_Maq_
Member
It's reduction, my friend, Mn (VII) is reduced to Mn (IV).
Copper sulfate is much weaker dye, but yes, it's less reactive that PP.
Yes, I anticipate it will last days. Depending on the arrangement.
-
You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up
Consistency Deficiency
- Thread starter Hufsa
- Start date
Copper sulfate is much weaker dye, but yes, it's less reactive that PP.
Yes, I anticipate it will last days. Depending on the arrangement.
Well shoot.
I also had another suggestion but it appears im fresh out of ferricyanide 🤔🤭
If its likely to take days then this jar monkey better consider carefully where I place the cups, because they shouldnt be moved after having been started I imagine.
Ive taken a few pictures here and there lately that I havent managed to work into a post yet, so ive cropped, resized (for the poor UKAPS server) and will just dump them here with some commentary so I can be done with it 😅
Learn'dings number 1: Glass jar seals can not contain acid. Acid tried to escape by breaking down the seal and metal parts. Naughty acid, tsk tsk. I will get more suitable bottles.
Number 2: If you leave brown sand in a jar with 30% HCL for over a week, you get gray sand.
I found this to be extremely amusing for some reason. The brown sand I have shown a few pictures of earlier is now more or less greyscale.
I suppose I somehow didnt think the HCL would dissolve just about every bit that is responsible for the color of the sand.
Very cool and interesting
It seems that if I want nicely colored natural sand, there is a definite limit to how much I can expose it to without losing something.New tests will be performed with water that is only as acidic as one might expect in a very soft water high tech tank, but no lower.
I found an even nicer sand than the brown one, which has warm golden red/brown tones, very beautiful. More even color and slightly less dark than the brown sand.
Frogbit from kitchen/quarantine tank that gets fed Tropica. In absolutely rude health compared to the main tank frogbit, but if I miss just one dose, pale new leaves appear. So they are doing quite well, but they are close to limited in certain areas.
One of the few sand snails that survived the terrible shipping disaster. 4 out of 150 😢
Kitchen tank turned very lively suddenly with the addition of all the shrimp.
Im leaning towards not putting the shrimp back in the main tank at all, I think I will sell them soon now that they are 100% healthy.
Later on I would like to get Tangerine Tigers, they would be more compatible with soft water for posh plants, and my fish are all the kind that like softer water.
Frogbit from main tank. The phone camera makes it look greener than they actually are this time too. For me who are up close with both tanks, the difference between the frogbit in the two is substantial.
I have decided to boost the group of existing noodles by adding new members. There are 5 striped and 1 silver noodle in the main tank. The quarantine got 9 more some days ago, and will get another batch again soon. I would like to give my older ones a really big group, in hopes that it might encourage them to be active in the daytime again, like they used to be.
Some algae. Less than I usually pull out.
Still a lot left in the tank.
I learned another thing about the Hymenasplenium obscurum fern. It will apparently also make plantlets on older leaves. So not only are daughters appearing on the thin roots it puts out, but also now on the older leaves. Very cool.
"Here at Hufsa Incorporated, we take stress testing plants very seriously. We are world renowned for our skill at pushing plants to the limit, even though we didnt intend to be in this specialty branch. Despite this, we continue our dilligent pioneering work in finding new and creative ways to stress plants and get the good folks at home the results that they crave. Stay tuned folks" corporate jingle plays
The Crepidomanes are feeling a bit better now that the BBA is not quite so feisty. One of the varieties has increased in size quite a lot, the other two are still a little bit small. I suspect that not all varieties of Crepidomanes are equally suited to aquarium culture.
Im a little bit on the fence about the whole family, their growth pattern is very loose and they dont seem to feel obligated to attach to anything at all. Im not sure how I can plant them to make them look the most attractive, and I suspect the ferns care very little about what I think of their ways.
The project to extend the Mini Tripartita cover to other parts of the tank has been a resounding success. His royal high noodliness has lately been inhabiting the left side of the tripartita plantings, since I so cruelly saw fit to trim the right side.
Im thinking that I can trim the Tripartita covers alternately, so that the noodles always have some grown in hiding places to retreat to, even if I rudely demolish the other bit just when they have it arranged how they like it.
They come from silty sandy banks with tons of leaf litter in the wild. High tech light intensity is probably not their favorite, and getting leaf litter to stay down with a fair bit of flow is difficult. Therefore I feel like its the least I could do to give them some planting that can provide a few of the qualities that they like. Im planning to do more of this, and try to use a majority of plants that have a structure that the noodles can crawl through and generally make themselves comfortable in.
I picked up some Vallisneria amongst other things the other day too, and since I found that disgusting planarian in one of the bags, the whole lot got subjected to a 12+ hr dip in sparkling water.
The vallisneria was not amused. The leaves in the picture here are 100% dead. I cut them down to the stumps right after this. I dont need them rotting in the tank. Im not sure if the base of the plants survived the dip or not. It remains to be seen. Luckily its not the most precious plant in the world.
Im having a hard time again trying to get a portion of Queen Moss to grow emersed. It was like this last time too. Even the Fissidens fontanus, which I have heard is an obligate aquatic, did slightly better emersed than the Queen moss last time I tried.
But im trying again because I want to send Darrel some of this unkillable moss, and I got tired of cutting it back in the main tank (it grows very fast). I also figured some emersed grown moss might do even better in long transit times.
I think there may be a clue in the supposed latin name of this moss. Hydropogonella gymnostoma. I think it might also be an obligate aquatic. It would certainly explain its lack of enthusiasm above water, because below water it has a speed unlike nothing I have ever seen from a moss.
Luckily, when I removed the moss from the main tank, I suspected it would still not be the last time I saw it in there. And I was right, it has reappeared again and is growing on a part of the big root. Its a fairly convenient location where it wont mix with any of the other mosses, so im pretty satisfied with that. Ill get some of this very vigorous moss to Darrel one way or another 😎
The new noodles are helping me decide on sand grain sizes. There is what plants might like, what I like looking at, but they actually live in the tank. They cant leave, they cant go somewhere else if the substrate is not to their liking, like they could in a river.
So I take their input very seriously. So far the focus group has more or less ruled out 0.6-0.7mm grains. Its too coarse. The corys also dont like it super much since they are such a small species.
Sifting is a major part of the loaches natural eating pattern (they are sifting micropredators), so in my opinion they must be allowed to carry out those behaviors in a comfortable manner. 0.5-0.6 can be sifted, but it doesnt look effortless.
Then I put in some 0.3-0.4. Big difference. Both the noodles and the corys like this one a lot more. Sifting is smooth and they bury their noses in, which they did not do with the slightly larger grain sizes.
Im a little surprised that such small changes make such a big difference, but I guess it all comes down to the size of the mouth and gills of the fish, and this can explain why there is such a contrast between slightly too big, and much more comfortable.
Im aware that consulting with fish about their preferences may brand me as somewhat of a nutjob, but if im happy with it and the fish are happy with it, then id rather be nuts 🤪🥰
Of course I also regularly abuse the fish just to balance things out, as evidenced below by the silver noodle's very upset tail sticking out of the sand.
