Consistency Deficiency

[_Maq_]

@Hufsa , I truly dislike commercial fertilizers, but out of compassion, I looked at Tropica Specialized composition. What strikes me at first look is total lack of calcium, and very few magnesium. Now, I don't recall exactly your tap water parameters but I guess it's lacking magnesium, isn't it?
What do you think about possible magnesium deficiency?

 

[Hufsa]

@Hufsa , I truly dislike commercial fertilizers, but out of compassion, I looked at Tropica Specialized composition. What strikes me at first look is total lack of calcium, and very few magnesium. Now, I don't recall exactly your tap water parameters but I guess it's lacking magnesium, isn't it?
What do you think about possible magnesium deficiency?

My dear friend we have been down this road before 😅
The water that I use is remineralized to be ratio-compliant (in other words 30 Ca, 10 mg), so magnesium content is good 😊 Even then I have tried before increasing Mg, there is no effect.
But I dont blame you for not remembering, I can hardly remember it all myself sometimes 🙂

 

[Courtneybst]

Can you share pics of the lackluster-ness?

It might be hard to convey by pictures add it's more noticeable in person, but hopefully you can see.


The plants have a pale colouration compared to what I'm used to, and I'm dosing more than what I'm supposed to (2ml per week on a 14L tank). Maybe I'm just not giving things time, maybe things are out of balance for other reasons but the pastéle chic is noticeable IMO.

 

[_Maq_]

My dear friend we have been down this road before 😅
The water that I use is remineralized to be ratio-compliant (in other words 30 Ca, 10 mg), so magnesium content is good

I can remember it very well, I only haven't noticed that beside Tropica fertilizer you add anything else (within this Chapter). Please, accept my humblest of apologies!

I would love to see your vision of ideal beauty Maq 😉
We shall critique it with the same gentle silk-like touch you use to critique everyone elses taste with 😇

I hope you'll have a lot of FUN. 😀

 

[MichaelJ]

@Hufsa , I truly dislike commercial fertilizers, but out of compassion, I looked at Tropica Specialized composition. What strikes me at first look is total lack of calcium, and very few magnesium.

I am wholly unaware of any all-in-one fertilizers that contains calcium and most will only contain a very small amount of magnesium. The main source of Ca and Mg is generally assumed to be from re-mineralizers and/or tap water.

The water that I use is remineralized to be ratio-compliant (in other words 30 Ca, 10 mg)

Even if you keep shrimps you can knock off 7 ppm of Ca and target 23 instead. Just a thought. Would lower your GH by one degree and probably stimulate uptake - perhaps? 🙂

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Hufsa]

If you have a low stocking, or otherwise low amount of ammonia production in the tank, then the bacterial load won't be particularly high, so sudden spikes in ammonia will take the bacteria a little while to catch up, but once their levels have proliferated, they should be able to handle the excess on the regular.

Thats a fair point. I have tried to forget some of the old knowledge of "cycling" from my pre-planted tank days (since some of it is only partially true at best). But I do seem to remember that specifically the microbes that deal with nitrite are a fair bit slower at increasing in population than the microbes dealing with ammonia (allegedly). Which is (allegedly) why nitrite spikes are more common in tanks that have some degree of established culture. This aligns with my experiences over the years, new tanks can get ammonia spikes, but tanks that are partially or more fully matured will get nitrite spikes instead.

I've overdosed Tropica's ammonium based fert in my tank with no issues, but my tank is fairly heavily stocked with fish already, so I'm guessing that the bacteria in my tank is just in greater numbers already. That being said, it also seems perhaps unnecessary to dose more if the plants aren't consuming it in time...

I think I might be a bit overly cautious with this fertilizer... Ive just had so many dead fish over many of years of fish keeping 😔 and I deeply want to do better, not make any mistakes or take any risks. With just one new fish who is sick or dead I feel like I have failed to be a more ethical fishkeeper. I have some qualms about the entire hobby as well, but on a personal basis I feel like my ability to prevent them from falling ill or tragic stuff like that is still not up to par compared to how long ive been in the hobby.
Ive got five adorable new little fishy friends in the quarantine tank that I couldnt leave scattered in different tanks in a store.
(They seem to have had a bit of a hard life already, one has a curvy spine and another one is missing an entire pectoral fin 😦)
The frogbit growth in the quarantine tank is very solid and the fish are in great health, steadily gaining weight under a carefully controlled feeding regime.
I had to pull out a massive load of frogbit just yesterday as it was about to start growing in layers, so it was time for removal of some plant-mass.
But there is nothing saying that I couldnt very carefully increase the fertilizer addition over weeks, or at least divide the dosing into daily ones. The pump dosing isnt leaving me many options, but I could pour some over into a different bottle and dose with a small syringe 🙂

The main tank is much more mature so there I am less nervous about increasing. Its already getting daily dosing, but I could add another pump every now and then, slowly increasing the overall weekly dose, to see if the frogbits old leaves shed a bit less.
Thanks for the input @xZaiox 😊

 

[Courtneybst]

@Hufsa it could also just be Twinstar lighting. The plants don't look as pale in sunlight or under chihiros.

