otocinclus, 2 amano shrimp, 4 pygmy Cory.
The tank has a surface skimmer.
Water test:
No ammonia and nitrites
5-10ppm nitrates
Usually 0.10-0.25ppm po4, I tried to raise it to 1ppm with KH2PO4 but hair algae blooms,
kh 3, around 10gh

the egeria densa is uprooted because I need to move it somewhere

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I tried not fertilizing, increasing or decreasing the light intensity

How do you feel about snails? <"I'm a fan"> and they will help with the green algae.

APT3 Complete 2ml x day

I also think you may have problems with your fertiliser, some-one will know, but I think you might need <"a bit more"> when you are adding CO2. I think we are somewhere in <"Liebig's limiting nutrient"> territory.

I also think that iron (Fe) availability is limited, I say this because of the <"pale tips"> to the Rotala spp. etc.

cheers Darrel

 

[SteveMid]

In my experience, the addition of some floating plants and more fast growing stem plants never does any harm when battling problems with algae and if you are not keen on the look they can always be reduced/removed later when you feel you are winning

 

[riioKen]

I also think you may have problems with your fertiliser, some-one will know, but I think you might need <"a bit more"> when you are adding CO2. I think we are somewhere in <"Liebig's limiting nutrient"> territory.

Hi,
honestly, i jumped on the forum of tom barr, and like you have already said, i unsderstood that probably the problems was exactly a limited macro nutrient. My suspect is Po4, because, based on my Sera Po4 kit, in the last week (tested daily) after dosing apt3, it was 0.1ppm but in the evening (sometimes even mid day) the reads was 0 po4.
I bought APT3 (and tropica soil) because i would achieve the beautiful "deep red" of my red plants. This is still my first target but i feel that im losing my battle vs algae, so i switched to a fully EI dosing 2 days ago, right now, even if all my reds turn green, i don't mind it, when the algae are gone, and the tank stabilize with its growing rates, i'll slowly decrease my nitrates availability in the tank and im planning to do it with my own ferts (i have bought a dry salts kit, it has KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4, Fe, traces).

Im not dosing anymore "following" instructions but instead im testing water and when i see that my po4 decrease (my plants consume 1ppm+ of po4 daily, so i have decided to do 1 bottle with only kh2po4. I have dosed 2ppm po4 this morning, an entire macro solution, so kh2po4 + kno3 + k2so4, so around 2.5ppm in a day, and now after the photoperiod im around 0.5 - 1ppm of po4).
Im checking daily Po4 and when it is lacking, i'll dose it.

In my experience, the addition of some floating plants and more fast growing stem plants never does any harm when battling problems with algae and if you are not keen on the look they can always be reduced/removed later when you feel you are winning

About more fast growing plants, i don't have any space to fill. the tank is almost full. Floating plants are amazing but i don't want to have to use them as necessity or as "last chance" for battle algae, i want to achieve stability without floating plants.

I also think that iron (Fe) availability is limited, I say this because of the <"pale tips"> to the Rotala spp. etc.

My micro mix has only traces and MgSO4, should i add Fe to the mix? (as source of Fe i have Fe DTPA, should i add it to a different bottle or can i mix it with micro?

i Noticed some curling leaves too.


edit:
The algae bloom that i've accused its beacuse the algae are still present in tank, more nutrients for plants means more nutreints for algae too, and considering that my plants are suffering, probably its normal tht the algae that are present are growing, but after 2-3 days that im dosing Po4, the glass is still clean from GSA, the already present hair algae are growing though. Seems that i'm on good track, i need more days, 3 are too few

i have increased Co2 at around 33 - 42ppm, im watching livestock closely, for now seems fine

 

[_Maq_]

my plants consume 1ppm+ of po4 daily

If you're losing 1 ppm of PO4 daily, it does not mean in the least that it's your plants which consume it.
Algae are the obvious culprit. But not only "green microbes" but also the others are hungry for phosphorus - you feed them generously, surely you do.
Then there are some more problems with phosphates. When they meet with dissolved iron (chelated, typically), they create a FePO4 precipitate. They may also form insoluble compounds with other transition metals (Mn, Zn, Cu, Ni), often also with calcium or magnesium.
Nevertheless, if you measure zero phosphates, it does not mean in the least that your plants starve for phosphorus. In the substrate with many bacteria present, all those insoluble and inaccessible compounds of phosphorus may dissolve. In fact, in nature almost all phosphorus is bound within the substrate and roots are the predominant venue through which plants acquire phosphorus. ...
...
... Only algae can't.