I had to catch baby shrimp and had to demolish all the hiding places while I was looking for them.
He would like to launch a formal complaint 😠😤
The Boraras were less concerned. They mainly wanted to know if dinner service was still on. Where food? 🐷
Emersed plant shot. Various species plus Bacopa caroliniana "Colorata", with pinkish growth turning into green growth when it gets far enough above water.
The quarantine tank feels incredibly overstocked with so many creatures in there all at once. Im certainly not used to this level of hustle and bustle.
The emersed plants and matured filtermedia have done a great job at maintaining the water quality.
Its gonna get even crazier once another batch of noodles join in.
I suspect after that I will need to deworm(x2) and introduce this batch to the main tank, there are otos planned, but im not sure it will all fit in one go?
In case the new otos (whenever they will be bought) wont take fish food, vegetables, or repashy, I have started culturing some green slimy rocks as a backup.
So far they look pretty good
MichaelJ
Member
Same for me…. And yes, I do have a mental picture of who is who… but there is a distinct possibility that I would get in trouble if I would get into the who is who thing, but here is a good source for anyone who wish to guess.
All that said, The Moomin stories are all about eccentric and odd characters - I think we can all relate to that… I mean, for starters; we are keeping large rectangular glass boxes of water with plants inside our homes and spend a great deal of time on that endeavor.
Cheers,
Michael
Last edited:
Just as I hoped when @_Maq_ showed interest in the idea, he went ahead and did it within (what most humans would define as) a very reasonable timespan. ....excellent
I might still do some testing on this myself, but in my case we are talking about a timespan more like 2-3 @Wookii years (not to be confused with regular years, 1 Wooki year equals approximately 3.2 standard years)
So hold your breath folks, if I ever get around to it I shall post about it in this very journal*
(*Or perhaps sometime in the future it will be in Consistency Deficiency journal number 14)Main tank Frogbit still hasnt perked up, unlike quite a few of the submersed plants in the tank. Not quite sure what gives. Will take a few more plant health pictures soon to illustrate.
A lot of the stem plants are looking better, and the Blyxa is fairly bright green again which is a good sign. So parts of the tank are breathing a sigh of relief, but still there is a bit of something missing still.
It might be that it just needs more time. I would compare it to a ditch vs a ravine. If you fall into a ditch, getting back out again probably wont take very long. But if you fall into a ravine, even if you start right away it still might take a little bit of time to get back out. Plant health seems a lot like this. So the worse off the plant was, the longer it might take for it to bounce back. And if you fell into that ravine and broke your neck.. well.. game over.
But anyway, its a step in the right direction for sure when judging by plant response.
I did a few water tests for fun, and they seem pretty alright. NO3 25, PO4 0.75 and Fe 0.1.
I could have expected the phosphate and iron to be a bit higher, but its possible we're in Darrel's classic "giving with one hand and taking with the other" territory.
Adding more of both could mean they're just binding to each other and becoming somewhat more plant unavailable*. (*Special asterisk for Maq so he knows that I know that he knows about the precipitation and the cycling things and all that stuff)
It might support something I was already thinking of doing, which is to swap the FeGluconate-FeDTPA mix for just Fe DTPA, and see if that changes anything iron wise.
Otherwise I dont have anything too wild planned for fertiliser tweaks in the near future, the ranges im in have shown to be a pretty good fit for my tank, and I see the value in letting things stabilise as much as possible.
Got the last of the noodly noodles added, the young ones sure are extra squirmy. Theres 25 of the things in the quarantine tank now, almost a little bit too much squirming 🤢 But I think that impression will pass when they settle down a bit.
That will make 30 striped pangio and 1 silvery snob when they all come together 🍝
If that doesnt do it for them group size wise, I give up!All of the vallis died completely
Oh well 🤷♀️Rather have dead vallisneria than live planarians 😠
Anybody have any suggestions on this?
Im really tempted to give it a week or two and then try to squeeze in some otos 😬 Getting all the fish treated and ready to go into the main tank as one group would just be so convenient.
How many otos is a suitable number for a 250 liter tank anyway? Does anyone know? Is 15 too many? Im considering somewhere between 8 and 15, not sure.
I dont want to be overstocked, but they do love to be in a group and I would appreciate some help from a few more algae eaters.
No, I would suggest that is an ideal number, they don't add a massive load to the tank unlike some of their larger cousins.
Cheers!
A lil photo dump for today, who doesnt like that 😊
FTS taken right before some more maintenance. I really like having a black spray bar, I cant wait for the rest of the stuff to be replaced as well 😃
Not much thread algae in this photo because I had done some maintenance the day before 🙂
The Corydoras pauciradiatus are just so cute 🥰
Buces seem to be recovering a bit, but not amazingly so, they still have the occasional issue with a new leaf just coming out super curled or stunting of the tips. But im not seeing much melt any more at least.
Im just gonna let things stabilize for a bit and see where that gets me, they grow relatively slowly compared to stemplants, so recovery is likely to also take longer.
The roots of the buce are still rotting as soon as they get below the sand though
A lot of the BBA in my tank is dying still, and there is a minimal amount that is reappearing.
This is especially obvious on the spray bar, which used to get partly covered by BBA in just a week or so, but now there is only green algae growing on it.
Crypts doing better but just like the buce not great yet. Seeing some rolled up leaf sides on the Purpurea, interesting and weird but not anything I would know what to do with.
The Spiralis Red has been slowly melting the old leaves while putting out new ones. Its been a very controlled and gradual process, so I wouldnt really call it "crypt melt". More of a planned (by the plant) transition from old to new leaves without imploding entirely. I wouldnt be surprised if some of the irregularities in leaves and growth are from the plants having been so disturbed and upset by various things. And that leaves wont come out perfectly formed until the plants are decently recovered.
Just like the crypts above these bitty ones are doing similarly. They are still much smaller than they should be, but they are putting out reasonable leaves and slowly building up plantmass. You can see a rolled leaf edge or two here too.
This cup doubles as a nursery/growout for fern plantlets, because I need somewhere to put those while they are tiny, and I kept losing track of them elsewhere.
Stem plant nursery again 😅
Any time theres a really small piece of stemplant or something that might die unless things get better real soon, I plant the cutting here. The conditions are almost always best in the tank here, so this spot guarantees recovery if recovery is possible.
Bacopa caroliniana Colorata and Ludwigia polycarpa are back in the tank too 😅 I missed them...
I dont know why I tend to take out the plants that actually grow well and easily. Maybe its the challenge.
I dont like when plants quit on me, plants are only allowed to be fired
But I kinda missed the cheerfulness of these two, so ill see if I can cram them in somewhere..
For now they are still converting back to submersed.
The other two plant additions that came together with the Vallisneria (RIP). These also got dipped, the Cryptocoryne "nevelli" took it well it seems, but the Bacopa monnieri 'Compact' not so much.
The Bacopa has shed all of its old leaves, which is about par for the course after a strong dip, but I am a bit concerned that the tips are not doing better than they are. They are very small so far and appear to be struggling a bit.
