• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

Cycling a new tank with the old one still running, anyway to speed it up?

Going back to the original question - what I normally do is take a sponge filler from the establish tank and move it to the new one - if i don't have one - i put one in a few weeks before setting up the new tank. I then take a few fishes from the establish tank and move them to the new one - and test the water for the first few days. I will sometime get a spike as high as .5 ammonia and if i see it above 0.25 i will put in a few drops of prime to neutralize. This seems to work fairly reliably and after the first week the ammonia become stable at 0.
 
Just to echo Darrel I would also advise against this @Muso1981

To give you a little background and I'm not overly proud to say this but over the years I've done numerous fish in and fishless cycles, so have a little practice at doing this.
Muso1981 said:
I just did a test on the tank and you were right this soil does release ammonia, I'm shocked as it's reading pretty damn high!
Click to expand...
Muso1981 said:
Today I tested the water and it was 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, so I'm going to put fish in there tomorrow with some start start. The Tropica soil only required 1 water change to sort it out.
Click to expand...

So you've done a big water change and removed any testable levels of ammonia?
The problem with these substrates is the fact you have no control on the amount of ammonia leaching in to the tank, you'll probably find tomorrow that more ammonia has been released and is in the water column, your test kit might pick it up or it might not.
That's why the general guidance is to do large daily water changes for at least a couple of weeks and add plants from the outset, they help mop up the ammonia alongside the filter cycling.

Muso1981 said:
My aim is to add them to the tank once cycled but there won't be anything for them to hide behind for a while so it will hopefully reset their behaviour.
Click to expand...

I can guarantee you that the new filter won't have cycled in 8 days.

I've added fish after a two week fishless cycle thinking all was well and slowly but surely the nitrite levels start to creep up, you then find yourself fire fighting with multiple daily water changes, loading the tank with prime and generaly getting stressed about it for another two weeks whilst awaiting for nitrates to appear and save the day, if you're lucky you only lose the odd fish!

The problem you're going to have is putting already stressed fish into a tank that's not cycled, with substrate that's leaching ammonia. Not preaching but this really is a bad idea.
 
Hi, tested again this morning and 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites. 2 days since I did a water change, I'm finding it hard to understand why I can't add the fish and the sure start? I will be doing the tests daily with the fish in and if it gets high I will transfer them back into the original tank. As I mentioned earlier I'm not adding any plants until a bit later as I was to try and reset the Gouramis behaviour, this is one of the reasons I'm upgrading the tank.
Im not saying it has cycled in 8 days but I it doesn't seem that there is any ammonia or nitrites in the tank according to my test.
 
If you waterchanged out the ammonia from the substrate (and I don't remember tropica producing much when I set mine up), the reason you have zero ammonia and nitrite is because nothing is producing ammonia. As soon as you put a source of ammonia in there i.e. fish - you will have ammonia but you have nothing to deal with it because you have a brand new filter.

Are you sure it's not possible to move the filter media from old to new? Most filters you can stuff sponges where you like - you can even take a sponge out of an old filter and run it on the intake of a new if you can't physically fit it inside.
 
Hi Tam, when I did my water change on the old tank I took out a bit of water put it into a bucket then cleaned out the older filters into that. I then put the new filters into that bucket , swished them around and left for about 30 minutes. I then put that dirty water into the new tank along with the new dirty filters. Hopefully this will help things along. Also a load of snails hiding in the filter have gone into the new tank.
I suppose I could cut up one of the old filters to make it fit, but when I looked at the filters they seemed pretty dirty so I'm hoping all that good bacteria has gone in there.
 
Muso1981 said:
The old tank is a juwel so fixed filter and I need to keep that in the tank as it's well established, with lots of plants, fish and shrimp. The new tank is a fluval so I can move the filter where I like.

Something else I mentioned is that I want to add some fish before plants as I have 3 gold gourami who constantly hide in the current tank and this is because they were constantly attacked by a Molly for a while. Before the Molly was in there they would be social fish and would hang around the surface but since the Molly attacked them they constantly hide at the bottom of the tank. They have been like this for about 6 months since the Molly was removed so their behaviour isn't changing. My aim is to add them to the tank once cycled but there won't be anything for them to hide behind for a while so it will hopefully reset their behaviour.
Click to expand...

I hope you don’t think I’m being overly blunt here, but I’m failing to understand why you think adding three fish that are already showing signs of distress and shyness, from a tank that presumably provides them at least some cover and places to feel secure, to a completely open and bare glass box prison?

Nothing in what you are suggesting has the welfare and wellbeing of the fish as the primary concern, which is precisely what you should be focusing on. You have a duty to care to the fish to provide the best environment you can for them, and an empty tank isn’t it.

By far your better plan would be improving their sense of security by installing all hardscape, and planting the tank heavily. You can then look to increasing the quantity of them to 6 fish which should help reduce their shyness.
 
