Cladophora algae struggles

[Katharine]

Great to see the forum back up! 🎉

I am here again seeking advice for my low tech tank (full details here - My first adventure into aquascaping - Aquael 125L Walstad).

About 6 months ago I added a marimo moss ball I was given by someone online which unfortunately I now believe introduced Cladophora algae into my tank.

There's a video about Cladophora here which does not fill me with confidence!

I've tried reducing the light (for a while just using one of the two lights on the tank, and currently the lights are on approx 8 hours/day).

I don't add nutrients to the tank and have plenty of other plants, including lots of floating plants, who should be soaking up the excess nutrients.

I bought some API algae fix which seems like my only remaining option. I plan to run an experiment with using different concentrations in glasses of water outside of the tank to gauge if it's likely to help.

Anyone else have experience with Cladophora algae or API algae fix? What worked for you?

1. Size of tank in litres. 125L
2. Age of the set - up. 1 year
3. Filtration + Media/Sponges. Aquael pat mini
4. Lighting and duration. 8 hours, 2 x 1270 lumen LED tubes
5. Substrate. 4 parts aquatic compost and one part Melcourt farmyard topped with dennerle crystal quartz gravel
6. Co2 dosing or Non-dosing. None
7. Fertilizers used & Ratios. None
8. Water change regime and type. Infrequent ~10% water changes; dGH 8.
9. Plant list + When planted. Lots - crypts, vallisneria, anubias, ferns, floaters. Planted varying times.
10. Drop Checker. None
11. Inhabitants. 4 honey gourami, ~11 otocinclus, ~8 pygmy cories, ~18 CPDs, 5 black panther snails + babies, Ramshorn snails
12. Full tank image & Surface image.

 

[bazz]

Hi,
For me it would have generally been, manual removal, clean, water change and repeat but obviously using the Walstad method prohibits this, but then again adding algaesides probably goes against the grain too.

I bought some API algae fix which seems like my only remaining option. I plan to run an experiment with using different concentrations in glasses of water outside of the tank to gauge if it's likely to help.

This seems like a good idea but beware on the front page of the website for this product is a warning 'CAUTION: Do not use with freshwater crustaceans including shrimp, crabs, and lobsters' so I imagine your snails would not be too happy either.
James's Planted Tank suggests that
quote: "Can be very stubborn and difficult to eradicate. Make sure your dosing is good and keep your CO2 levels high. Manually pull out every bit you can see until it stops growing. May take a while but should work eventually. Make sure water circulation is good. Overdosing Flourish Excel, EasyCarbo or TNC Carbon may clear it. Amano shrimp sometimes eat it."
This is obviously aimed at high tech tanks but it looks like frequent manual removal is your best option.
I'm no algae ID expert either but if it's not growing too quickly it could just be green hair algae which is definitely easier to control, but again manual removal is the best tool.
Cheers!

 

[Katharine]

Hi,
For me it would have generally been, manual removal, clean, water change and repeat but obviously using the Walstad method prohibits this, but then again adding algaesides probably goes against the grain too.

This seems like a good idea but beware on the front page of the website for this product is a warning 'CAUTION: Do not use with freshwater crustaceans including shrimp, crabs, and lobsters' so I imagine your snails would not be too happy either.
James's Planted Tank suggests that
quote: "Can be very stubborn and difficult to eradicate. Make sure your dosing is good and keep your CO2 levels high. Manually pull out every bit you can see until it stops growing. May take a while but should work eventually. Make sure water circulation is good. Overdosing Flourish Excel, EasyCarbo or TNC Carbon may clear it. Amano shrimp sometimes eat it."
This is obviously aimed at high tech tanks but it looks like frequent manual removal is your best option.
I'm no algae ID expert either but if it's not growing too quickly it could just be green hair algae which is definitely easier to control, but again manual removal is the best tool.
Cheers!

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Using an algaecide is very much a last resort for me. I have tried reducing the light and have been removing it manually with no luck. The algae adheres very strongly to the wood in particular so it's not possible to remove it all.

