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Creepy Hollow
- Thread starter Kogre
- Start date
I've not seen any additional fry, and chunky is still seemingly chunky.
The fry are bigger now, around 5-7mm. It's pretty nice to see how dedicated the mothers are to keeping threats away. The father comes along and tries to help but gets his face tail slapped away.
I had 6 otocinclus delivered yesterday. It's like they didn't miss a beat, they settled in the tank almost immediately after acclimation. They even try to school with the tetra. Sometimes when they inadvertently approach a mother and her brood, they'll get nipped at a bit, and they sort of dart around the same vicinity almost confused until they eventually do swim away. A really nice addition to the tank.
The double red spends most of his time in hiding. I've ordered a couple more that are adults to help spread the aggression.
I had a few hygrophila pinnatifida delivered on Tuesday. I left it to float for the most part until today (some is still floating while I figure out where best to place it). I love the texture of the leaves of this plant and think its' addition to the tank is a welcome one. I'm not committed with what I have done with it so will play around with a few ideas.
The swords seem to have found their footing, with some leaves changing texture/pattern and soaring towards the top (well... relatively soaring...).
The sag continues to explode everywhere, with runners shooting off and coming through.
I've just cleaned the pre-filter on both filters and replaced the floss. I probably shouldn't leave it so long till I do it next time. No excuse really considering how easy the pre-filters are on the Biomasters.
There are still places gagging for more narrow leaf java ferns. I will order some in a few months.
Sorry for the schoolboy error of the reflection of light from under the curtain onto the radiator... this was not long after water change, hence the bubbles. Seems more settled and clear now.
The fry are bigger now, around 5-7mm. It's pretty nice to see how dedicated the mothers are to keeping threats away. The father comes along and tries to help but gets his face tail slapped away.
I had 6 otocinclus delivered yesterday. It's like they didn't miss a beat, they settled in the tank almost immediately after acclimation. They even try to school with the tetra. Sometimes when they inadvertently approach a mother and her brood, they'll get nipped at a bit, and they sort of dart around the same vicinity almost confused until they eventually do swim away. A really nice addition to the tank.
The double red spends most of his time in hiding. I've ordered a couple more that are adults to help spread the aggression.
I had a few hygrophila pinnatifida delivered on Tuesday. I left it to float for the most part until today (some is still floating while I figure out where best to place it). I love the texture of the leaves of this plant and think its' addition to the tank is a welcome one. I'm not committed with what I have done with it so will play around with a few ideas.
The swords seem to have found their footing, with some leaves changing texture/pattern and soaring towards the top (well... relatively soaring...).
The sag continues to explode everywhere, with runners shooting off and coming through.
I've just cleaned the pre-filter on both filters and replaced the floss. I probably shouldn't leave it so long till I do it next time. No excuse really considering how easy the pre-filters are on the Biomasters.
There are still places gagging for more narrow leaf java ferns. I will order some in a few months.
Sorry for the schoolboy error of the reflection of light from under the curtain onto the radiator... this was not long after water change, hence the bubbles. Seems more settled and clear now.
I'm not sure if this is normal behaviour, and perhaps anyone who is informed can tell me if it is, but one of the females has burrowed a cave under a rock. I think she's priming to lay or may have already done so as she has been fighting with the mother that lives on the left for most of the day. Even watching them joust is interesting, they extend their jaws to make themselves look bigger and then just glance off one another.
I guess these may be related to geophagus so burrowing of sorts should be expected. I'd just never read anything about this kind of behaviour.
I guess these may be related to geophagus so burrowing of sorts should be expected. I'd just never read anything about this kind of behaviour.
Hi all,
I Like half coconuts, you can <"glue moss and ferns to them">.
cheers Darrel
She didn't have a suitable cave (or didn't like the look of the ones you've provided). The like caves with a very narrow entrance, too small for the male to physically enter the cave and low down near the substrate so that they can block the hole up even further.