I planted one stem in the nursery out front, so if it makes it or not, its up to the plant.
There is no such thing as Cryptocoryne nevelli by the way, I guess the nursery is bad at spelling in addition to being uninformed.
The correct name is Cryptocoryne × willisii "nevillii". The real Cryptocoryne nevillii is not in aquarium culture and the name has been incorrectly used for years.
I needed a few more filler plants to be able to put between plants that cast a lot of shade and grow spread out, and a medium sized green crypt might be a good match. In the spot it is now I need something that doesnt mind getting a bit shaded and forgotten, but that does not become so dense that it cuts off flow to the back. I hope it remains relatively solid green once its transitioned.
The Bacopa is a bit of an experiment, I supposed I "discovered" Bacopas for real only recently. The B. c. Colorata is such a joy to have, so well behaved and very easy to trim.
I want to try out a few more Bacopas, and my tank needs more green plants to balance out all the other colors.
Green helferi 😍 Green Blyxa 😍
Despite some issues still lingering, this is such a good step in the right direction 😄
Makes it much easier to give the plants time when I see these two support the current dosing like this.
Mini Macrandra and OJ also feeling better. Not perfect but a lot better. These were struggling a lot with stunting for a while, the OJ was very near deaths door, I thought I might have to repurchase it, that would have been super annoying.
But with this improvement I think I can nurse them back to life again.
Blood Red also feeling better. This one held out longer than the former two, but eventually the stunting issues got to this one as well. Now more and more shoots are growing properly.
(Note the H'ra in the front here, so much easier to get color on BR!)
In the past two pictures you can see a group of Bucephalandra Silver Grey. During the great plant upset both this buce and the Pearl Grey split into multiple crowns.
Some of them have small defects to the leaves, but otherwise appear pretty healthy and will need new homes soon, because these two varieties get pretty big! I dont have room to give all of them a good spot.
So I am looking for new homes for these cuttings, I want to keep just one shoot each of Silver & Pearl. I would like to bring these two buce varieties to the UK hobby.
They are really beautiful big statement plants and not particularly difficult in culture (the Kishii is a little more particular).
I will gladly ship daughter plants to interested parties (let me know), I would like to get the shipping covered but nothing for the plant itself 😊
I might prioritize giving them to those who can propagate them and spread them further in the hobby
(Especially if they might donate a % of the proceeds to UKAPS 😊)
I think it might be optimal if the daughter plants are sent in one shipment, and then put in separate packages from that point to where they need to go locally.
Let me know if anyone is interested 😊😄 (if anyone actually reads this
)
Ill finish off with a pic of the Guyana and Tonina. Both feeling better 🙂
FTS taken right before some more maintenance. I really like having a black spray bar, I cant wait for the rest of the stuff to be replaced as well 😃
Not much thread algae in this photo because I had done some maintenance the day before 🙂
The Corydoras pauciradiatus are just so cute 🥰
Buces seem to be recovering a bit, but not amazingly so, they still have the occasional issue with a new leaf just coming out super curled or stunting of the tips. But im not seeing much melt any more at least.
Im just gonna let things stabilize for a bit and see where that gets me, they grow relatively slowly compared to stemplants, so recovery is likely to also take longer.
The roots of the buce are still rotting as soon as they get below the sand though
A lot of the BBA in my tank is dying still, and there is a minimal amount that is reappearing.
This is especially obvious on the spray bar, which used to get partly covered by BBA in just a week or so, but now there is only green algae growing on it.
Crypts doing better but just like the buce not great yet. Seeing some rolled up leaf sides on the Purpurea, interesting and weird but not anything I would know what to do with.
The Spiralis Red has been slowly melting the old leaves while putting out new ones. Its been a very controlled and gradual process, so I wouldnt really call it "crypt melt". More of a planned (by the plant) transition from old to new leaves without imploding entirely. I wouldnt be surprised if some of the irregularities in leaves and growth are from the plants having been so disturbed and upset by various things. And that leaves wont come out perfectly formed until the plants are decently recovered.
Just like the crypts above these bitty ones are doing similarly. They are still much smaller than they should be, but they are putting out reasonable leaves and slowly building up plantmass. You can see a rolled leaf edge or two here too.
This cup doubles as a nursery/growout for fern plantlets, because I need somewhere to put those while they are tiny, and I kept losing track of them elsewhere.
Stem plant nursery again 😅
Any time theres a really small piece of stemplant or something that might die unless things get better real soon, I plant the cutting here. The conditions are almost always best in the tank here, so this spot guarantees recovery if recovery is possible.
Bacopa caroliniana Colorata and Ludwigia polycarpa are back in the tank too 😅 I missed them...
I dont know why I tend to take out the plants that actually grow well and easily. Maybe its the challenge.
I dont like when plants quit on me, plants are only allowed to be fired
But I kinda missed the cheerfulness of these two, so ill see if I can cram them in somewhere..
For now they are still converting back to submersed.
The other two plant additions that came together with the Vallisneria (RIP). These also got dipped, the Cryptocoryne "nevelli" took it well it seems, but the Bacopa monnieri 'Compact' not so much.
The Bacopa has shed all of its old leaves, which is about par for the course after a strong dip, but I am a bit concerned that the tips are not doing better than they are. They are very small so far and appear to be struggling a bit.
I planted one stem in the nursery out front, so if it makes it or not, its up to the plant.
There is no such thing as Cryptocoryne nevelli by the way, I guess the nursery is bad at spelling in addition to being uninformed.
The correct name is Cryptocoryne × willisii "nevillii". The real Cryptocoryne nevillii is not in aquarium culture and the name has been incorrectly used for years.
I needed a few more filler plants to be able to put between plants that cast a lot of shade and grow spread out, and a medium sized green crypt might be a good match. In the spot it is now I need something that doesnt mind getting a bit shaded and forgotten, but that does not become so dense that it cuts off flow to the back. I hope it remains relatively solid green once its transitioned.
The Bacopa is a bit of an experiment, I supposed I "discovered" Bacopas for real only recently. The B. c. Colorata is such a joy to have, so well behaved and very easy to trim.
I want to try out a few more Bacopas, and my tank needs more green plants to balance out all the other colors.
Green helferi 😍 Green Blyxa 😍
Despite some issues still lingering, this is such a good step in the right direction 😄
Makes it much easier to give the plants time when I see these two support the current dosing like this.
Mini Macrandra and OJ also feeling better. Not perfect but a lot better. These were struggling a lot with stunting for a while, the OJ was very near deaths door, I thought I might have to repurchase it, that would have been super annoying.
But with this improvement I think I can nurse them back to life again.
Blood Red also feeling better. This one held out longer than the former two, but eventually the stunting issues got to this one as well. Now more and more shoots are growing properly.
(Note the H'ra in the front here, so much easier to get color on BR!)
In the past two pictures you can see a group of Bucephalandra Silver Grey. During the great plant upset both this buce and the Pearl Grey split into multiple crowns.