 

[riioKen]

Algae are the obvious culprit. But not only "green microbes" but also the others are hungry for phosphorus - you feed them generously, surely you do.

I can clearly see difference between today and 2-3 days ago. I scraped GSA from the glass and left on purpose some zone with it, i did some "holes" in the zone affected by GSA and entirely removed it from the rest of the tank, till today (usually Sunday is the maintenance day) i don't see GSA expanding, same thing on plants leaves, i have some bucephalandra, as slow growers they are very affected by GSA, i removed all the leaves badly attacked by GSA and left some with few GSA pin on them, i don't see GSA expanding there either.

I see some strange things too, for example, my rotala macrandra are acting weird, the leaves has holes and seems "dissolving" both suggests nitrates and potassium deficit but its impossible, i have around 30ppm of NO3 (KNO3 used) and i dosed plenty KH2PO4 in the tank (my macro solution has K2SO4 too in it).

Nevertheless, if you measure zero phosphates, it does not mean in the least that your plants starve for phosphorus

You're right, maybe, but GSA was my nightmare when PO4 readings were at 0 or very low

 

[riioKen]

I've noticed those symptoms. The holes seems K deficiency but how is it possible? I'm dosing K with KNO3, KH2PO4 and K2SO4, I should have around 30ppm, an overdose of potassium can cause this?

 

[_Maq_]

maybe, but GSA was my nightmare when PO4 readings were at 0 or very low

A few years ago, I performed quite a drastic experiment with phosphate-removing medium. It has made the tank free of any algae (no GSA!), and water crystal clear. Before long, though, my plants suffered, too. So, such media must be used with caution.

 

[riioKen]

A few years ago, I performed quite a drastic experiment with phosphate-removing medium. It has made the tank free of any algae (no GSA!), and water crystal clear. Before long, though, my plants suffered, too. So, such media must be used with caution.

The only thing that I have in the filter are Seachem matrix and purigen.

 

[_Maq_]

The holes seems K deficiency

No, the holes do not signal deficiency of potassium.
This issue has been discussed on this forum several times and it seems that many members believe the same - that the holes in leaves are caused by something else. There's no unity, though, what exactly is the cause.

 

[riioKen]

No, the holes do not signal deficiency of potassium.
This issue has been discussed on this forum several times and it seems that many members believe the same - that the holes in leaves are caused by something else. There's no unity, though, what exactly is the cause.

Well, I'm "new" to the forum, if it had happened to you, how would you have acted? If it's not a lack of K then I don't know how to proceed honestly.

 

[riioKen]

No, the holes do not signal deficiency of potassium.

Another thing that I've noticed, the leaves of Rotala macrandra are extremely thin and at touch are like tissue paper. Is macrandra like this?

 

[_Maq_]

Is macrandra like this?

Yes, Rotala macrandra is a very "soft" species and sensitive to any manipulation. But on the market there are several strains/cultivars/varieties which differ in size of leaves, their coloration, and their softness.

 

[PARAGUAY]

A few years ago, I performed quite a drastic experiment with phosphate-removing medium. It has made the tank free of any algae (no GSA!), and water crystal clear. Before long, though, my plants suffered, too. So, such media must be used with caution.

A few years ago had exactly that happen.LFS recommended a Phosphate remover(no algae written on the box)tank changed to crystals clear ,plants look healthy but it was short lived and didn't solve anything long term. Care with fertilizing ,water changes, good tank husbandry the way to go IMO

 

[riioKen]

A few years ago had exactly that happen.LFS recommended a Phosphate remover(no algae written on the box)tank changed to crystals clear ,plants look healthy but it was short lived and didn't solve anything long term. Care with fertilizing ,water changes, good tank husbandry the way to go IMO

I tried to dose at "suggested" dosage the APT3 which seems widely appreciated, I always had GSA due to this fert, I tried to decrease dosages but it didn't solve anything.

Maybe the way to go, is to use APT3 and an extra 1ppm of po4 daily?

Now I'm using full EI dosage, and in a week I see a decrease in GSA, some plants seems "fine" but macrandra is suffering.

 

[LMuhlen]

During my battle against GSA, it was suggested to me that the mechanism through which the increase of phosphates would control GSA is actually to precipitate excess iron from the water column, which would be the actual reason for the GSA explosion.

whatever the case may be, what I see in this forum is a significant number of people defending that not only “more is better” for nutrients isn’t true, but it may also be very wrong. The way I see it nowadays is that excess nutrients for sensitive plants is better only for tanks with excessive light and CO2, when looking for maximum growth rate. Maybe.