I Like half coconuts, you can <"glue moss and ferns to them">.
cheers Darrel
100% what @dw1305 said!
Another very aesthetically pleasing and practical option is seedpods, particularly the cariniana pods, because they have a very small opening that the motherfish can just fit in and block any other fish. My apistos spawned in pods, my female went around and checked them all daily before choosing a cariniana pod, and my male also liked to lounge in a large buddha pod sometimes lol. I got some from <blackwateruk.com>, but I went to Crowder's Aquatics a few weeks ago and they have loads <which you can see here>, including the cariniana ones. I also found that all the types of pods get quite hairy and covered in tiny tiny creatures that the very small fry would feed on which was useful too.
Another very aesthetically pleasing and practical option is seedpods, particularly the cariniana pods, because they have a very small opening that the motherfish can just fit in and block any other fish. My apistos spawned in pods, my female went around and checked them all daily before choosing a cariniana pod, and my male also liked to lounge in a large buddha pod sometimes lol. I got some from <blackwateruk.com>, but I went to Crowder's Aquatics a few weeks ago and they have loads <which you can see here>, including the cariniana ones. I also found that all the types of pods get quite hairy and covered in tiny tiny creatures that the very small fry would feed on which was useful too.
Crowders do have an astounding selection of botanicals, not to mention hardscape, which you can see in their shop tour video here (45 seconds in):
It still boggles my mind that they don't have a website!
I may have to pop in there when we are eventually allowed to visit friends in Woking/Guildford.
It still boggles my mind that they don't have a website!
I may have to pop in there when we are eventually allowed to visit friends in Woking/Guildford.
Hello. Just re-read this thread from the start. Very enlightening and pertinent to my own new start up. Just shows how helpful this forum is.
One query. Do you have any sort of surface skimming?
I have just installed a skim-2 skimmer from APS having deliberated over other similar models versus skimming filter intake pipes. It appears to to be working excellently and great value for a tenner, and making more appreciative of this forum as it seemed to be the consensus recommendation. Pic shows it tucked away in the back corner.
One query. Do you have any sort of surface skimming?
I have just installed a skim-2 skimmer from APS having deliberated over other similar models versus skimming filter intake pipes. It appears to to be working excellently and great value for a tenner, and making more appreciative of this forum as it seemed to be the consensus recommendation. Pic shows it tucked away in the back corner.
Attachments
To be honest when I put the tank together I didn't expect or consider any breeding, so making caves wasn't something I planned or designed into putting the scape together. The hollow itself is more of a lurking junction with numerous entrances and exits so that is serving its function in that respect. I'm not even sure how the other females spawned. They may also have done the same thing. If that is what they choose to do and is something they're comfortable with, I might just leave it as it is. Thank you for the insight though, it tells me I have yet another batch of fry incoming... I'm going to have to start laying traps to catch them as the tank will be over run with them otherwise.
@Wookii Wow just watching that video triggered me into wanting to buy more hardscape for another setup. I'm fighting the urge for now... >_<
Hi @Ian61 thank you for taking the time to go through this journal, I appreciate it. The skimmers I had were on stainless steel inlets that were far too short (but very aesthetically pleasing) to reach the lower depths of the aquarium so I ended up ditching them and going back to using the ones that came with the filter, only I ended up extending them to reach closer to the substrate using a spare pipe I bought. When I didn't run an airstone, I noticed biofilm accumulation so I've started to run one 24/7 (for now) while I'm dumping baby brine shrimp into the tank as I also have the hatchery connected to an air pump and running anyway. The airstone keeps the biofilm forming (at the very least, I'm not seeing it) as it breaks the surface when the bubbles pop. I also have a ton of plants floating so skimming just meant more maintenance with removing stuck plants/decaying matter from the skimmers. As yours looks to be easily removable and you don't appear to have floating plants, you won't face the same issues I did.