 

[Hufsa]

View attachment 203876View attachment 203877View attachment 203878

They look pastele chic to me as well. Is there a yellow cast to the tank overall (from light or tannins)?
Im not a fertilizer expert but I would be squinting suspiciously at the Tropica ferts with those results. They look paler than they should, yellow cast or not. It might not be a good fit for your water? Have you ever tried something like TNC? Not sure what chelates they use tho 🤔
Does Solufeed make any Fe DTPA micro mixes?

I am wholly unaware of any all-in-one fertilizers that contains calcium and most will only contain a very small amount of magnesium. The main source of Ca and Mg is generally assumed to be from re-mineralizers and/or tap water.

This.

Even if you keep shrimps you can knock off 7 ppm of Ca and target 23 instead. Just a thought. Would lower your GH by one degree and probably stimulate uptake - perhaps? 🙂

Interesting 🤔 Ive avoided messing with the GH since the shrimp have been struggling, and I didn't want to add anything else to whatever else is already bothering them. Will the reduction in Ca be significant to my micro dosing issues? I thought the bigger player was CO3 (KH) etc, but maybe ive misunderstood?
You think the Neocaridina would go for a reduction @MichaelJ ?

 

[xZaiox]

Thats a fair point. I have tried to forget some of the old knowledge of "cycling" from my pre-planted tank days (since some of it is only partially true at best). But I do seem to remember that specifically the microbes that deal with nitrite are a fair bit slower at increasing in population than the microbes dealing with ammonia (allegedly). Which is (allegedly) why nitrite spikes are more common in tanks that have some degree of established culture. This aligns with my experiences over the years, new tanks can get ammonia spikes, but tanks that are partially or more fully matured will get nitrite spikes instead.

Despite the counter advice found on this forum, I always pre-cycle tanks with liquid ammonia before adding anything, so that the tanks can process 4-5ppm of ammonia within 24 hours. I know this doesn't "fully" cycle a tank, but it certainly prevents ammonia related deaths from occurring. I think it also seems to reduce algae on initial startups. You're right with the nitrites, they take a lot longer to stabilise than ammonia.

I think I might be a bit overly cautious with this fertilizer... Ive just had so many dead fish over many of years of fish keeping 😔 and I deeply want to do better, not make any mistakes or take any risks.

While this is admirable, I do think mistakes are going to occur from time to time, it's only human nature. The best we can do is to just keep ourselves as educated as possible and learn from them. We learn better from mistakes than from successes.

With just one new fish who is sick or dead I feel like I have failed to be a more ethical fishkeeper.

I don't know how many people will agree with me, but I personally find one of the best ways to keep fish healthy is to have a very rigid quarantine protocol. I always deworm fish in quarantine before adding them to the main tank, I find it has dramatically cut down on deaths and illnesses since doing this. I don't know if maybe the fish/shops in my area are just particularly loaded with parasites or what, but it works for me. Most of these fish are either wild caught or kept in tanks which have housed wild caught specimens.

Ive got five adorable new little fishy friends in the quarantine tank that I couldnt leave scattered in different tanks in a store.
one has a curvy spine

I'd watch this IMO. A curved spine can sometimes just be a physical deformity, but it can sometimes be a parasitic infection (such as hexamita), or possibly tuberculosis/mycobacterium infection.

Thanks for the input @xZaiox 😊

You're most welcome 🙂

 

[Hufsa]

personally find one of the best ways to keep fish healthy is to have a very rigid quarantine protocol.

Im with you on this one, (in my quest to be better) ive been trying to emulate the best fishkeepers I know, and this is something they usually have in common.

I always deworm fish in quarantine before adding them to the main tank, I find it has dramatically cut down on deaths and illnesses since doing this. I don't know if maybe the fish/shops in my area are just particularly loaded with parasites or what, but it works for me. Most of these fish are either wild caught or kept in tanks which have housed wild caught specimens.

I think theres a lot of "dirty" fish stock out there, most LFS dont seem to care/mind.