Some of them have small defects to the leaves, but otherwise appear pretty healthy and will need new homes soon, because these two varieties get pretty big! I dont have room to give all of them a good spot.
So I am looking for new homes for these cuttings, I want to keep just one shoot each of Silver & Pearl. I would like to bring these two buce varieties to the UK hobby.
They are really beautiful big statement plants and not particularly difficult in culture (the Kishii is a little more particular).
I will gladly ship daughter plants to interested parties (let me know), I would like to get the shipping covered but nothing for the plant itself 😊
I might prioritize giving them to those who can propagate them and spread them further in the hobby
(Especially if they might donate a % of the proceeds to UKAPS 😊)I think it might be optimal if the daughter plants are sent in one shipment, and then put in separate packages from that point to where they need to go locally.
Let me know if anyone is interested 😊😄 (if anyone actually reads this
)Ill finish off with a pic of the Guyana and Tonina. Both feeling better 🙂
Last edited:
_Maq_
Member
I wonder what I like more: a stable tank with serene Hufsa, or a troubled tank with desperate Hufsa. Of course I like the former, but I suspect the latter is a bit more funny. 😉
Even when I dont do shenanigans, the tank does shenanigans on its own 
I dont fully understand why, but the most unproblematic plant in the tank decided to stunt and melt at the same time. Did it get tired of being referred to as the golden child? Why would it be tired of that?
(The pictures are terrible, I had already started the cleaning session and it was crappy pictures or no pictures at all, sorry not really sorry
)
The only explanation I can think of is that I did a larger water change a week before. But a whole week is a long time to decide to throw your toys out of the pram in such a dramatic way.
If it was that bad, why not melt sooner?
That water change was maybe 90%, because I wanted the tank empty so I could get the tank re-leveled and the water line wouldnt be crooked and annoy me.
But I ran into an issue with the stupid feet on this aquarium cabinet (on one of the feet it just skips the threads instead of letting me adjust), so I couldnt actually get the leveling done.
Super frustrating to say the least. But I had to just give up for that time and fill the tank back up.
The water was front loaded with the latest macro mix, so its possible the nutrient levels changed a bit if the tank had not built up to these new levels compared to the comparatively lean Tropica it was getting before.
I dunno. The timing just seems odd to me. Then again its possible it started quite soon after, and the melt just built up momentum until the results were floating around the tank a week after.
Strangely the parts of the stems that were in the sand were firm and green..
So it melted from "the bottom up", just not including the stuff below substrate. Weird.
The Tonina also had a pretty massive decay of old growth. Its not normal for the Tonina to look like this in old leaves in my tank.
I have seen maybe 1/3 of this amount of yellowing old leaves when I was running very lean macros.
But nothing at this scale, and a pretty rapid change too.
A few small patches were starting to melt as well, so I trimmed the group thoroughly and removed any glossy looking leaves.
I hope it wont go the way of the Myrio, then I will be real upset.
In addition to this, many of the other stem plants stunted in the tips. Rotalas (even rotundifolia) are part of the infamous Lythraceae gang, so they are fairly sensitive to changes. (The Ludwigias of course, did not care)
Based on all of this it seems something really upset the stability.
There is nothing inherently wrong with what I am dosing, and nothing else funky has been going on.
So "shock" is my best guess. New water was too different to the old water I suppose 🤷♀️
Its a pretty alarming sight, but if shock was what did it, then carrying on like usual with normal maintenance and normal (not huge) water changes will then be the best course of action.
In essence, doing "nothing" to fix it.
On a different topic, I got a flower from one of the Bacopa caroliniana 'Colorata' stems 😊
I took a bunch of photos and approximately zero of them were in focus. Typical
I know thats why you all come here, for the world class photography, and definitely not to check up on the train wreck
I think I said I killed off all the Pantanal. I lied.
There are two stems growing in the emersed pot still. They even close up at night just like they do when submerged Isnt that neat 😄
I dont fully understand why, but the most unproblematic plant in the tank decided to stunt and melt at the same time. Did it get tired of being referred to as the golden child? Why would it be tired of that?
(The pictures are terrible, I had already started the cleaning session and it was crappy pictures or no pictures at all, sorry not really sorry
)The only explanation I can think of is that I did a larger water change a week before. But a whole week is a long time to decide to throw your toys out of the pram in such a dramatic way.
If it was that bad, why not melt sooner?
That water change was maybe 90%, because I wanted the tank empty so I could get the tank re-leveled and the water line wouldnt be crooked and annoy me.
But I ran into an issue with the stupid feet on this aquarium cabinet (on one of the feet it just skips the threads instead of letting me adjust), so I couldnt actually get the leveling done.
Super frustrating to say the least. But I had to just give up for that time and fill the tank back up.
The water was front loaded with the latest macro mix, so its possible the nutrient levels changed a bit if the tank had not built up to these new levels compared to the comparatively lean Tropica it was getting before.
I dunno. The timing just seems odd to me. Then again its possible it started quite soon after, and the melt just built up momentum until the results were floating around the tank a week after.
Strangely the parts of the stems that were in the sand were firm and green..
So it melted from "the bottom up", just not including the stuff below substrate. Weird.The Tonina also had a pretty massive decay of old growth. Its not normal for the Tonina to look like this in old leaves in my tank.
I have seen maybe 1/3 of this amount of yellowing old leaves when I was running very lean macros.
But nothing at this scale, and a pretty rapid change too.
A few small patches were starting to melt as well, so I trimmed the group thoroughly and removed any glossy looking leaves.
I hope it wont go the way of the Myrio, then I will be real upset.
In addition to this, many of the other stem plants stunted in the tips. Rotalas (even rotundifolia) are part of the infamous Lythraceae gang, so they are fairly sensitive to changes. (The Ludwigias of course, did not care)
Based on all of this it seems something really upset the stability.
There is nothing inherently wrong with what I am dosing, and nothing else funky has been going on.
So "shock" is my best guess. New water was too different to the old water I suppose 🤷♀️
Its a pretty alarming sight, but if shock was what did it, then carrying on like usual with normal maintenance and normal (not huge) water changes will then be the best course of action.
In essence, doing "nothing" to fix it.
On a different topic, I got a flower from one of the Bacopa caroliniana 'Colorata' stems 😊
I took a bunch of photos and approximately zero of them were in focus. Typical
I know thats why you all come here, for the world class photography, and definitely not to check up on the train wreck I think I said I killed off all the Pantanal. I lied.
There are two stems growing in the emersed pot still. They even close up at night just like they do when submerged
Isnt that neat 😄
_Maq_
Member
During the WC last week, or afterwards (not today) - did you touch your substrate?
I had a bit of an "oh my god was that what did it" moment when you asked me just now, I was about to say Yes I did!.. but I got the days mixed up in my head ☹️
I did disturb the substrate a fair bit when I went in to clean up this melting mess just a few days ago, but..
I havent been quite well lately so I dont remember exactly what I did on that big water change.
Based on the pictures I took and the stuff I do remember doing, I dont think I disturbed the substrate very much that time.