@Wookii Wow just watching that video triggered me into wanting to buy more hardscape for another setup. I'm fighting the urge for now... >_<
Hi @Ian61 thank you for taking the time to go through this journal, I appreciate it. The skimmers I had were on stainless steel inlets that were far too short (but very aesthetically pleasing) to reach the lower depths of the aquarium so I ended up ditching them and going back to using the ones that came with the filter, only I ended up extending them to reach closer to the substrate using a spare pipe I bought. When I didn't run an airstone, I noticed biofilm accumulation so I've started to run one 24/7 (for now) while I'm dumping baby brine shrimp into the tank as I also have the hatchery connected to an air pump and running anyway. The airstone keeps the biofilm forming (at the very least, I'm not seeing it) as it breaks the surface when the bubbles pop. I also have a ton of plants floating so skimming just meant more maintenance with removing stuck plants/decaying matter from the skimmers. As yours looks to be easily removable and you don't appear to have floating plants, you won't face the same issues I did.
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I'd like to ask the community about the value of TDS meters.
I've been wondering whether it would be useful to baseline my tap and tank post water change, and monitor over the week to see whether I can see any trends to what is happening in the tank.
If there is value in this, are there any cheapish options out there that anyone can recommend or is it a case of you get what you pay for with more consistent and accurate readings from something pricier?
OR is it a waste of time and just something that will needlessly cause worry over nothing?
I've been wondering whether it would be useful to baseline my tap and tank post water change, and monitor over the week to see whether I can see any trends to what is happening in the tank.
If there is value in this, are there any cheapish options out there that anyone can recommend or is it a case of you get what you pay for with more consistent and accurate readings from something pricier?
OR is it a waste of time and just something that will needlessly cause worry over nothing?
I think its useful to have one, particularly when starting out or using RO water and the like. I have this one:
Amazon product ASIN B07V7C122X
Though its gone up 50% in price since I bought it! 😳
That said, I've not really used it for a long time, and I think if you do large weekly water changes, you don't need to test regularly.
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
I think <"they are useful"> for giving a conductivity (TDS) <"datum range you can use a baseline">. The <"other advantage"> is that even a cheap low range meter (~£50) will give you an accurate reading and doesn't continually <"need re-calibrating">.
cheers Darrel
I saw that the first mother had "lost" her brood, with only two or three fry in the general vicinity wondering around aimlessly and trying to keep hidden. Then I saw that the second mother had in fact somehow stolen the majority of the brood! I can't tell from counting as there are far too many plants that hide them but I can tell from the size of the fry, the first mothers fry were a little larger now the second mother has a broad range of sizes, with some of them too large to be her own.
These fish have certainly not failed to amaze.
These fish have certainly not failed to amaze.
Yes this is not unheard of 😀
They sure are fascinating fish
You've got so much fascinating behaviour happening wow!!
I can't remember where I found it now, but somewhere online I read that new mother apistos sometimes steal/share babies, because the younger fry learn to read the signals from their mothers better from older fry (compared to on their own), so the young fry have better survival rates. You can tell us if it seems true!
I can't remember where I found it now, but somewhere online I read that new mother apistos sometimes steal/share babies, because the younger fry learn to read the signals from their mothers better from older fry (compared to on their own), so the young fry have better survival rates. You can tell us if it seems true!
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I added 30 Rosy Tetras. They sometimes school with the Rummy Nose Tetras but it's nice to have some movement almost everywhere now. They are pretty interesting to watch, with males dueling one another from time to time. It was the bright red fins and white tips that got me.
Some of the larger/older fry have tried to go back across the tank to the other side. The few that are seen get eaten. For the most part the tetra leave them alone and seem more curious than anything. Their mother has stood down from guarding the territory. The few that have made it just fend for themselves hiding amongst the plants. I'm not feeding BBS everyday like I was, more like every other day. I could be wrong but I think they've started eating any food particles that come their way. Some of the fry have tiny flecks of iridescence on their gills/sides but their bodies are mostly still clear. I've seen some do the typical soil sifting. The other mother is still doing well with her (extended) brood being guarded in the front left corner of the tank.