Nothing is getting transferred from the quarantine tank to the main tank (like plants and such). Im using separate hoses, buckets and nets etc for everything. Once I have compiled all the fish I am wanting to add for the foreseeable future (which will take a little while for financial and quarantine stability reasons), the new group of fish is getting a deworming course over several sessions before ill consider adding them to the main tank. They will also need to look completely healthy (minus healed injuries) and have been stable for a decent time as well.

I'd watch this IMO. A curved spine can sometimes just be a physical deformity, but it can sometimes be a parasitic infection (such as hexamita), or possibly tuberculosis/mycobacterium infection.

Thanks for the heads up 😊 Ill continue monitoring little Timmy (I already named him which im pretty sure is bad luck). For some reason the spine reads more like a born deformity or injury as a fry rather than something like the bend guppies can get when they're no good, but I'm keeping a close eye on them in either case. Quarantine is when discovering these kinds of problems should happen after all 🙂
Stupid that its taken me this many years to fully embrace the regiment.

 

[MichaelJ]

Interesting 🤔 Ive avoided messing with the GH since the shrimp have been struggling, and I didn't want to add anything else to whatever else is already bothering them.

If that's the case, I wouldn't change it. What sort of struggle, if I may ask?

Will the reduction in Ca be significant to my micro dosing issues?

Probably not. My suggestion was more from a purist perspective... No reason to add more of anything if your livestock or plant don't need it.

I thought the bigger player was CO3 (KH) etc, but maybe ive misunderstood?

No. Your correct. But excess levels of Calcium (30 ppm, is generally not considered excessive though) can block or limit uptake - especially of potassium, which may be an issue if you're otherwise dosing somewhat lean - which I believe you are with your recent switch to Specialized?

You think the Neocaridina would go for a reduction @MichaelJ ?

I am at 21-23 ppm myself in my shrimp tanks coming down from 30 ppm in the past - as always, I made that change very gradually.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Hufsa]

If that's the case, I wouldn't change it. What sort of struggle, if I may ask?

Ah, the adults were dying at an alarming rate up until a few weeks ago, and there hasnt been shrimplets in many months. Especially berried females were dying, which I suppose naturally explains the lack of babies. It seems better now, I havent seen any dead shrimp, so I think the CO2 was simply too high for them. Terrible way to figure that out, I thought the fish would have said something before coming to that point.
Im just waiting for the shrimplets to start appearing before I will consider the shrimp population to be on the mend again.
Im going to stick with the classic 1.0 drop because of this experience. The fish might not have minded a bit more but the shrimp did.
Right now im running "blind" with CO2 injection, or UKAPS blind I suppose, which means just the drop checker. Its running a more average green tone.
I will do new detailed ph profiles once the new reactor is installed, provided I can get the slightly traumatized ph pen to cooperate 😅

Probably not. My suggestion was more from a purist perspective... No reason to add more of anything if your livestock or plant don't need it.

Ah best not to change anything right now, you see I'm trying to act normally have less shenanigans going on. Stability n all that you know.

No. Your correct. But excess levels of Calcium (30 ppm, is generally not considered excessive though) can block or limit uptake - especially of potassium, if you're otherwise dosing somewhat lean - which I believe you are with your recent switch to Specialized?

Eh maybe, but the chlorosis issues have persisted through all manner of different K dosings. Theres no apparent trend visible to me related to that.

I am at 21-23 ppm myself in my shrimp tanks coming down from 30 ppm in the past - as always, I made that change very gradually.

Ill keep it in mind for the future. There is a long term plan to go to softer water, but im not sure the Neos will be included in that at all. For now I think im better off leaving it as it is 🙂

 

[xZaiox]

I think theres a lot of "dirty" fish stock out there, most LFS dont seem to care/mind.

Unfortunately I agree with you here, I guess it's far cheaper for them to just mass import fish than treat the sick ones.

the new group of fish is getting a deworming course over several sessions before ill consider adding them to the main tank. They will also need to look completely healthy (minus healed injuries) and have been stable for a decent time as well.

Sounds good

Thanks for the heads up 😊 Ill continue monitoring little Timmy (I already named him which im pretty sure is bad luck).

Aww, little Timmy has my best wishes 😁

For some reason the spine reads more like a born deformity or injury as a fry rather than something like the bend guppies can get when they're no good

Yeah this can definitely happen. In my first ever tank I had a black venezuela cory that lived for many years with a bent spine/tail. No disease ever progressed, she was a happy and fat little thing

Stupid that its taken me this many years to fully embrace the regiment.