Hi all,
Muso1981 said:
..... days since I did a water change, I'm finding it hard to understand why I can't add the fish and the sure start? I will be doing the tests daily with the fish in and if it gets high I will transfer them back into the original tank. As I mentioned earlier I'm not adding any plants until a bit later .............. I'm not saying it has cycled in 8 days but I it doesn't seem that there is any ammonia or nitrites in the tank according to my test......
Click to expand...
You don't have to take any notice of this, but it is honestly the truth.

Traditionally people have looked on the nitrifying bacteria in the filter as essential and plants as decoration, rather than the plants and microbes forming a system with <"much greater potential for nitrification">. The advantage of using plant growth as a measure of whether the tank is fish safe is that you can see the plants. You can't see the filter microbes or the amount of ammonia (NH3) in the tank water.

"Watching the plants" means that you aren't <"reliant on test kit results">, plenty of healthy plant growth = fish safe it is as simple as that.
Muso1981 said:
As I mentioned earlier I'm not adding any plants until a bit later as I was to try and reset the Gouramis behaviour, this is one of the reasons I'm upgrading the tank.
Click to expand...
Wookii said:
but I’m failing to understand why you think adding three fish that are already showing signs of distress and shyness, from a tank that presumably provides them at least some cover and places to feel secure, to a completely open and bare glass box prison?
Click to expand...
Same for me, basically <"the more cover you have"> the happier your fish are.

cheers Darrel
 
Muso1981 said:
The old tank is a juwel so fixed filter and I need to keep that in the tank as it's well established, with lots of plants, fish and shrimp. The new tank is a fluval so I can move the filter where I like.

Something else I mentioned is that I want to add some fish before plants as I have 3 gold gourami who constantly hide in the current tank and this is because they were constantly attacked by a Molly for a while. Before the Molly was in there they would be social fish and would hang around the surface but since the Molly attacked them they constantly hide at the bottom of the tank. They have been like this for about 6 months since the Molly was removed so their behaviour isn't changing. My aim is to add them to the tank once cycled but there won't be anything for them to hide behind for a while so it will hopefully reset their behaviour.
Click to expand...
I would add plants before fish. The order that I add is plants, then nerite snails, then shrimp, and finally some fish. As Darrel said wait until the plants are starting to thrive before you think about adding fish, cycling is a process that you don't want to rush.
 
Hi, adding more fish isn't really an option as the reason I got the bigger tank was to give them more space. As I mentioned before they were very social Gouramis then they got bullied which has made them hide all the time. Adding in loads of stuff for them to hide behind will mean that they will continue to hide. I don't see how giving them a few days without cover as being cruel? I mean it would be a week max before I add significant cover and in a fish shop they have loads of fish in glass prisons and ultimately this is where all of our fish come from.
 
Muso1981 said:
Adding in loads of stuff for them to hide behind will mean that they will continue to hide. I don't see how giving them a few days without cover as being cruel? I mean it would be a week max before I add significant cover and in a fish shop they have loads of fish in glass prisons and ultimately this is where all of our fish come from.
Click to expand...
The fish are hiding because they're stressed or feel threatened in some way, changing this behaviour could be done by simply moving a few things around or adding items in their current set up. Move a stone from one side and put it on the other, maybe add a plant pot to where the stone was, if you've any wood in there turn it through 90~180 degrees if possible, add a cave.
Basically by changing things a bit it could be enough to encourage their behaviour to change.
It could also get you away from rushing your new tank set up.

You've been given some really helpful advice in this thread and I'd like to hope you listen to at least some of it.
Nobody's trying to judge you, we just don't want you making the same mistakes as we've either seen, or like me made in the past.
 
Muso1981 said:
Today I tested the water and it was 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, so I'm going to put fish in there tomorrow with some start start. The Tropica soil only required 1 water change to sort it out.
Click to expand...
I ran mine for two week from new with tropica soil and plants, did two 50% water changes testing both times after a couple of daysammonia tested 0% on both occasions so i introduced 5 fish yesterday, up to now ever thinking seem to be going ok 🤞 I'll test again tonight.
 
Hi @TimmyTP that's interesting, so you saw no ammonia at all from the soil? I must admit I've not noticed much either, 4 days on from 1 water change and still no ammonia reading. Maybe I'm gonna have a big spike at some point? Good luck with the tank, what size is it?
 
Glad to hear it, the early stages of setting up a tank is quite stressful isn't it? I'm still reading 0 ammonia, the soil doesn't seem to be releasing ammonia at all.
 
This procedure below will help!

Using stem plants as a filtering aid at Start Up!

The subject of using fast-growing stem plants as part of a filtering aid has cropped up a few times recently. This idea has been around for a long time so not new, it has benefits, especially for a new setup. 1. Improves water quality. 2. Reduces excess light. 3. Reduces diatoms. 4. Reduces...
www.ukaps.org www.ukaps.org
hoggie
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top