The largest female has gone into hiding. She's the only female with iridescent facial markings.
The juvenile male double red has been eating well and his tail is almost completely recovered. He's growing well and the other two double reds don't bat an eyelid at him. The aggression seems to have mostly subsided in the tank, at least for now.
The two largest males that were added have settled in really well. The larger of the two sometimes chases the other away but neither of them have chewed up tails or split fins. The larger of the two has been christened Matt Damon. Because this:
He has a large gob. I'll see if I can get any decent pictures of him.
Some of the larger/older fry have tried to go back across the tank to the other side. The few that are seen get eaten. For the most part the tetra leave them alone and seem more curious than anything. Their mother has stood down from guarding the territory. The few that have made it just fend for themselves hiding amongst the plants. I'm not feeding BBS everyday like I was, more like every other day. I could be wrong but I think they've started eating any food particles that come their way. Some of the fry have tiny flecks of iridescence on their gills/sides but their bodies are mostly still clear. I've seen some do the typical soil sifting. The other mother is still doing well with her (extended) brood being guarded in the front left corner of the tank.
The largest female has gone into hiding. She's the only female with iridescent facial markings.
The juvenile male double red has been eating well and his tail is almost completely recovered. He's growing well and the other two double reds don't bat an eyelid at him. The aggression seems to have mostly subsided in the tank, at least for now.
The two largest males that were added have settled in really well. The larger of the two sometimes chases the other away but neither of them have chewed up tails or split fins. The larger of the two has been christened Matt Damon. Because this:
He has a large gob. I'll see if I can get any decent pictures of him.
Just a few notes and observations this week...
The inlets were filthy and probably reducing flow overall due to the friction. During this weeks water change I detached the inlets and outlets to both filters and cleaned them thoroughly. This changed the colour of the pipework back to the original clear.
I also cleaned the pre filers. These weren't so dirty as I'd cleaned them last week, but still worth going through the exercise during the water change.
I have bunches of amazon swords that are showing growth and sections/whole plants that aren't growing at all. I don't think I'll change anything up just yet but will wait to see if the last plant shows signs or not, and if not I'll probably just do nothing anyway as there probably isn't anything I can do short of shoving more root tabs under the plant.
There are some pretty large fry now, only a handful mind, that are about up to a couple of centimeters long. There are still a load that look like babies. I will continue to feed BBS and microworms every day.
I noticed some hygrophila pinnatifida that had some staghorn algae over it. I removed the affected leaves and tried to pull off the algae to understand the hold it takes... this was nigh on impossible without damaging the leaves.
It has taken hold on other spots closer to the middle of my tank where flow isn't so high. I think I'll either need to rip off the affected leaves or ideally follow some spotting method others are doing so I don't lose plant mass/otherwise healthy leaves.
Overall I'm really happy with the plant growth. The Ludwigia is coming through beautifully, albeit more orange than red, but still it is growing in pretty well. Some of the younger cryptocorynes that I'd planted before the main plants turned up have started to push through which is nice to see. A lot of these weren't just plain green varieties, with willisii, wendtii Brown and Mi oya varieties pushing through like it wasn't a waste of time me planting them at all. I'm really happy with the growth of these. Only a couple of the plants towards the middle of the tank have leaves affected by staghorn algae, the rest are slowly growing in really well.
Aggression seems to change as the days go by. The dominant male likes to chase and bite his competitors and their tails are worse for wear with a couple of them demonstrating splits and missing parts.
Generally, everything is growing in well and I'm really happy with 99% of what I'm seeing.
The inlets were filthy and probably reducing flow overall due to the friction. During this weeks water change I detached the inlets and outlets to both filters and cleaned them thoroughly. This changed the colour of the pipework back to the original clear.
I also cleaned the pre filers. These weren't so dirty as I'd cleaned them last week, but still worth going through the exercise during the water change.