I unfortunately learned the necessity of a quarantine tank pretty quickly. My first tank I moderately stocked with fish straight out of the bags. Cue ich, gill flukes and internal parasites spreading like the plague 🙃

Im going to stick with the classic 1.0 drop because of this experience. The fish might not have minded a bit more but the shrimp did.
Right now im running "blind" with CO2 injection, or UKAPS blind I suppose, which means just the drop checker. Its running a more average green tone.

It's seeming clearer and clearer to me that stable CO2 is far more important than the amount injected. I've also reduced my CO2 from yellow drop checkers to lime green. There was an initial bloom of algae (especially BBA), I believe this is due to the plants current growth being unsuitable for the new CO2 levels, so they shed that growth and focus on producing new growth that is compatible with the lowered levels. I stuck with the lowered CO2 level and powered through the algae, and when I could, I replanted the healthy tops while discarding the old deteriorating growth, and now there is no difference in algae growth compared to the higher CO2 levels.

 

[Courtneybst]

They look pastele chic to me as well. Is there a yellow cast to the tank overall (from light or tannins)?
Im not a fertilizer expert but I would be squinting suspiciously at the Tropica ferts with those results. They look paler than they should, yellow cast or not. It might not be a good fit for your water? Have you ever tried something like TNC? Not sure what chelates they use tho 🤔
Does Solufeed make any Fe DTPA micro mixes?

Glad it's not just me lol. The light is quite warm compared to the Chihiros. It made me think that it was probably artificially 'greened' by the lights. 😅

I do have some TNC complete and APT complete laying around. I also mix my own ferts for my other tanks so maybe I could try that. I'm using remineralised RO water so it should be peachy.

I'll make the jump if you do. 😉

 

[Hufsa]

It's seeming clearer and clearer to me that stable CO2 is far more important than the amount injected.

Same here. For me it's going to especially be a focus on "better CO2" rather than "more CO2" going forward.

I just hope my energy will replenish soon, not getting much done with the tank at this level 💩

 

[hypnogogia]

Same here. For me it's going to especially be a focus on "better CO2" rather than "more CO2" going forward.

 

[MichaelJ]

Ah, the adults were dying at an alarming rate up until a few weeks ago, and there hasnt been shrimplets in many months. Especially berried females were dying, which I suppose naturally explains the lack of babies. It seems better now, I havent seen any dead shrimp, so I think the CO2 was simply too high for them. Terrible way to figure that out, I thought the fish would have said something before coming to that point.
Im just waiting for the shrimplets to start appearing before I will consider the shrimp population to be on the mend again.
Im going to stick with the classic 1.0 drop because of this experience. The fish might not have minded a bit more but the shrimp did.
Right now im running "blind" with CO2 injection, or UKAPS blind I suppose, which means just the drop checker. Its running a more average green tone.
I will do new detailed ph profiles once the new reactor is installed, provided I can get the slightly traumatized ph pen to cooperate 😅

Ah best not to change anything right now, you see I'm trying to act normally have less shenanigans going on. Stability n all that you know.

Eh maybe, but the chlorosis issues have persisted through all manner of different K dosings. Theres no apparent trend visible to me related to that.

Ill keep it in mind for the future. There is a long term plan to go to softer water, but im not sure the Neos will be included in that at all. For now I think im better off leaving it as it is 🙂

I agree. 23 vs 30 ppm of Ca would be a possible future tweak... not a solution to any of the bigger issues that's been bugging your tank... ... stability is paramount.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Tankless]

Glad it's not just me lol. The light is quite warm compared to the Chihiros. It made me think that it was probably artificially 'greened' by the lights. 😅

I've been using the Twinstar 600S for 3 years plus. The greens aren't as green as Chihiros. I prefer the warm look, although any tannings will exacerbate the effect.

Same here. For me it's going to especially be a focus on "better CO2" rather than "more CO2" going forward.

I'm interested in this, will hope to learn from how you achieve this.

 

[erwin123]

Hi Hufsa, as previously discussed, your water gH/kH appears to be very similar to mine, gH6, kH3-4. My TDS meter reads about 100-120ppm. I am also using Tropica specialised + APT + Seachem trace so my fertilisation regime is not that different from yours. As for CO2, my drop checker is green-lime green and never yellow. The only difference is that I probably have double the amount of light since I have 2 light fixtures, but thats just to keep the algae happy 🙂
These parameters are not as 'lean' as PND's but they are fine for growing most aquatic plants.

I would just say that you have to give it time for the plants to adjust to your new dosing regime?