So I would have to say no 🙁
I did disturb the substrate a fair bit when I went in to clean up this melting mess just a few days ago, but..
I havent been quite well lately so I dont remember exactly what I did on that big water change.
Based on the pictures I took and the stuff I do remember doing, I dont think I disturbed the substrate very much that time.
So I would have to say no 🙁
_Maq_
Member
You know, based on my recent practice, I think disturbing the substrate may lead to leaks of some unspecified reduced compounds. And I think they may cause damage locally within seconds before they get oxidized. Your Toninas suggest something like that. Similarly, your stems suffering just above substrate but not in the roots.
As for which compounds are at play, I suspect (hydrogen) sulfide(s) rather than so popular ammonia.
I've got some observations of similar kind. An example: I've trimmed Lindernia rotundifolia and replanted several small cuttings in the vicinity of a Cryptocoryne. A relatively small substrate disturbance. Yet within one single day that Cryptocoryne melted and dropped almost all leaves. So I believe I released a tiny amount of 'something' which was enough to have a localized effect.
Beside that, since introducing burrowing snails, I struggle to keep water truly clear. I keep on dreaming about sand.
Myrtle
Member
I've had a similar experience with the melting of stems just above the substrate, but only when I try to grow Hottonia or Juncus. Twice now I've attempted these plants, in different established and new tanks with different parameters and both times I've had the same thing happen. I wonder if some genus/species are more sensitive to the disturbance than others? The one that failed in the new tank was in pretty poor condition when it arrived which may explain that, but the ones in the established tanks were in rude health before entering my death chamber.
The melting isnt quite over yet, but I think it might be temperature fluctuations and the accompanying instability that could be behind it.
Summer has come to Norway (blech), so not too long ago the tank went from a very steady 23 all the time, to 26-27 in the daytime and 23 at night.
I think this might have contributed to some of the upset plants, especially since the CO2 levels will have shifted down a bit as the temperatures went up.
Today ive put on the fans that I use in the summertime, and they brought the temperature down from 26+ to 24 quite quickly. I think im gonna mark this in my calendar for next year, so this doesnt sneak up on me again.
Ive set the Inkbird temperature controller to target 24 instead of 23. I just think a small amount of compromise is more practical rather than try to keep the tank at 23 C all summer long.
The heating differential is set to 2 degrees, so the tank will be allowed to reach 22 at night before the heater would turn on to bring it back up. Ive found it useful to utilize night time temperatures a bit.
Depending on how "lovely" (read: terrible) this year's summer will be, I might also set the tank to run on 25 for the worst weeks.
Since these fans use evaporative cooling (and I have assumed that evaporative cooling will be very inefficient under relatively tight lids since the air above will be more saturated with evaporation/humidity), ive also taken the lids off for the season.
Because the lids stole a bit of light, I turned the light intensity down by 10%, so the front and back light is now running 40% and 50% respectively. The last thing a tank that is threatening to melt needs is an increase in light imo.
Ive McGyvered a solution for mounting the hose and sensor of the AutoAqua ATO to the tank so it can control the water level for me, because I just cant physically keep up with that.
I had hopes the 3D printed mount would be ready, but unfortunately not yet. But the Auto Top Off is on and working at least, and I shouldnt let perfect be the enemy of good enough
Some of my very precious ferns had started to melt (😢) so I cut off all the leaves that were starting to do so, hoping that it wont spread to the entire plant.
The melt almost seems contagious, because plants that have been touching or near melting plants then started to melt themselves. I wonder if it has something to do with chemical signaling and substances leaking from the melting plants.
The ones that started it off was Myriophyllum Guyana and a bunch of the Buces, but ive now cut off melting leaves from the Trident java fern, Hymenasplenium Obscurum and Bolbitis heteroclita "Cuspidata".
Ill be really sad if I loose the last two.. so I hope they make it through.
A few leaves of Pteridophyta sp. "Niah" and Schismatoglottis prietoi that were near melting buces started to melt themselves, so I have had to remove some bits from them as well.
The trimming I did of the Tonina does not look like it will prevent it from melting, I saw a few leaves today that were starting to look glassy, and there was more yellow old leaves again.
Perhaps I should remove all the bad bits once again and it might not melt completely, but to be honest with you im nervous.
Ive been measuring the tank PH at pretty random hours lately and writing down my findings, but I think with the higher temperatures I will set an alarm to measure the same time every day, and see if I need to tweak the injection and otherwise make sure things are running acceptably.
The PH probe could seem to be back to normal, but I make sure not to let it sit in aquarium water over any actual time. Only briefly when taking a reading, and then right back into storage solution.
I guess that they are not designed to be chilling in the tank water over several days like I previously tried to do, and that this is what made the probe so sad so quickly.
Hopefully the tank will turn things around soon and stop the dramatic melting, its very naughty
Ill do my best to monitor it and keep things stable until then 🙂
Summer has come to Norway (blech
), so not too long ago the tank went from a very steady 23 all the time, to 26-27 in the daytime and 23 at night.I think this might have contributed to some of the upset plants, especially since the CO2 levels will have shifted down a bit as the temperatures went up.
Today ive put on the fans that I use in the summertime, and they brought the temperature down from 26+ to 24 quite quickly. I think im gonna mark this in my calendar for next year, so this doesnt sneak up on me again.
Ive set the Inkbird temperature controller to target 24 instead of 23. I just think a small amount of compromise is more practical rather than try to keep the tank at 23 C all summer long.
The heating differential is set to 2 degrees, so the tank will be allowed to reach 22 at night before the heater would turn on to bring it back up. Ive found it useful to utilize night time temperatures a bit.
Depending on how "lovely" (read: terrible) this year's summer will be, I might also set the tank to run on 25 for the worst weeks.
Since these fans use evaporative cooling (and I have assumed that evaporative cooling will be very inefficient under relatively tight lids since the air above will be more saturated with evaporation/humidity), ive also taken the lids off for the season.
Because the lids stole a bit of light, I turned the light intensity down by 10%, so the front and back light is now running 40% and 50% respectively. The last thing a tank that is threatening to melt needs is an increase in light imo.
Ive McGyvered a solution for mounting the hose and sensor of the AutoAqua ATO to the tank so it can control the water level for me, because I just cant physically keep up with that.
I had hopes the 3D printed mount would be ready, but unfortunately not yet. But the Auto Top Off is on and working at least, and I shouldnt let perfect be the enemy of good enough
Some of my very precious ferns had started to melt (😢) so I cut off all the leaves that were starting to do so, hoping that it wont spread to the entire plant.
The melt almost seems contagious, because plants that have been touching or near melting plants then started to melt themselves. I wonder if it has something to do with chemical signaling and substances leaking from the melting plants.
The ones that started it off was Myriophyllum Guyana and a bunch of the Buces, but ive now cut off melting leaves from the Trident java fern, Hymenasplenium Obscurum and Bolbitis heteroclita "Cuspidata".
Ill be really sad if I loose the last two.. so I hope they make it through.
A few leaves of Pteridophyta sp. "Niah" and Schismatoglottis prietoi that were near melting buces started to melt themselves, so I have had to remove some bits from them as well.