I have bunches of amazon swords that are showing growth and sections/whole plants that aren't growing at all. I don't think I'll change anything up just yet but will wait to see if the last plant shows signs or not, and if not I'll probably just do nothing anyway as there probably isn't anything I can do short of shoving more root tabs under the plant.
There are some pretty large fry now, only a handful mind, that are about up to a couple of centimeters long. There are still a load that look like babies. I will continue to feed BBS and microworms every day.
I noticed some hygrophila pinnatifida that had some staghorn algae over it. I removed the affected leaves and tried to pull off the algae to understand the hold it takes... this was nigh on impossible without damaging the leaves.
It has taken hold on other spots closer to the middle of my tank where flow isn't so high. I think I'll either need to rip off the affected leaves or ideally follow some spotting method others are doing so I don't lose plant mass/otherwise healthy leaves.
Overall I'm really happy with the plant growth. The Ludwigia is coming through beautifully, albeit more orange than red, but still it is growing in pretty well. Some of the younger cryptocorynes that I'd planted before the main plants turned up have started to push through which is nice to see. A lot of these weren't just plain green varieties, with willisii, wendtii Brown and Mi oya varieties pushing through like it wasn't a waste of time me planting them at all. I'm really happy with the growth of these. Only a couple of the plants towards the middle of the tank have leaves affected by staghorn algae, the rest are slowly growing in really well.
Aggression seems to change as the days go by. The dominant male likes to chase and bite his competitors and their tails are worse for wear with a couple of them demonstrating splits and missing parts.
Generally, everything is growing in well and I'm really happy with 99% of what I'm seeing.
Aaaaand we have a third brood. She's sticking to the front corner of the tank, easy to defend with a corner behind her and dense plant cover. However, there are far more fish in the tank than when the other two broods turned up. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, there will naturally be a lot of culling over time with even other fry picking off these little wrigglers. So far I've managed to count a maximum of 10, so there's anywhere between 11 and 102312134 in there.
I swear when these mothers colour up I can't differentiate them from what they looked like before so don't have an idea of which of the females it is, bar a couple of distinctive ones. I don't think this one is one that has previously a mother. The father appears to be one of the two larger double reds. This one isn't the alpha so we'll see how he copes when the alpha turns up. And just as I was typing he turned up... the father just swam away getting chased.
S Repens has new growth, but there are still some lower leaves being disintegrated. I've not pruned any of these off for some time (5th May) so if I don't end up working too long on Saturday I might just give a few of the deader leaves a snip providing I don't get too close to the new brood of fry.
I swear when these mothers colour up I can't differentiate them from what they looked like before so don't have an idea of which of the females it is, bar a couple of distinctive ones. I don't think this one is one that has previously a mother. The father appears to be one of the two larger double reds. This one isn't the alpha so we'll see how he copes when the alpha turns up. And just as I was typing he turned up... the father just swam away getting chased.
S Repens has new growth, but there are still some lower leaves being disintegrated. I've not pruned any of these off for some time (5th May) so if I don't end up working too long on Saturday I might just give a few of the deader leaves a snip providing I don't get too close to the new brood of fry.
I have thought about it 😀
All tetra now take food from my hand. There's a male apostogramma (the father of the original two broods (he's so beat up now)) that'll take it from tweezers. He's growing in confidence so I may be able to start feeding him by hand. Only reason I have been feeding him like this is he is looking extremely gaunt and shredded and has been hanging out close to the surface under the floating plants. Anytime he goes from food one of the other males nips at him or chases him away.
All tetra now take food from my hand. There's a male apostogramma (the father of the original two broods (he's so beat up now)) that'll take it from tweezers. He's growing in confidence so I may be able to start feeding him by hand. Only reason I have been feeding him like this is he is looking extremely gaunt and shredded and has been hanging out close to the surface under the floating plants. Anytime he goes from food one of the other males nips at him or chases him away.