I'm sure there's still an argument that I can control it if not eliminate it with regular manual removal but it's everywhere - we're talking regularly removing plants from the tank to clean the algae off and then replanting them, which isn't realistic for me.

I've setup a small experiment with a few glasses of water on a windowsill with some plants, algae and Ramshorn snails to test whether the algaecide works before adding it to the tank (with a control, 1/3 dose & full dose). The snails are fine so far, so that's one thing I don't need to worry about.

 

[louis_last]

I think Cladophora responds pretty well to blackouts. If I were you I'd try a 48 hour blackout. I've been pretty lucky and not had major algae issues for a few years but when I did have some problems a very strict blackout worked well. It helps to have some big amano shrimp to hoover up the dying algae though and they will also eat living cladophora. It would be worth adding a few anyway but they would take a while to clear a tank that size.
Just fyi it's also a total myth that marimo balls can or do introduce invasive clado algae to a tank. And even when the growth form of actual moss balls transitions to an attached form on hardscape it doesn't look much like problematic clado at all. I've seen a lot of people make this connection but I promise you it's just an unfortunate coincidence.
I like your tank though! and I don't think the clado we can see in these pictures actually detracts from it much at all.

 

[Katharine]

I think Cladophora responds pretty well to blackouts. If I were you I'd try a 48 hour blackout. I've been pretty lucky and not had major algae issues for a few years but when I did have some problems a very strict blackout worked well.

I might give that a go, thank you.

It helps to have some big amano shrimp to hoover up the dying algae though and they will also eat living cladophora. It would be worth adding a few anyway but they would take a while to clear a tank that size.

Amanos scare me. 😂 One of my black panther snails appears to have gotten a taste for Cladophora though, fingers crossed the others catch on!

Just fyi it's also a total myth that marimo balls can or do introduce invasive clado algae to a tank. And even when the growth form of actual moss balls transitions to an attached form on hardscape it doesn't look much like problematic clado at all. I've seen a lot of people make this connection but I promise you it's just an unfortunate coincidence.

My understanding was there are some cheap "marimo moss balls" which are actually Cladophora wrapped up instead but you may well be right! Either way the moss ball is gone and the cladophora is definitely not!

I like your tank though! and I don't think the clado we can see in these pictures actually detracts from it much at all.

Thank you, you've inspired me to give mechanical removal another go. It really is everywhere, it even grows in shaded areas like under leaves. There are some plants it gets so embedded in I should probably throw them away. I'd say I remove ~an egg cup of it/week.

 

[PARAGUAY]

Don't forget Diana Walsted now advocates water changes A blackout with a couple of w/c might turn things around with removal, the floating plants don't look as though they are thriving

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I was given by someone online which unfortunately I now believe introduced Cladophora algae into my tank.

It is a difficult one.

All the green algae are basically <"plants">, so if you create conditions suitable for plant growth, you also create conditions suitable for green algae growth. The photosynthetic pathways and pigments are the same, but the major difference is that algae don't have any internal plumbing, so are reliant on ions from the water column diffusing into the plant.

I'm guessing that in most peoples tanks green algae are suppressed by a <"clean-up crew">.

I don't add nutrients to the tank

the floating plants don't look as though they are thriving

It might well be a nutrient issue, but looking at the Frogbit (Limnobium (Hydrocharis) laevigatum), it doesn't look to be <"nitrogen (N)"> or <"iron (Fe)"> deficiency. Personally I wouldn't attempt to diagnose <"which nutrient is limiting">, I'd just try a complete (<"all in one">) fertiliser and see if plant growth picks up.

Don't forget Diana Walstad now advocates water changes

She does <"Walstad revises">.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I like your tank though! and I don't think the clado we can see in these pictures actually detracts from it much at all.

I'd also agree with that.

cheers Darrel

 

[Katharine]

Don't forget Diana Walsted now advocates water changes A blackout with a couple of w/c might turn things around with removal, the floating plants don't look as though they are thriving

What makes you say the floating plants aren't doing well? I'd just taken two thirds of them out after they took over the tank when I took this photo.