The trimming I did of the Tonina does not look like it will prevent it from melting, I saw a few leaves today that were starting to look glassy, and there was more yellow old leaves again.
Perhaps I should remove all the bad bits once again and it might not melt completely, but to be honest with you im nervous.
Ive been measuring the tank PH at pretty random hours lately and writing down my findings, but I think with the higher temperatures I will set an alarm to measure the same time every day, and see if I need to tweak the injection and otherwise make sure things are running acceptably.
The PH probe could seem to be back to normal, but I make sure not to let it sit in aquarium water over any actual time. Only briefly when taking a reading, and then right back into storage solution.
I guess that they are not designed to be chilling in the tank water over several days like I previously tried to do, and that this is what made the probe so sad so quickly.
Hopefully the tank will turn things around soon and stop the dramatic melting, its very naughty
Ill do my best to monitor it and keep things stable until then 🙂
Frogbit status update. Again they appear greener in the picture than in real life, but also look at the strange slightly oblong shape of some of these leaves, and the random bulges / wobbliness to the leaf surface.
Frogbit not quite happy about something 🤔 I will figure it out
Frogbit leaf comparison.
Left side, from quarantine/kitchen tank that gets dosed leftover Tropica "when the plants start looking like they need it". Average leaves, not the biggest nor the greenest of that lot.
Right side, an average leaf from the main tank frogbit. Significant difference.
The main tank frogbit has had many weeks to recover if they needed recovering from something, but they have stalled at this size. Small, pale, and a bit oddly shaped.
The roots of the frogbits are really struggling as well in the main tank, they are decaying and the plants cant seem to establish a good root base. More on that in the future...
Something is strongly limiting them in the main tank, and I somewhat doubt its macronutrients based on what is added and resulting test values.
I measured the water values in the main tank about a week ago; NO3 25, PO4 1, Fe 0.06.
NO3 and PO4 as expected, higher from higher dosing. But Fe lower than I would expect/want it to be.
Because ive been unsure how much Fe Gluconate is being utilised by my plants (vs precipitating) for a while now, this reading and the ones before could seem to support my decision to try just DTPA as an iron source for a while, and see if anything changes with the plants and readings.
Yesterday it was time to make a new batch of micros, so I changed Fe sources from 50/50 mix of DTPA and Gluc to only DTPA.
I increased B and Zn, ive been mulling it over since Maq pointed it out a while ago (thanks again for that
).I think the reason it ended up this way (balance between the traces) was because I was raising Fe and Mn alone until I saw a level where the plants seemed happier.
I wasnt raising the rest of the micros quite as much, because I was unsure if I was dealing with some kind of precipitation issue with Fe and Mn, or what might be the problem there.
I didnt want to go higher than warranted on the rest of the micros if that was the case.
It wasnt the best time to adjust these two last time I made micros, but now is a bit better, with not quite as much going on all at once.
I know not everyone "believes in micros", but so far they seem fairly significant to me.
When I got Fe and Mn into a better spot for my tank, it seems to me that a whole pandora's box of different symptoms started showing up in the plants.
If this is actually what happened it would be supported by Liebigs law. Once Fe/Mn was no longer the most limiting nutrient, the most limiting nutrient would shift to the "second worst", and so on down the line.
Its like if you had a nasty cut on your knee, but your arm is also broken. The broken arm takes most of the focus, and perhaps you dont even feel much pain from the cut on your knee until the pain from the broken arm is fixed.
Ive been having the strange issue with the curly and sometimes highly malformed plant leaves, and the issue has persisted in a way that doesnt quite line up with CO2 issues. (Again people can disagree, I dont particularly care because this is my tank 😉).
Im cautiously hoping increasing these two to be more in line with common ratios might help the plants grow a bit better. (As well as making sure iron is available and plentiful enough)
Ive been wrong about what I think might happen so many times now, so I can only make my best (partially educated) guess and see what actually happens
The plants dont lie, but we dont always interpret them correctly 🙂
(I have another juicy nutrient theory brewing in my mind, but I will not write about it today and expose myself to too much mockery all at once 😉)
As for the rest of the traces, im leaving Cu the same for now. This one varies a fair bit in other mixtures, I wonder why that is? @_Maq_ do you have any insight on this to share with us?
In some products it is quite high, almost in line with Zn and B, which seems crazy to me, but thats probably colored strongly by bias / fear of copper. In other mixes/products it is much lower.
Gradually decreasing Mo is in progress, it was lowered to the same as Cu last time, this time setting it a little bit lower than Cu. Not convinced I will take it all the way down to Marschner numbers though.
As discussed in previous posts, this one also varies very much from product to product. Luckily it is not very harmful compared to the other traces, but of course everything is relative and its still a trace nutrient.
Overview:
Fe 0.42 (11% DTPA)
Mn 0.21 (13% EDTA)
Zn 0.06 (14% EDTA)
B 0.06 (Boric acid)
Cu 0.0085 (14% EDTA)
Mo 0.006 (Molybdate)
Ni 0.0001 (Nickel sulfate)
Before the old solutions ran out completely, I inspected them to see if there were any of the floaty little bits in there this time.
Fe mix was clear, and the micro mix (Zn,B,Cu,Mo,Ni) was clear. The Mn mix was sort of evenly milky, ive observed this before, I wonder if it might be normal?
Im very happy there were no floaties. It seems that switching from citric acid to acetic acid and spending some extra time on cleanliness has fixed it for the most part.
It might be both or one of them that did it, but the goal is met and thats the important bit
Will check next cycle too, the extra cleanliness will probably lax a little over time unless I absolutely must, so if the floaties start reappearing then I know it will be necessary to include that.
No longer splitting micro nutrients into 3 solutions.
Dosing pump 1 made a lot of noise last autodoser cleaning, and the calibration required was very different to the other three dosing pumps.
It sounded like it was dying, however it appears to have adjusted itself a little bit now, because it is no longer quite as noisy.
Im not adjusting Fe/Mn relationship during cycles any more, so using just one fert (and pump) for Fe, Mn, +rest is therefore more practical now.
Since its been on and off noise wise I also dont want any potential issues with it influencing how much ferts are being dosed.
Im thinking I should probably replace the entire thing soon, its second hand and I think it ran a fair while for the previous owner.
For now I have moved the Macro mix and the new Micro mix over to pump 3 and 4.
When I made the combined micro mix I noticed the resulting ph was different to the other mixes.
When I previously made Fe, Mn and micro solutions seperately, the Mn solution needed more acid to get it down in the 4.5 - 5 range.
Now that I put them all together, the resulting ph was quite a lot higher than I had planned.
I want the ph of the solutions quite low even in the chelated mixes, because it just makes it harder for stuff to thrive in there.
I had started off with 3 ml 0.5% acetic acid (for 2000ml) at first, but the ph was well above 6 after having added all the micros.
I tried adding 10 ml more of the 0.5%, but the ph barely budged (~6.3).
It was clear this needed something stronger to counteract it, so I added 1 ml 35% Acetic Acid.
