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Choosing Aquarium Plants For Soft And/Or Hard Water

Java Fern is not as easy as most people think in my experience. I often also recommend people to use it as close to the light source as they can when they are struggling as this has halved in many cases leading me to think it likes stronger lighting than most...
 
dw1305 said:
I'd just choose some plants you like the look of. The chances are that the majority of them will be fine in hard, or soft, water.
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Hi Darrel,

That's not been my experience. Take Echinodorus bleheri - so easy to grow, a child could do it and win prizes as a result! But I tried lots of things to get mine to grow successfully - and they never did. You will see threads here on UKAPS in which I've shared some of my difficulties with this plant. Is it the lighting, is it lacking in specific ferts, does it need more CO2, is the substrate to blame? According to the Dennerle link that I included above, E. bleheri prefers water with GH from 10 - 20 dGH. My tank water was softer than this as I kept GBRs. Perhaps most UKAPS members are using hard water and have fewer problems with plants? There are obviously lots of variables in growing aquatic plants successfully. There are clearly some people who have demonstrated that water hardness and pH are important considerations.

JPC
 
Onoma1 said:
I first saw Staurogyne Repens in one of the Green Machine videos and most see it as an easy plant, however, it just doesn't seem to grow in my tanks. I have always put this down to it not thriving in soft water.
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Hi @Onoma1

OK, this could be interesting. What is the GH (and pH) of the tank water in which you tried to grow Staurogyne Repens? According to Dennerle, it requires 10 - 25 dGH and pH 6 - 7.

JPC
 
Hi all,
jaypeecee said:
According to the Dennerle link that I included above, E. bleheri prefers water with GH from 10 - 20 dGH.
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I'm not convinced, I had one that survived about 10 years off total neglect with me, before it went to @Gill.

My guess is it is one of those plants that you just need to leave, and eventually it will grow away.

The water would never have been more than 4 dGH, or the conductivity more than 150microS, and the substrate started as sand.

You can see it in the middle of the tank in the "football of Bolbitis" picture.

bolbitis_feb2016_web_zpsbqqmfvrr-jpg-82928-jpg.jpg

cheers Darrel
 
jaypeecee said:
Hi @Onoma1

OK, this could be interesting. What is the GH (and pH) of the tank water in which you tried to grow Staurogyne Repens? According to Dennerle, it requires 10 - 25 dGH and pH 6 - 7.

JPC
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If mentioned that I may not actually test would you judge me 🙄?

I went off my water company analysis which I posted somewhere on the forum...will dig it out in a sec. I run two tanks one with ADA Africa (over a year old but still may lower the ph) and another with a dirted substrate with John Innes No3.

Buce and Frogbit hate the tank with ADA soil but do well in the dirted tank.
 
Onoma1 said:
I went off my water company analysis which I posted somewhere on the forum...will dig it out in a
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Hardness Level Soft
Hardness Clarke 2.94 Clarke
Aluminium <10.6 200 µg Al/l
Calcium 8.89 mg Ca/l
Residual chlorine - Total 1.05 mg/l
Residual chlorine - Free 0.97 mg/l
Coliform bacteria 0 0 number/100ml
Colour <1.11 20 mg/l Pt/Co scale
Conductivity 144 2500 uS/cm at 20oC
Copper 0.0525 2 mg Cu/l
E.coli 0 0 number/100ml
Iron <14.5 200 µg Fe/l
Lead <0.647 10 µg Pb/l
Magnesium 4.72 mg Mg/l
Manganese 4.88 50 µg Mn/l
Nitrate <1.51 50 mg NO3/l
Sodium 12.9
 
Onoma1 said:
Hardness Level Soft
Hardness Clarke 2.94 Clarke
Aluminium <10.6 200 µg Al/l
Calcium 8.89 mg Ca/l
Residual chlorine - Total 1.05 mg/l
Residual chlorine - Free 0.97 mg/l
Coliform bacteria 0 0 number/100ml
Colour <1.11 20 mg/l Pt/Co scale
Conductivity 144 2500 uS/cm at 20oC
Copper 0.0525 2 mg Cu/l
E.coli 0 0 number/100ml
Iron <14.5 200 µg Fe/l
Lead <0.647 10 µg Pb/l
Magnesium 4.72 mg Mg/l
Manganese 4.88 50 µg Mn/l
Nitrate <1.51 50 mg NO3/l
Sodium 12.9
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Hi @Onoma1

Thanks for the data. You do indeed have soft water. Just to put the above figures in context, here are some figures for my tap water (in East Berkshire):

Calcium 121.16 mg/l (mean)
Magnesium 4.45 mg/l (mean)
General Hardness 15.4 dGH

Even though our magnesium figures are very similar, our calcium figures are very different. Your hardness figure of 2.94 Clarke is equivalent to 2.36 dGH. My tap water GH is 15.4 dGH. According to Dennerle, Staurogyne Repens needs 10 - 25 dGH. Clearly, your figure of 2.36 dGH falls well outside this range. So, your conclusion that "...it just doesn't seem to grow in my tanks. I have always put this down to it not thriving in soft water" may well be correct.