I have found stem plants have stopped growing in my tank which I assume is because there are fewer nutrients available in the water column than there used to be and those that are available are being used by the following plants. I'm not sure why that would cause algae though?

& to be clear I do have a sponge filter so there is water circulation (though I am relying on the plants/the tank itself to filter the water).
Apart from when I got carried away with adding courgette one time, I've always had zero ammonia, nitrates & nitrites when I've tested the water. And I do do water changes, just not every week.

 

[Katharine]

Hi all,

It is a difficult one.

All the green algae are basically <"plants">, so if you create conditions suitable for plant growth, you also create conditions suitable for green algae growth. The photosynthetic pathways and pigments are the same, but the major difference is that algae don't have any internal plumbing, so are reliant on ions from the water column diffusing into the plant.

I'm guessing that in most peoples tanks they are suppressed by a <"clean-up crew">.

Walstad points out that there is a risk with having a clean up crew that you end up with whichever algae they don't like to eat. Which could be what's happening here - I have otos and snails but neither of them are very interested in the cladophora.

I think I've seen it suggested that plants grow faster in high tech tanks and perhaps get trimmed before algae has a chance to establish. In any case I'm happy with having a low tech tank.

It might well be a nutrient issue, but looking at the Frogbit (Limnobium (Hydrocharis) laevigatum), it doesn't look to be <"nitrogen (N)"> or <"iron (Fe)"> deficiency. Personally I wouldn't attempt to diagnose <"which nutrient is limiting">, I'd just try a complete (<"all in one">) fertiliser and see if plant growth picks up.

She does <"Walstad revises">.

cheers Darrel

It's an option. I am not really sure why it'd help with the algae though? I know consensus here seems to be that fertiliser doesn't cause algae but surely having fewer nutrients in the water column should suppress it, just as it seems to have suppressed my other plants which feed from the water column?

 

[Katharine]

For the black out approach I am nervous about impacting water parameters as obviously it will stop the plants growing for a couple of days - I guess I can hold off feeding the fish for a few days and test the water everyday, but I don't have a clear idea how fast the water quality might deteriorate/how often I should be doing water changes?

The conclusion to my glass of water experiment ftr was probably API algae fix has a short term impact on algae growth, but I'd probably have to dose it multiple times to see results. & cladophora grows even faster with more light. I could try a blackout experiment next though!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I am not really sure why it'd help with the algae though?

Healthier plant growth will utilise the PAR and nutrients. I use my floating plants as a <"net curtain">, and only have <"low light plants"> at the bottom of the aquariums. You can only starve the <"plants you don't want"> by starving "the plants you do want".

I know consensus here seems to be that fertiliser doesn't cause algae but surely having fewer nutrients in the water column should suppress it, just as it seems to have suppressed my other plants which feed from the water column?

I know it is difficult, but I'd just concentrate on plant growth.

cheers Darrel

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

The conclusion to my glass of water experiment ftr was probably API algae fix has a short term impact on algae growth

These are always <"sticking plasters"> and no algaecides (other than tank janitors) can <"work permanently"> in the long term.

cheers Darrel

 

[louis_last]

For the black out approach I am nervous about impacting water parameters as obviously it will stop the plants growing for a couple of days - I guess I can hold off feeding the fish for a few days and test the water everyday, but I don't have a clear idea how fast the water quality might deteriorate/how often I should be doing water changes?

The conclusion to my glass of water experiment ftr was probably API algae fix has a short term impact on algae growth, but I'd probably have to dose it multiple times to see results. & cladophora grows even faster with more light. I could try a blackout experiment next though!

When I've done blackouts previously I didn't do water changes during as even that would have let in some light. Your fish can comfortably go much longer than 48 hours without food. If you go the blackout route you would just feed them well and do a large water change beforehand. You can add an air stone if you have one handy for extra oxygen but I just redirected my spray bar to create a lot of surface agitation and all fish and shrimp were totally fine. 48 hours isn't really long enough to kill the lagae AND for it to rot enough to deplete oxygen or lethally pollute the water unless you have a LOT more algae than I see here.