PH 4.99, getting somewhere. Adding one more 1 ml 35%, PH 4.71. Close enough for now.
Many of the chelates are reported to be stable above PH 4, so ive sort of set 4.5 as a safe target for myself.
When I had Fe DTPA and Fe Gluconate in the same solution, I felt this would be especially important, because Fe Gluconate doesnt store well in higher ph.
It seemed like Mn EDTA influenced the PH more than the others perhaps, but I wasnt convinced this was the full picture.
The previous Fe DTPA and Fe Gluconate solution did not require as much acid, but since I am using Seachem Iron as my Fe gluconate source, it might be that the highly acidic Seachem Iron addition influenced this.
It might just come down to that I am adding a lot more MnEDTA than the smaller traces, so in other words it could just be the concentration/amount difference that im seeing.
Fe mix was clear, and the micro mix (Zn,B,Cu,Mo,Ni) was clear. The Mn mix was sort of evenly milky, ive observed this before, I wonder if it might be normal?
Im very happy there were no floaties. It seems that switching from citric acid to acetic acid and spending some extra time on cleanliness has fixed it for the most part.
It might be both or one of them that did it, but the goal is met and thats the important bit
Will check next cycle too, the extra cleanliness will probably lax a little over time unless I absolutely must, so if the floaties start reappearing then I know it will be necessary to include that.
No longer splitting micro nutrients into 3 solutions.
Dosing pump 1 made a lot of noise last autodoser cleaning, and the calibration required was very different to the other three dosing pumps.
It sounded like it was dying, however it appears to have adjusted itself a little bit now, because it is no longer quite as noisy.
Im not adjusting Fe/Mn relationship during cycles any more, so using just one fert (and pump) for Fe, Mn, +rest is therefore more practical now.
Since its been on and off noise wise I also dont want any potential issues with it influencing how much ferts are being dosed.
Im thinking I should probably replace the entire thing soon, its second hand and I think it ran a fair while for the previous owner.
For now I have moved the Macro mix and the new Micro mix over to pump 3 and 4.
When I made the combined micro mix I noticed the resulting ph was different to the other mixes.
When I previously made Fe, Mn and micro solutions seperately, the Mn solution needed more acid to get it down in the 4.5 - 5 range.
Now that I put them all together, the resulting ph was quite a lot higher than I had planned.
I want the ph of the solutions quite low even in the chelated mixes, because it just makes it harder for stuff to thrive in there.
I had started off with 3 ml 0.5% acetic acid (for 2000ml) at first, but the ph was well above 6 after having added all the micros.
I tried adding 10 ml more of the 0.5%, but the ph barely budged (~6.3).
It was clear this needed something stronger to counteract it, so I added 1 ml 35% Acetic Acid.
PH 4.99, getting somewhere. Adding one more 1 ml 35%, PH 4.71. Close enough for now.
Many of the chelates are reported to be stable above PH 4, so ive sort of set 4.5 as a safe target for myself.
When I had Fe DTPA and Fe Gluconate in the same solution, I felt this would be especially important, because Fe Gluconate doesnt store well in higher ph.
It seemed like Mn EDTA influenced the PH more than the others perhaps, but I wasnt convinced this was the full picture.
The previous Fe DTPA and Fe Gluconate solution did not require as much acid, but since I am using Seachem Iron as my Fe gluconate source, it might be that the highly acidic Seachem Iron addition influenced this.
It might just come down to that I am adding a lot more MnEDTA than the smaller traces, so in other words it could just be the concentration/amount difference that im seeing.
I also made a micro mix for frontloading, because my plants still seem to get a bit upset about water changes, although much less than they previously have.
It has taken me a long time to try to twist my brain away from "water change = always good". Especially "more water change = more good" 🥴
More often than not "water changes = bad" when I look at my tank's response. (Please good folk put down your pitchforks and torches, I mean you no harm 😬)
Im specifically talking about my setup and my water supply, so in no way applying this to anyone else. I still believe water changes are mostly beneficial for most people.
Ive seen it so many times now that my tank usually reacts poorly rather than well, but since "WC = always good" has been such a pervasive thought in my mind, I havent listened nearly as well to the tank as I should have.
So im hoping frontloading some micros as well might smooth things over even more, just as front loading* macros has. Because that one was a real game changer.
*Actually, come to think of it, front loading might not be the most correct term to use any more? Im not really replacing the weekly doses with the front loading dose, im just dosing in two ways..
When I started with front loading I split my old weekly macro ppms in two, so dosed 50% "up front" (Front loading), and then 50% during the week.
This gave a leaner weekly dose, but based on long term measurements, happened to do a pretty good job at keeping macronutrient levels stable.
This was important because water changes could be once a week or once a month, and this division kept the levels pretty much the same no matter. YMMV though.
Now im more or less setting both targets to where I want the water column to be sitting.
Any water change then brings the water column closer to the intended targets, no matter if the water column was lower or higher than the target before the change.
I prefer it this way, because knowing what you are adding to new water is much easier than figuring what is in existing water.
I think I will still try to be a bit conservative with how often I change the water, and particularly try to avoid the very large water changes unless they are absolutely needed.
It just seems to be what the tank prefers. (Unless FL micros changes that)
Of course it will still need regular partial water replacement for the health of the fish, so I hope no one misunderstands me that way.
My front loading on macros has been based on a full weekly dose of macros. So the water change water gets the same ppms that the tank gets dosed during the course of a week.
I considered whether to add a full weekly dose of micros as front loading, or if something like half would be better.
I have decided to do half and see how that goes.
If the plants are taking offense at large water changes because the water column becomes too poor in micronutrients, 0.21 Fe + traces should be a big help for them.
Im not convinced that they would need more than half a weekly dose to get them over the bump.
After all, the weekly daily micro dose resumes the very next morning.
Dosing the lesser dose is safer when it comes to accumulation too.
When I made the FL micro I had the increased acid requirement in mind from the weekly micro fertilizer.
So I started out with 0.6 ml 35% acetic acid and potassium sorbate. The final volume is 600 ml for the front load ferts, but I add less than this (~500) at first, and then top up to 600 ml once everything is in.
After Zn addition: PH 4.46.
B: PH 4.46
Cu, Mo, Ni: PH 4.50
Mn: PH 4.58
Fe PH 4.95
Added another around of 0.6 ml 35% acetic
Topped up with RO to 600ml
=PH 4.67
So the Fe DTPA also raised the PH, its not just Mn EDTA.
Total acetic used = 1.2 ml 35% acetic for 600 ml.
Might use a bit more next time unless there is a significant drawback to adding too much acetic acid to a fertilizer (too much edible carbon perhaps?)
The macro solutions required much much less acid to lower the ph (which is why I was using 0.5% acetic acid for that).
I considered whether to add a full weekly dose of micros as front loading, or if something like half would be better.
I have decided to do half and see how that goes.
If the plants are taking offense at large water changes because the water column becomes too poor in micronutrients, 0.21 Fe + traces should be a big help for them.