JPC
 
Hi all,
jaypeecee said:
You do indeed have soft water. Just to put the above figures in context, here are some figures for my tap water (in East Berkshire):

Calcium 121.16 mg/l (mean)
Magnesium 4.45 mg/l (mean)
General Hardness 15.4 dGH
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You are going to have similar figures all over the South and East of England, where the aquifers are predominately limestone (and often chalk).

cheers Darrel
 
Matt @ ScapeEasy said:
Java Fern is not as easy as most people think in my experience. I often also recommend people to use it as close to the light source as they can when they are struggling as this has halved in many cases leading me to think it likes stronger lighting than most...
Click to expand...

Hi Matt,

According to the Dennerle site, Java Fern can be grown in water with GH from 0 - 20 dH. And "Low to medium lighting is completely sufficient, although it also grows well under strong lighting". Of course, what is meant by low, medium and strong lighting is open to interpretation!

JPC
 
Hi all,
jaypeecee said:
According to the Dennerle site, Java Fern can be grown in water with GH from 0 - 20 dH. And "Low to medium lighting is completely sufficient, although it also grows well under strong lighting". Of course, what is meant by low, medium and strong lighting is open to interpretation!
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I've not particulalrly noticed issues with light, but even the "ordinary type" definitely needs more nutrients than my tanks normally provide, and my guess would be more hardness.

In the tanks I probably used to have ten times more Java Fern than Bolbitis, and now its definitely the other way around.

cheers Darrel
 
Matt @ ScapeEasy said:
Java Fern is not as easy as most people think in my experience. I often also recommend people to use it as close to the light source as they can when they are struggling as this has halved in many cases leading me to think it likes stronger lighting than most...
Click to expand...
I have some Java Fern which must be 3 years old now. It just survives, it is still the same size as ,possibly slightly smaller than) when I bought it. The plants don't look deficient, they grow new leaves and occasional plantlets but it never actually gets to look like the lush dense forests you sometimes see.

I have quite hard water (GH12/KH5) and have often wondered whether the hardness stops it growing but I also have some of Tropica's windolev variety in my shrimp tank (which is cut with about 1/3rd distilled water) and that does the same.

Ferts are / have been reasonably high and I have tried moving it to high flow areas, low flow areas, nearer the light, in shaded areas... But always the same, surviving but not thriving.

I also have a similar issue with the other stupidly easy, will survive anything plant, Amazon Swords.

Crypts, limnophilia sessiflora, Anubias all flourishing but not those two easy plants.
 
jameson_uk said:
I also have a similar issue with the other stupidly easy, will survive anything plant, Amazon Swords.
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Hi @jameson_uk

It would appear that there are two types of Amazon Sword:

E. amazonicus GH 0 - 20dGH, pH 5 - 8
E. bleherae GH 10 - 20 dGH, pH 5 - 9

(data taken from Dennerle Plant Database)

Perhaps the first of these plants is what some people buy and it is uncritical of water hardness - unlike the second one. It was definitely the second one that I most recently had. I tried reducing the light falling on it by progressively shading it but all to no avail. I did this because I was concerned that it may be receiving too much light. I also tried using Seachem Flourish Tabs. No joy.

JPC
 
jaypeecee said:
Hi @jameson_uk

It would appear that there are two types of Amazon Sword:

E. amazonicus GH 0 - 20dGH, pH 5 - 8
E. bleherae GH 10 - 20 dGH, pH 5 - 9

(data taken from Dennerle Plant Database)

Perhaps the first of these plants is what some people buy and it is uncritical of water hardness - unlike the second one. It was definitely the second one that I most recently had. I tried reducing the light falling on it by progressively shading it but all to no avail. I did this because I was concerned that it may be receiving too much light. I also tried using Seachem Flourish Tabs. No joy.

JPC
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My GH is 12 so in both ranges ( although this I guess isn't that meaningful as it could all be magnesium or calcium or a mixture).

These were the first plants I got (based on them being indestructible) and I got some pretty big plants which did ok for a while but then went the same way as the Java Fern and I know have one tiny plant left. I do suspect some of this might have been down to the substrate not being deep enough although they did spread quite large roots.

I kind of gave up worrying about them and trying to get them to grow but I seem to have more time round the fish tank currently....
 
jameson_uk said:
My GH is 12 so in both ranges ( although this I guess isn't that meaningful as it could all be magnesium or calcium or a mixture).
Click to expand...

Hi @jameson_uk

You can see an analysis of your tap water if you download a full water quality report from your water company's web site. Well worth doing. It will show you figures for calcium, magnesium and a whole lot more. I see that you are in Birmingham so you possibly get your water from Severn Trent. Just go to their site and follow the links. Easy peasy! It would be very interesting to know what your calcium and magnesium figures are.

JPC
 
jaypeecee said:
Hi @jameson_uk

You can see an analysis of your tap water if you download a full water quality report from your water company's web site. Well worth doing. It will show you figures for calcium, magnesium and a whole lot more. I see that you are in Birmingham so you possibly get your water from Severn Trent. Just go to their site and follow the links. Easy peasy! It would be very interesting to know what your calcium and magnesium figures are.

JPC
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There is a thread somewhere about my water (is about magnesium). My water is from South Staffs and comes from North of Birmingham. It is apparently abnormally high in magnesium for UK water. So my water is relatively hard but I don't actually get much limescale.
 
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