 

[Hufsa]

I just hope my energy will replenish soon, not getting much done with the tank at this level 💩

Well I havent exactly been massively productive 😥 but I have done a little bit each day, just chipping away slowly at the stuff I need done.
Its been hard, especially working with those black pvc pipes and fittings have been like pulling teeth, ugh just one obstacle after another.
Today I spent virtually all the day getting caught up on plant care and trimming, cleaning intakes and skimmer etc etc. I was falling behind on it because I was trying to get the plumbing stuff sorted.


"Thunder Buddies": Its nice to have someone to snuggle up with under a plant when the terrifying human is doing renovations
Theres a -uh small contrast between the tail end of the Long Serpent / Silver Noodle and one of the chunky kuhlii females


The algae is starting to wear me out a bit, manually removing it and keeping the skimmer and intake meshes clean of it takes up most of the "weekly energy allowance" that I would normally spend on regular maintenance and trimming.
So I run out of energy doing that and cant trim the plants etc when I see that they need it.

Its similar to something ive seen other aquarists struggle with. They have an algae problem, they're not sure what the cause is but they do manual removal while they try to figure it out. But the algae doesnt end unless you get the cause (or the cause passes for natural reasons) and most people get tired and fed up between 2 - 8 months into the struggle.
This is the main reason I dont think manual removal alone is a good idea. Because algae doesnt get tired, but every aquarist has their limit.
Ive been pulling out liters of hair algae ever since last fall, so its been a while already. Ive gotta get at the cause soon. And if I have to pick between doing something about the very visible algae symptoms or doing something about a potential cause of the algae, then im gonna have to try to go for the cause(s), otherwise there would be no end to it.

So thats why ive been working on the plumbing and reactor and falling a bit behind on the trimming. But more caught up now
I also pretended to be a humongous-godzilla-sized-sand-snail (I made the roaring sounds in my head) while I was pulling out plants for trimming. I gave the sand a bit of a stir and a good loosening to hopefully help the plant roots a little bit in lieu of the snails.
All these activities clouded the water a bit, so no FTS for @plantnoobdude 😋 Ill try to remember to take one tomorrow when its all cleared up again 😇
The Thiara snails I ordered were shipped today, so im eagerly looking forward to receiving them. They will have to spend some time in quarantine though, theres no way around that.
And I also gotta test if the sand thats in the main tank has been permanently tainted by the No Planaria treatment or not.

The fish in the quarantine tank continue doing well, I saw hints of spawning activity a few days ago so they seem pretty comfortable 😅 I didnt mention what they are!
They are Corydoras pauciradiatus (presumably, ID by me. Store first told me they were Corydoras barbatus 😳).

Formerly called Aspidoras pauciradiatus, and before that they were Corydoras. But as of 2022 they are Corydoras again.
I fell in love with them immediately when I saw them 😍 Amazing to "discover a brand new" dwarf cory, that had somehow remained completely hidden to me all these years.
These guys are just a smidge bigger than Corydoras pygmaeus 🥰
Unfortunately there were just the five of them, and they might be a bit rare on stocking lists.
So im not sure how soon I can get them any buddies. I hope they will be comfortable enough hanging out with kuhlis and otos for a while.


This is little Timmy 😊 His deformity is only well visible in certain angles, in other angles he looks fine or just a little bit odd like here.


The one thats completely missing a pectoral fin is a female, so ive named her One-Arm-Annie.
Shes very cute and reminds me of cow tipping every time I see her, because shes a bit rotund and tends to tilt a bit sideways when resting. Shes one 'pod short of a tripod 😅


One of the "normal ones". I think there might be four males in total, although its possible one of them is a slender female. Annie is Annie.
I would be very happy if they start spawning for real later on, and the fry would survive. Then they'd have a bigger group, five is not a huge crowd.


Still thinking about sand 🤔 This is a sample of 0.6-0.7 mm sand on top of my regular sand.
I could understand how the plant roots might feel differently about this, it does look more "breathable". (Pls @_Maq_ dont be angry 😂)
It just looks a bit more open, quite different. The grainy look from this mm range isnt too bad. If I go above 0.7 it gets too speckled for me, at least in this sand type.
Unfortunately I discovered they're no longer producing this line of sand ☹️☹️☹️ I like this sand a lot, it has really really rounded grains, more than most sand types ive inspected
But if I wanted to go for it, getting any more bags might prove very difficult.

The brown sand is still in testing, sitting in a jar of acid at the moment. It leaks a lot of iron. Need to check how much it leaks at "normal" acidic aquarium PH levels.
Keeping an eye out for nice bits of sand while im on trails with the dog (yes I am clinically insane).

Stay tuned for the FTS coming up, its got a black spray bar 🤓😎🤩🥳🤯