Im not convinced that they would need more than half a weekly dose to get them over the bump.
After all, the weekly daily micro dose resumes the very next morning.
Dosing the lesser dose is safer when it comes to accumulation too.
When I made the FL micro I had the increased acid requirement in mind from the weekly micro fertilizer.
So I started out with 0.6 ml 35% acetic acid and potassium sorbate. The final volume is 600 ml for the front load ferts, but I add less than this (~500) at first, and then top up to 600 ml once everything is in.
After Zn addition: PH 4.46.
B: PH 4.46
Cu, Mo, Ni: PH 4.50
Mn: PH 4.58
Fe PH 4.95
Added another around of 0.6 ml 35% acetic
Topped up with RO to 600ml
=PH 4.67
So the Fe DTPA also raised the PH, its not just Mn EDTA.
Total acetic used = 1.2 ml 35% acetic for 600 ml.
Might use a bit more next time unless there is a significant drawback to adding too much acetic acid to a fertilizer (too much edible carbon perhaps?)
The macro solutions required much much less acid to lower the ph (which is why I was using 0.5% acetic acid for that).
Look at this Bacopa.. The leaves are long and weirdly shaped here too. Colorata should have much shorter and rounder leaves than this. And they should not be twisted.
They were not like this the last time I had this species growing in my tank, of that I am pretty sure.
I think its the same symptoms that the frogbit is also displaying. Im very interested to see if anything changes with the latest tweak to micros.
Pic of melting Buce Ghost 😕
Before the Guyana melted and the buce started this round of melting, I had many of the buces out of the tank to manually remove some of the sickly BBA.
Sickly BBA is quite easy to pull off the edge of the leaves, unlike healthy BBA where its nearly impossible.
But I suspect this handling still made the buces extra upset. Its possible that even though the sickly BBA appears to come off easily, that microscopic wounds are still made on the plants.
And if the plant is already stressed, it would make sense how that could trigger a whole leaf melt.
Ive lost some portions of Ghost, which is a bit of a tragic and annoying setback.
But, I think its going to recover if I can figure out whats making the new leaves growing out so poorly.
Last edited:
_Maq_
Member
I've checked your micros dosing, @Hufsa . Compared to my method, you still overdose mightily. On the other hand, you remain safely in non-toxic region.
We all have to find our way through trial & error, I guess.
I like this statement of yours:
In one of my tanks (Vermelho) I currently struggle with algae - BBA and green thread algae. It's got rather serious. I'm trying some 'biological' methods. I'll let you know - if there's anything positive to report. 🙁
We all have to find our way through trial & error, I guess.
I like this statement of yours:
This is the crux of my method. Using solely RODI water enables me to front-load exactly what I want. And similarly to EI method, I rarely feel a need to test the water (except pH and conductivity).
In one of my tanks (Vermelho) I currently struggle with algae - BBA and green thread algae. It's got rather serious. I'm trying some 'biological' methods. I'll let you know - if there's anything positive to report. 🙁
The difference in demand between a CO2-injected tank and a non injected one is really significant.
I dont know if you have personally experienced the difference yourself?
In addition to that it seems plant requirements for nutrients can vary significantly depending on other factors as well.
We might only need to look at @plantnoobdude when he was lean dosing with sand. I believe there is no way I could successfully use his micro dosing for example, without also having just about all of the other nutrients and parameters the same as he had.
Glad to hear that 😉
Seems like it
I sometimes wish I had more local/norwegian planted tank keepers to look to, but there are not that many of them, and most do not think about ppm's much
"Parts per what!?
"Although, I think newbies to the hobby might do well to start with emulating someone they like the tank of, that also has roughly the same water parameters as them.
So a newbie with super hard tap water might be wise to start their journey emulating someone thats also using hard tap water.
Trying to emulate someone that is using RODI without swapping to RODI themselves might not be very successful.
Interesting, I think you should let me know even if there is negative to report, its still useful knowledge when it doesnt work
Can I hassle you for your thought about this my friend
I suspect the answer might be just Marschner all the way, how boring that is 😉😁
Continuing on my latest picture series, here are some more shots from the emersed plant section 
Rotala "Blood Red Singapore" (Her hairy-stemmed green friend is Bacopa caroliniana "Colorata")
Myriophyllum sp. Guyana 😃
I think this is the first image I have ever taken that is actually in focus! Look ma, no hands!
My entry to the first annual Ittiest Bittiest Flower competition:
Hydrocotyle tripartita "Mini"
Obligatory fish tax:
Quarantine otos are recovering quite nicely so far.
Rotala "Blood Red Singapore" (Her hairy-stemmed green friend is Bacopa caroliniana "Colorata")
Myriophyllum sp. Guyana 😃
I think this is the first image I have ever taken that is actually in focus! Look ma, no hands!
My entry to the first annual Ittiest Bittiest Flower competition:
Hydrocotyle tripartita "Mini"
Obligatory fish tax:
Quarantine otos are recovering quite nicely so far.
_Maq_
Member
The difference is significant, no doubt. But I always tie micro dosing to phosphorus. So, when I say you "overdose", it's not meant relative to my low-tech, but relative to your phosphorus. Plants cannot utilize more micros if phosphorus is not in equivalent supply.
No, I've never injected CO2.
Demand for some nutrients (Ca, Si, B, N) may vary, but it's unlikely in the case of transition metals. These elements serve as key components of various enzymes. And again, the volume of these enzymes must be in correlation to chlorophyll, i.e. 'green matter'.
Conversely, demand for elements used in building supportive tissues may vary. But not very much because these tissues contain largely just carbon, hydrogen and oxygen.
So, what we perceive as "demand" is in case of micronutrients rather "an ability to effectively uptake" them. In this respect, differences among species are indeed huge.
I will, but in another thread. I'll let you know.
I'm not sure whether I completely understand your question.Can I hassle you for your thought about this my friend
I suspect the answer might be just Marschner all the way, how boring that is 😉😁
I think that the problem with (at least some of) commercial micros blends is that they were originally designed for field use or hydroponic culture. That is why iron is always chelated; non-chelated iron is present almost everywhere and iron fertilization makes no sense if plants can utilize "natural" iron. To a degree, the same can be said about Mn, Zn, Cu, Ni. On the other hand, molybdates are well soluble and may get lost with the first rain. That's why such insane amounts of Mo in these blends, I believe.
Obviously, the conditions for elements cycling in aquarium are very different. Aquarium is a closed system with much more water and much less oxygen. Precipitated compounds remain in the system (unless "wasted" in the filter) and dissolve again in the lower substrate.
It's impossible for us to know how much micros (as residues from dosing a while ago) are available in the substrate. My response to this situation is that I dose micros in Marschner's ratios and in relation to phosphorus plus some excess. This approach has resulted in significantly lower doses than those common among hobbyists. It works for me, without chelates, in my acidic water with low bicarbonates.
I suppose dosing of iron, and perhaps Mn, Zn, Cu as well must be higher in water with elevated alkalinity (over 1 °dKH). What is important to say, though, is that iron is not toxic, but the other metals are.
